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Post by matthieu1221 on Nov 21, 2023 17:16:44 GMT
As much as I know people love the good old blinds here i guess we now know how much money is being saved by finally moving on to electronic displays like the rest of the world! when the units cost 4 or 5 times as much as smart blinds? It's a one time cost.
In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2023 17:41:48 GMT
when the units cost 4 or 5 times as much as smart blinds? In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
Thats not how they work, unless they are inserts |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 21, 2023 17:55:09 GMT
As much as I know people love the good old blinds here i guess we now know how much money is being saved by finally moving on to electronic displays like the rest of the world! when the units cost 4 or 5 times as much as smart blinds? But in the long run it's far cheaper hence the rest of the world moving to electronic displays long ago, even ex London buses are converted. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 21, 2023 18:02:18 GMT
Have they worked out having such a short express route is pretty pointless? I don't think the length matters too much, would there be a lot of demand for instance to travel from Sutton to Bromley, or from Croydon to Sidcup? The SL2 I expect will be mostly used for shorter journeys, since the Overground is available between Walthamstow and Barking. The main point of the superloop really is to make orbital journeys in outer London faster, regardless of how far you are travelling. There probably isn't much demand to travel all the way from Harrow to North Finchley, but the SL10 will improve journeys for passengers going from Harrow to Kingsbury for example. However I can see the SL5 being popular for travelling specifically between Croydon and Bromley, and so a slightly less direct route might be preferable if it allows DDs to be used. For example going via Manor Park Road and South Eden Park Road. The SL5 looks like a dogs dinner to me, surely any express route between Croydon and Bromley should go via the old 725/6 route but the SL5 can't because it would take custom from Tramlink. May as well extend the SL3 from Bromley South via Park Langley to Beckenham Junction to connect with Tramlink and drop the SL5 idea. |
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 21, 2023 18:19:18 GMT
I don't think the length matters too much, would there be a lot of demand for instance to travel from Sutton to Bromley, or from Croydon to Sidcup? The SL2 I expect will be mostly used for shorter journeys, since the Overground is available between Walthamstow and Barking. The main point of the superloop really is to make orbital journeys in outer London faster, regardless of how far you are travelling. There probably isn't much demand to travel all the way from Harrow to North Finchley, but the SL10 will improve journeys for passengers going from Harrow to Kingsbury for example. However I can see the SL5 being popular for travelling specifically between Croydon and Bromley, and so a slightly less direct route might be preferable if it allows DDs to be used. For example going via Manor Park Road and South Eden Park Road. The SL5 looks like a dogs dinner to me, surely any express route between Croydon and Bromley should go via the old 725/6 route but the SL5 can't because it would take custom from Tramlink. May as well extend the SL3 from Bromley South via Park Langley to Beckenham Junction to connect with Tramlink and drop the SL5 idea. That would definitely be the most cost effective solution, as it would only require 2 or 3 extra buses to be added to the PVR of the SL3, and would mean no extra routes would be standing in Bromley. |
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Post by wirewiper on Nov 21, 2023 18:29:53 GMT
I don't think the length matters too much, would there be a lot of demand for instance to travel from Sutton to Bromley, or from Croydon to Sidcup? The SL2 I expect will be mostly used for shorter journeys, since the Overground is available between Walthamstow and Barking. The main point of the superloop really is to make orbital journeys in outer London faster, regardless of how far you are travelling. There probably isn't much demand to travel all the way from Harrow to North Finchley, but the SL10 will improve journeys for passengers going from Harrow to Kingsbury for example. However I can see the SL5 being popular for travelling specifically between Croydon and Bromley, and so a slightly less direct route might be preferable if it allows DDs to be used. For example going via Manor Park Road and South Eden Park Road. The SL5 looks like a dogs dinner to me, surely any express route between Croydon and Bromley should go via the old 725/6 route but the SL5 can't because it would take custom from Tramlink. May as well extend the SL3 from Bromley South via Park Langley to Beckenham Junction to connect with Tramlink and drop the SL5 idea. The proposed route, whilst it looks longer distance-wise, might actually be the quickest - buses could lose time in Beckenham and Addiscombe if they follow the old 725/726 route. Beckenham already has good and frequent links to both Bromley and Croydon so I am not convinced the SL5 needs to go that way. I recall seeing a post suggesting the proposed SL5 would have an off-peak end-to-end journey time of just 25 minutes - that will really change perceptions of travel between Croydon and Bromley. Even more so if Go-Ahead wins the contract and operates Irizar ie-trams. |
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Post by WH241 on Nov 21, 2023 18:34:16 GMT
when the units cost 4 or 5 times as much as smart blinds? It's a one time cost.
