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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 18, 2023 8:03:29 GMT
LTs are not ideal but my post was more about the fact they are no different to other hybrids in terms environmental impact. I think they actually were at the time, many were found to be running in full diesel mode at the time and not storing and using electricity, effectively making them diesels which is worse than your standard Hybrid. I'd hope many since then have been fixed. Yes the ones on the 24 we said to be worse then the VLAs on the 176 along Charing Cross Road. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 19, 2023 0:43:40 GMT
My exact thoughts on politics also , except I've come to the realisation that red or blue they are all full of poo 😂 but absolutely bang on statement . As for the LTs I they should be kept on until at least 2062 like the RMs were 😉 I wasn't but I am a big fan now love the uniqueness and they don't half pull off very quick if you get a heavy footed decent driver and are now like a London Icon I guess , and the problem with the 358 and opportunity charging this problem is going to occur in lots and lots of places in the future , just think how many bus terminals there are in London alone , how will this work with all different routes plus running late due to traffic etc ? And for major transport , are all warehouse hubs going to have charging facilities for lorries to sit for 8 hours to get a full charge ? Hybrid is the way forward for commercial vehicles at the moment anyway I think . They would simply last nowhere near 2062 as they aren't built like the RM's. Once their current contract finish on most of the LT routes, I'll be looking forward to whatever replaces them, providing the mayor at that point doesn't get any ideas to build his/her own bus. I cannot see any reason why they could not last till 2062. The problem is, many vehicles are culled way before their time, especially in London |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 19, 2023 2:23:54 GMT
Just the fact that the 227 is a shorter route so presumably would be able to manage with one charger? That said there may be other factors involved that I'm not aware of. Aren't the buses on the Fastrack contract going to be using opportunity charging? Quick one for the bus drivers. Are stand times proportionate to running time, IE if your journey takes 90 minutes, would you expect to get 50% more stand time than if it took 60 minutes? No it it not, there is some rules over distance and time driven, but many London routes would not qualify for that. Routes short like 379 at one end only requires blind change then off. |
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 19, 2023 8:59:46 GMT
They would simply last nowhere near 2062 as they aren't built like the RM's. Once their current contract finish on most of the LT routes, I'll be looking forward to whatever replaces them, providing the mayor at that point doesn't get any ideas to build his/her own bus. I cannot see any reason why they could not last till 2062. The problem is, many vehicles are culled way before their time, especially in London Historically, the RTs and Routemasters were able to survive for so long because they were extensively (and expensively) rebuilt every few years, effectively emerging as new vehicles. The whole set-up at Aldenham was designed around a bespoke overhaul facility for the Routemaster project - if you think New Bus for London was a vanity project for Mayor Johnson, the Routemaster project was a huge ego trip for post-war London Transport. The working life of the RT and Routemaster was also extended by the poor performance and premature withdrawal of unreliable 1970s vehicles (although part of the failure was due to a shortage of a spare parts, a lot was also down to London Transport's engineering not being geared up to deal with the new types). Also there was a lot of political fudging about removing the last Routemasters from busy central London routes due as fare collection and change-giving by drivers was unacceptably slow. It was the move to flat fares and Oyster card, coupled with increasing concern about the safety of open rear platforms, that finally killed off Routemaster operation. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 19, 2023 11:19:54 GMT
I cannot see any reason why they could not last till 2062. The problem is, many vehicles are culled way before their time, especially in London Historically, the RTs and Routemasters were able to survive for so long because they were extensively (and expensively) rebuilt every few years, effectively emerging as new vehicles. The whole set-up at Aldenham was designed around a bespoke overhaul facility for the Routemaster project - if you think New Bus for London was a vanity project for Mayor Johnson, the Routemaster project was a huge ego trip for post-war London Transport. The working life of the RT and Routemaster was also extended by the poor performance and premature withdrawal of unreliable 1970s vehicles (although part of the failure was due to a shortage of a spare parts, a lot was also down to London Transport's engineering not being geared up to deal with the new types). Also there was a lot of political fudging about removing the last Routemasters from busy central London routes due as fare collection and change-giving by drivers was unacceptably slow. It was the move to flat fares and Oyster card, coupled with increasing concern about the safety of open rear platforms, that finally killed off Routemaster operation. I would not entirely say it was an ego trip from LT. There was a lot of skilled staff available for fixing vehicles from the war. The LT's could be extensively be rebuilt but who in this day would sanction this kind of thing. It simply just would not be cost effective. Even down to the DMS's being unreliable etc it was down to more the case of the unions. Some engineers that I worked with at Stagecoach who were there from LT days talked about the stories of how the unions controlled everything then. Similar approaches at British Leyland then ended up seeing engineers in other countries like Germany willing to learn and upgrade without demanding extortionate pay & conditions and in the end, had a much better product than what was coming out of the UK. |
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Post by riverside on Dec 19, 2023 21:10:46 GMT
