djs76
Conductor
Posts: 109
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Post by djs76 on Feb 9, 2023 16:30:33 GMT
With the recent withdrawal of route 271, we will no longer see buses terminating at Highgate Village (well, not at the old 271 stand anyway). This got me thinking about the number of old terminus and curtailment points that are no longer in use. Just off the top of my head in my old stomping ground of north London I could think of the following:
Winchmore Hill, Green Dragon Lane - used by the 123 many years ago and for shorts on the 29 and W2 after that. Would be a useful short turn for the 329 in times of disruption.
Upper Edmonton, Park Road - I don't think this was used too regularly.
Barnet, Arkley Hotel - not sure if this still exists since the 307 was diverted to the hospital.
Enfield Lock Station - looks as though there is still a stand on Bradley Road but not sure when this was last used. Certain journeys on the old 135 route extended from Brimsdown used this but that was about 40 years ago!
Carterhatch - is this ever used anymore? Looks like the stand still exists but not sure it sees any use.
I'm sure there are many, many more.
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Post by kmkcheng on Feb 9, 2023 17:15:56 GMT
With the recent withdrawal of route 271, we will no longer see buses terminating at Highgate Village (well, not at the old 271 stand anyway). This got me thinking about the number of old terminus and curtailment points that are no longer in use. Just off the top of my head in my old stomping ground of north London I could think of the following: Winchmore Hill, Green Dragon Lane - used by the 123 many years ago and for shorts on the 29 and W2 after that. Would be a useful short turn for the 329 in times of disruption. Upper Edmonton, Park Road - I don't think this was used too regularly. Barnet, Arkley Hotel - not sure if this still exists since the 307 was diverted to the hospital. Enfield Lock Station - looks as though there is still a stand on Bradley Road but not sure when this was last used. Certain journeys on the old 135 route extended from Brimsdown used this but that was about 40 years ago! Carterhatch - is this ever used anymore? Looks like the stand still exists but not sure it sees any use. I'm sure there are many, many more. Stanmore Church - used by the 251 before it curtailed at Edgware in 1993. Also used for a time more recently by UNO’s 615 before that turned into a loop working in Stanmore area and then withdrawn. Stand is still there for any curtailed 340 and H12 Wembley stadium station - was used by 224 before that was curtailed to Alperton. Believe it has turned into a normal stop for the extended 440 (Turnham Green bound) |
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Post by towerman on Feb 9, 2023 17:53:04 GMT
Used to be a termination point at The Horse & Wells pub on Woodford New Rd,used by trolley bus route 675 & it’s replacement 275.
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Feb 9, 2023 17:57:44 GMT
I think 634 uses Arkley Hotel
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 9, 2023 18:28:18 GMT
The Limehouse, Burdett Road, stand. This was the regular terminus for the 86 until September 1982 when the route was cut back to Stratford, although it returned there from April 1983 until October 1984 and a Sunday service persisted until May 1991.
The stand was also used by the 395 Rotherhithe Tunnel minibus route from October 1999 until 28th April 2006, after which the route was withdrawn without replacement. The stand is substantial, and the 395 minibuses always looked a little lost in there.