In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
That wouldn’t work as most garages blind buses for the new incoming route and existing routes based there. Having blinds from other operators would be pretty limiting and would mean buses being route bound. What can be costly with blinds is if routes are won soon after buses have been previously reblinded for other changes. |
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Post by greenboy on Nov 21, 2023 20:22:21 GMT
The SL5 looks like a dogs dinner to me, surely any express route between Croydon and Bromley should go via the old 725/6 route but the SL5 can't because it would take custom from Tramlink. May as well extend the SL3 from Bromley South via Park Langley to Beckenham Junction to connect with Tramlink and drop the SL5 idea. The proposed route, whilst it looks longer distance-wise, might actually be the quickest - buses could lose time in Beckenham and Addiscombe if they follow the old 725/726 route. Beckenham already has good and frequent links to both Bromley and Croydon so I am not convinced the SL5 needs to go that way. I recall seeing a post suggesting the proposed SL5 would have an off-peak end-to-end journey time of just 25 minutes - that will really change perceptions of travel between Croydon and Bromley. Even more so if Go-Ahead wins the contract and operates Irizar ie-trams. I'm pretty sure that if Tramlink didn't exist the SL5 would go via the old 725/726 route and there is also the matter of stand space in Bromley. |
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Post by cl54 on Nov 21, 2023 22:29:25 GMT
when the units cost 4 or 5 times as much as smart blinds? It's a one time cost.
In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
It has been shown that with a maintenance contract from McKenna smart blinds are cheaper than LED displays. Inserts and repairs are included in the maintenance contract. It's interesting that Stagecoach has opted for smart blinds in their latest electric buses. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 22, 2023 1:50:18 GMT
It's a one time cost. In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
It has been shown that with a maintenance contract from McKenna smart blinds are cheaper than LED displays. Inserts and repairs are included in the maintenance contract. It's interesting that Stagecoach has opted for smart blinds in their latest electric buses. Have you got a maintenance contract from a LED supplier to make a comparison with? |
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Post by MKAY315 on Nov 22, 2023 7:24:28 GMT
The proposed route, whilst it looks longer distance-wise, might actually be the quickest - buses could lose time in Beckenham and Addiscombe if they follow the old 725/726 route. Beckenham already has good and frequent links to both Bromley and Croydon so I am not convinced the SL5 needs to go that way. I recall seeing a post suggesting the proposed SL5 would have an off-peak end-to-end journey time of just 25 minutes - that will really change perceptions of travel between Croydon and Bromley. Even more so if Go-Ahead wins the contract and operates Irizar ie-trams. I'm pretty sure that if Tramlink didn't exist the SL5 would go via the old 725/726 route and there is also the matter of stand space in Bromley. The only suitable stand space in Bromley I can think of is the Crown around the Common |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 22, 2023 8:31:31 GMT
when the units cost 4 or 5 times as much as smart blinds? It's a one time cost. In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
Ideal world? Clearly no thinking was done here. Existing smart or manual blinds would be no use to another operator due to the fact the blinds will contain 99% of the previous operators routes plus the operator paid for the blinds. Why would an operator give another operator blind stock for free ? |
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Post by lonmark on Nov 22, 2023 13:42:19 GMT
TfL finally correct it for route SL10... click here |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Nov 22, 2023 22:50:59 GMT
It's a one time cost. In an ideal world, smart blinds wouldn't be an issue if blinds were passed on to the new operator when a route changed operator.
Ideal world? Clearly no thinking was done here. Existing smart or manual blinds would be no use to another operator due to the fact the blinds will contain 99% of the previous operators routes plus the operator paid for the blinds. Why would an operator give another operator blind stock for free ? Looks like my edit to expand upon my initial thought to the wider inefficiencies of franchising didn't work for some reason! My bad, my initial point makes no sense alone.
In short in the edit that didn't send I went on to state that a change in the franchising model would perhaps be more cost-effective in which routes would be tendered in batches like in Manchester. A step further which I think is worth looking into (though I suspect we bus fans would hate it because of the standardisation!) would be Singapore where are infrastructure from depots to buses is publicly owned and shifted around operators when contracts change -- blinds for instance also being a part of this (though Singapore has long gone for electronic displays anyway!). Operators don't have to deal with anything to do with vehicle purchases or garage acquisition/expansion, or worry about being able to tender for a route because they don't have a garage nearby. However the downside of this is a lot of the cost does get passed down to what would be TfL here (LTA being their equivalent) which I don't think would be very eager to have to spend their money on this contrary to in Singapore where they recognise a benefit in owning and thus having control on all the infrastructure.
But all this is very off topic to the Superloop!
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Nov 23, 2023 17:11:09 GMT
Timetable for the SL10, all ready for Saturday. Estimated Journey time of 50 minutes from Harrow to North Finchley. The confirmed PVR should be 12. Attachments:
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