I cannot see any reason why they could not last till 2062. The problem is, many vehicles are culled way before their time, especially in London Historically, the RTs and Routemasters were able to survive for so long because they were extensively (and expensively) rebuilt every few years, effectively emerging as new vehicles. The whole set-up at Aldenham was designed around a bespoke overhaul facility for the Routemaster project - if you think New Bus for London was a vanity project for Mayor Johnson, the Routemaster project was a huge ego trip for post-war London Transport. The working life of the RT and Routemaster was also extended by the poor performance and premature withdrawal of unreliable 1970s vehicles (although part of the failure was due to a shortage of a spare parts, a lot was also down to London Transport's engineering not being geared up to deal with the new types). Also there was a lot of political fudging about removing the last Routemasters from busy central London routes due as fare collection and change-giving by drivers was unacceptably slow. It was the move to flat fares and Oyster card, coupled with increasing concern about the safety of open rear platforms, that finally killed off Routemaster operation. The Routemaster was not a huge ego trip for post war London Transport. It was a planned part of the evolution of London bus design by skilled professionals who after much trialling produced a bus that more than proved its worth to the people of London. Unfortunately the reliability of London buses in the 1970s would probably have been better if the FRM project had been allowed to progress beyond one model. Unfortunately it was killed off by British Leyland's absorption of AEC and Park Royal Vehicles and by the government's insistence that the 75% Bus Grant would only be available for 'off the peg' buses. I for one am grateful I was able to enjoy the heyday of the Routemaster. As a ten year old boy I particularly remember on Saturday 1 July 1967 going to the Brook Green Hotel stand in Hammersmith to see the first day in service of Riverside garage's brand new RMLs on the 255. A journey at speed down the Kingston by Pass on the 72 to Tolworth or later Chessington Zoo on a Routemaster was exhilarating. |
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Dec 20, 2023 17:43:42 GMT
Bus shelters have been installed at Amanda Way/Windsor Terrace (near Gallions Reach Shopping Park) ready for the SL2 in March. Attachments:
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 20, 2023 17:44:26 GMT
Bus shelters have been installed at Amanda Way/Windsor Terrace (near Gallions Reach Shopping Park) ready for the SL2 in March. What a miserable bus stop. |
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Dec 20, 2023 17:55:39 GMT
Bus shelters have been installed at Amanda Way/Windsor Terrace (near Gallions Reach Shopping Park) ready for the SL2 in March. What a miserable bus stop. Agree. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 20, 2023 18:27:35 GMT
What a miserable bus stop. Agree. I don't get how hard it would have been to send the route through the shopping park. The traffic is never that bad, and if it is then the North Circular Road is jammed up anyway. A lot of focus has been given to the Barking-Ilford section of the route but I think it needs to be mentioned how fast the Barking-North Woolwich section can flare up as well. Sometimes it can take 20-25 minutes just to get from Gallions Reach to Beckton Triangle and this route seems to just be sticking to the North Circular too instead of going down Jenkins Lane and Claps Gate Lane like the 366 does. |
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Post by WH241 on Dec 20, 2023 18:33:09 GMT
I don't get how hard it would have been to send the route through the shopping park. The traffic is never that bad, and if it is then the North Circular Road is jammed up anyway. A lot of focus has been given to the Barking-Ilford section of the route but I think it needs to be mentioned how fast the Barking-North Woolwich section can flare up as well. Sometimes it can take 20-25 minutes just to get from Gallions Reach to Beckton Triangle and this route seems to just be sticking to the North Circular too instead of going down Jenkins Lane and Claps Gate Lane like the 366 does. I have said this from the start and imagine stops at the shopping park would be well used from Ilford and Barking taking pressure off the 366. I honestly can’t see these new stops being well used especially with no interchange with other routes. |
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Post by WH241 on Dec 20, 2023 18:36:15 GMT
Bus shelters have been installed at Amanda Way/Windsor Terrace (near Gallions Reach Shopping Park) ready for the SL2 in March. Thanks for sharing the photo. I reported the stop had been installed on Sunday but was driving so wouldn’t have been able to take a photo. |
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Post by cl54 on Dec 20, 2023 18:57:17 GMT
The mayor said words of similar effect in his first turn in office. Found this rather flimsy statement on the Evening Standard website.
In 2016, a spokesperson for Mr Khan said: “Sadiq will not be making any further purchases of the New Routemasters.
"Londoners deserve a bus fleet that is greener, more affordable and more functional than these vanity buses.
It was the right thing not to order any further examples. A lot of the work on the project is reflected in the later hybrid and electric vehicles. It should be remembered that the LTs were conceived in the days before the success of Oyster and flat fares with the need to clear busy stops in Central London quickly. The rear staircase and platform see little use apart from the regulars who know they are there. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 20, 2023 19:01:41 GMT
Found this rather flimsy statement on the Evening Standard website. In 2016, a spokesperson for Mr Khan said: “Sadiq will not be making any further purchases of the New Routemasters.
"Londoners deserve a bus fleet that is greener, more affordable and more functional than these vanity buses.
It was the right thing not to order any further examples. It should be remembered that the LTs were conceived in the days before the success of Oyster and flat fares with the need to clear busy stops in Central London quickly. The rear staircase and platform see little use apart from the regulars who know they are there. Flatfares and Oyster were really taking off by 2005 3 years before Boris won. It was partly the reason the original RM came to an end as the conductors had little to do with fares with the pay before you board zone. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Dec 20, 2023 19:08:50 GMT
Found this rather flimsy statement on the Evening Standard website.
In 2016, a spokesperson for Mr Khan said: “Sadiq will not be making any further purchases of the New Routemasters.
"Londoners deserve a bus fleet that is greener, more affordable and more functional than these vanity buses.
It was the right thing not to order any further examples. A lot of the work on the project is reflected in the later hybrid and electric vehicles. It should be remembered that the LTs were conceived in the days before the success of Oyster and flat fares with the need to clear busy stops in Central London quickly. The rear staircase and platform see little use apart from the regulars who know they are there. I think you can really see the rear staircase's benefit on commuter routes as opposed to tourist routes. They're a Godsend on the EL1 and EL2 every morning as the buses can clear very quickly, especially at stops such as Barking Station where the buses will arrive crowded and people are all trying to pile off in their masses. |
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