The stand is still available for curtailments.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 9, 2023 18:52:14 GMT
Used to be a termination point at The Horse & Wells pub on Woodford New Rd,used by trolley bus route 675 & it’s replacement 275. This was a purpose-built stand for the tolleybuses. The Woodford Urban District Council had fiercely resisted the municipal trams, which were forced to turn at the boundary on Woodford New Road. When London Transport sought to replace the trams with trolleybuses, ideally they would have continued to at least Woodford Green, half a mile further on, but Woodford's residents (whose MP at the time was one Winston Churchill) were equally opposed. The solution was to buy a small piece of land at the end of Oak Hill from the Conservators of Epping Forest - in return for which London Transport had to donate a similarly-sized piece of land to the Conservators "in perpetuity"! On this a purpose-built trolleybus terminus was constructed. It was first used in October 1936 by the 623 trolleybus, which operated to Manor House where it connected with the recently-extended Piccadilly Line (the 123 bus is a direct descendant of the 623 and still follows the same route between Waterworks Corner and Tottenham Hale). The 625 to Winchmore Hill joined it in May 1938, and the 681 to Bloomsbury in June 1939. The 623 and 625 trolleybuses were withdrawn in April 1960 (the 581 had been withdrawn the year before, replaced by an enhanced service on the 38a bus route), replaced by the 123 and 275 bus routes. The 123 was diverted at Waterworks Corner to Ilford from the outset, whilst the 275 did what the trolleybuses should have done and ran through to Woodford Green. The stand is now used as an overspill parking lot for the car dealership across the road. It is not needed anymore as curtailed buses can turn nearby at the roundabouts at Waterworks Corner and Woodford Green.  Old Trolleybus Terminus, Woodford by Julian Walker, on Flickr  Old Trolleybus Terminus at Woodford, Napier Arms by Julian Walker, on Flickr  Old Trolleybus Terminus at Woodford, Napier Arms by Julian Walker, on Flickr |
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Post by danorak on Feb 9, 2023 18:55:11 GMT
There are some where it's now hard to believe buses turned there. The old 121 terminus at Enfield Lock RSA Tavern, only accessible via a narrow road springs to mind. And the neat little triangle outside the George in Farnborough where the 47 turned for many years.
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Post by borneobus on Feb 9, 2023 19:04:46 GMT
The Limehouse, Burdett Road, stand. This was the regular terminus for the 86 until September 1982 when the route was cut back to Stratford, although it returned there from April 1983 until October 1984 and a Sunday service persisted until May 1991. The stand was also used by the 395 Rotherhithe Tunnel minibus route from October 1999 until 28th April 2006, after which the route was withdrawn without replacement. The stand is substantial, and the 395 minibuses always looked a little lost in there. The stand is still available for curtailments. From the dim and distant past I recall the 86 blinded to "Limehouse - Londoner" - assume that this refers to a long-gone pub - wonder if this is linked to the Burdett Road stand...? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 9, 2023 19:36:34 GMT
There are some where it's now hard to believe buses turned there. The old 121 terminus at Enfield Lock RSA Tavern, only accessible via a narrow road springs to mind. And the neat little triangle outside the George in Farnborough where the 47 turned for many years. I know the 47 stand wasn't suitable for OPO buses but I wonder how many other stands always weren't? |
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Post by greenboy on Feb 9, 2023 19:49:01 GMT
There are some where it's now hard to believe buses turned there. The old 121 terminus at Enfield Lock RSA Tavern, only accessible via a narrow road springs to mind. And the neat little triangle outside the George in Farnborough where the 47 turned for many years. I know the 47 stand wasn't suitable for OPO buses but I wonder how many other stands always weren't? Needed a conductor to assist with reversing, the 51 and then the 229 also used the stand. The Norwood Junction stand in Station Road used by the 40,75 and 196 was also unsuitable for OPO buses because of reversing. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 9, 2023 20:02:22 GMT
I know the 47 stand wasn't suitable for OPO buses but I wonder how many other stands always weren't? Needed a conductor to assist with reversing, the 51 and then the 229 also used the stand. The Norwood Junction stand in Station Road used by the 40,75 and 196 was also unsuitable for OPO buses because of reversing. 180 at Lower Sydenham aswell which led to the extension to Bell Green which needed SDs hence the 181. |
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Post by Catford94 on Feb 9, 2023 20:19:15 GMT
There must be several places where a stand has moved - Eltham Station replaced Eltham Well Hall Station; Lewisham Bus Station replaced Rennell Street / Molesworth Street (round the sides of the 'Odeon' cinema - another offside stand that wasn't suitable for OPO buses, and a front entrance bus would not have been able to turn right on to the 'Duke of Cambridge' stops and stop with the entrance at the right place) - and the 1978 version of Lewisham Bus Station has been replaced twice. Bromley, North Street has been replaced by a new stand at Bromley North Station. Surrey Quays Shopping Centre replaced Surrey Quays (Surrey Docks) Station. Orpington Goodmead Road (261) and Perry Hall Road (208) replaced St Andrew's Drive 94 terminus. In Woolwich, General Gordon Place used to be a stand for routes including the 54 and is now pedestrianised, Hare Street is no longer a stand, the Free Ferry (route 75) turning circle and Parsons Hill (trolleybus 696 / 698 and their replacement routes) are no longer there. Several garages that were terminus / turning points have closed, of course - including a few country area / London Country garages that were terminus points for red buses - Swanley, Leatherhead and possibly a few others. And there must be a lot of places where red buses used to run outside what's now the TFL area.
The circular 'terminus' arrangement along Victoria Embankment (A loop rather than a terminus) inherited from the London County Council Tramways network, lasted until 1987 when route 109 went OPO. The Horse Guards Avenue terminus on the embankment (for routes that didn't do the full loop) has also gone. Some tram replacement routes terminated at Cannon Street Station, which is no longer used, and the Farringdon Street, Stonecutter Street stand is now pedestrianised.
Lower Sydenham Station (180) is no longer used - it involved a reverse turn, by-passed when new single deck OPO route 181 replaced the southern end of the route and went under the low bridge. Welling 'Guy, Earl of Warwick' stopped being a bus terminus in the 1960s. Peckham 'Lord Hill' (on Hill Street) was abandoned when Peckham Garage with bus stands in front of it opened. New Cross (Clifton Rise) and Old Kent Road (Canal Bridge) - the latter actually on Rotherhithe New Road, the terminus points of route 202, are no longer there.
The long established bus stand on Cornwall Road, Waterloo, became Waterloo (RA) Garage.
The Smithfield tram / trolleybus terminus lasted until 2001 on route 153.
Rotherhithe Tunnel route 82 had a terminus stand built as part of the Amos Estate, now the front part of the car park. It was later extended to somewhere that's now under the Rotherhithe Tunnel roundabout. The Stepney East Station terminus is also no longer used. There must be quite a few in the 'docklands' patch that have been lost to redevelopment, Blackwall Tunnel, Delta Metal Works (185), Royal Albert Dock, Ferndale (section on the 101 and peak hour 147), West India Dock (trolleybuses then 5A), and quite a few others.
Some historic terminus points are still there as stands for short workings, but not scheduled terminus points - for example Old Ford, Ruston Street (once route 8), Camden Town, Camden Gardens (once routes 3 and 53) - at one time, Old Ford had a canteen as it was a bit of a distance from Clay Hall Garage. The 53's other traditional terminus at Plumstead Common, Warwick Terrace is now only used by school route 625, and the Plumstead Common 'Woodman' stand is no longer used.
I'm sure there's plenty more... |
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Post by Catford94 on Feb 9, 2023 20:29:30 GMT
Waterloo Station (Collonades) was used by some of the Red Arrow routes, that's now part of the Waterloo Road underground station entrance.
At Liverpool Street Station, the Bishopsgate U-turn for buses terminating from the north - was used by trolleybuses and their replacement routes; the stand outside Broad Street Station is no longer there, and Finsbury Circus (historically route 133) has occasionally been revived when there's building work going on at Liverpool Street bus station.
Ladbroke Grove 'Eagle' (route 15) is no longer a stand.
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Post by danorak on Feb 9, 2023 22:20:13 GMT
Some good ones there from @catford94. Both New Cross stands of the 202/P5 have fallen out of use: there was a turning circle in Pagnell Street for the P5 that is no longer used which replaced the old Achilles Street one.
Equally, when the 56 replaced the 277 to Smithfield, it ran through the market to a new stand at West Smithfield that did not last long before the current arrangements were introduced.
I'm not sure whether the Thamesmead Alsike Road terminus remains in use as a curtailment point but it was used by the 177, 178 and I think the 380. I believe there was a Purland Road terminus used by peak journeys on the 54 to Woolwich Industrial Estate which fell into disuse and has been severed by a flyover.
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Post by danorak on Feb 9, 2023 22:33:31 GMT
Another great, disappeared terminus is Victoria and Albert Docks. Another classic ex-trolleybus turning circle, it was very much the end of the line: it was only in 1986 or 87 that the 278 was extended beyond it over the then single track Connaught Bridge to North Woolwich when traffic lights were installed. I don't think any trace of it remains.
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