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Post by TB123 on Jun 23, 2023 8:22:33 GMT
And go....
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Route 414
Jun 23, 2023 8:54:15 GMT
via mobile
Post by southlondonbus on Jun 23, 2023 8:54:15 GMT
If this is in response to what I said on the W route consultation I'll clarify what I was saying. I was pointing out that we have had 3 or 4 consultations after 'reviews' to improve service in outer London. I don't thinks its an understatement to say they have been somewhat lacklustre. The only real improvements have been the extensions of the 315 and 316 a few stops and the 549 going from every 90 to 60 mins.
My response to that they are probably so underwhelming as there in effect no money for improvements and that a bit more capacity could have been removed from Central then just the 16/507/521. Even Andy Byford asked would a bit less capacity be such a bad thing?.
I didn't aim to start of feverish speculation about the 414 again.
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Post by abellion on Jun 23, 2023 9:54:21 GMT
Repeating what I said yesterday... there is literally nothing left to say about the 414 which hasn't been said four million times on this forum already!
People are free to speculate about the 414 but it seems like a waste of time to me.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 23, 2023 17:48:52 GMT
Well tfl did want to get rid of the 14 last year so perhaps people banging on about the 414 being withdrawn are correct. I'm not local so I cannot say what the passenger levels are like on that corridor however I think out of all the proposals that tfl made it wasn't the worst one.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 23, 2023 18:01:23 GMT
Well tfl did want to get rid of the 14 last year so perhaps people banging on about the 414 being withdrawn are correct. I'm not local so I cannot say what the passenger levels are like on that corridor however I think out of all the proposals that tfl made it wasn't the worst one. People banging on doesn’t mean a thing! The 414 clearly serves a purpose! The way people talk on here it’s like passengers would avoid a 414 over a 14. The way I see the 414 is a short working 14. I bet if it was renumbered to a 14 and operated as per now people would stop “banging on” as you put it. We have been here before where people get worked up. Used to be the 13 was the favorite hot topic. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 23, 2023 20:50:58 GMT
Well tfl did want to get rid of the 14 last year so perhaps people banging on about the 414 being withdrawn are correct. I'm not local so I cannot say what the passenger levels are like on that corridor however I think out of all the proposals that tfl made it wasn't the worst one. People banging on doesn’t mean a thing! The 414 clearly serves a purpose! The way people talk on here it’s like passengers would avoid a 414 over a 14. The way I see the 414 is a short working 14. I bet if it was renumbered to a 14 and operated as per now people would stop “banging on” as you put it. We have been here before where people get worked up. Used to be the 13 was the favorite hot topic. Was wondering the same thing, if people don't have an issue with the 38s short journeys to Hackney Central, then what's the difference with the 414? |
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Post by londonbuses on Jun 23, 2023 20:54:50 GMT
People banging on doesn’t mean a thing! The 414 clearly serves a purpose! The way people talk on here it’s like passengers would avoid a 414 over a 14. The way I see the 414 is a short working 14. I bet if it was renumbered to a 14 and operated as per now people would stop “banging on” as you put it. We have been here before where people get worked up. Used to be the 13 was the favorite hot topic. Was wondering the same thing, if people don't have an issue with the 38s short journeys to Hackney Central, then what's the difference with the 414? Because the capacity is needed? The 14 runs at 6bph and the 414 runs at 7.5bph - a combined frequency of 13.5bph is unnecessary, around 8-10bph would suffice. If overbussing Putney Heath is an issue then this is where also combining the 74 and 430 makes sense. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 23, 2023 21:05:42 GMT
Well tfl did want to get rid of the 14 last year so perhaps people banging on about the 414 being withdrawn are correct. I'm not local so I cannot say what the passenger levels are like on that corridor however I think out of all the proposals that tfl made it wasn't the worst one. The way I see the 414 is a short working 14. Wouldn't that be a great opportunity to bin the 414 and give the 14 short workings to Hyde Park Corner. Not sure how regulated the timetable is between the two routes but surely by having one route this would eliminate large gaps between services? Honestly who would be sad if the 414 went? It has very little unique sections and therefore purpose. As I said the 14 could always have short workings (could start from Putney Heath too). Not only that but if you're in South Ken/Fulham waiting for a southbound bus going beyond Putney Bridge the 414 isn't going to be useful isn't it? The way I see it is similar to the 349 situation where it was duplicated by several other bus routes in Tottenham, and withdrawing it would have very little impact on passenger journeys. Thge only people who would be negatively impacted if the 414 was withdrawn is those travelling beyond Hyde Park Corner, however there are several bus routes that can take you beyond Hyde Park Corner, combined at a very high frequency, so binning the 414 would not only save Tfl money but has a lot less impact than the majority of changes that tfl consults on. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 23, 2023 22:14:26 GMT
There's clearly scope for rationalising the Putney routes, status quo is a very inefficient use of resources. Of course the 14 and 414 are identical all the way up to Hyde Park Corner whereas with the 74/430 there's the question of what routing at merger would take from West Brompton to South Kensington.
The Marble Arch cut back has made the 414 less wasteful but its probably only a matter of time until some further cuts to the route are made. I can't why both the 74 and 414 need to run South Kensington-Marble Arch. No point in getting rid of the route just for the sake of eliminating the number though.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 23, 2023 22:14:27 GMT
The way I see the 414 is a short working 14. Wouldn't that be a great opportunity to bin the 414 and give the 14 short workings to Hyde Park Corner. Not sure how regulated the timetable is between the two routes but surely by having one route this would eliminate large gaps between services? Honestly who would be sad if the 414 went? It has very little unique sections and therefore purpose. As I said the 14 could always have short workings (could start from Putney Heath too). Not only that but if you're in South Ken/Fulham waiting for a southbound bus going beyond Putney Bridge the 414 isn't going to be useful isn't it? The way I see it is similar to the 349 situation where it was duplicated by several other bus routes in Tottenham, and withdrawing it would have very little impact on passenger journeys. Thge only people who would be negatively impacted if the 414 was withdrawn is those travelling beyond Hyde Park Corner, however there are several bus routes that can take you beyond Hyde Park Corner, combined at a very high frequency, so binning the 414 would not only save Tfl money but has a lot less impact than the majority of changes that tfl consults on. I suspect the 414 offers much better value for money than the 14 having short workings! Not seen the latest costs but based on previous tenders GAL have been really milking the 14 with inflated prices. All that’s been said in this thread has been said time and time again! Having a dedicated thread has just brought up all what was said previously and yet the 414 is still here. |
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Post by Alexis on Jun 23, 2023 22:24:13 GMT
I think perhaps people don't realise how many passengers the 414 picks up at Marble Arch in the afternoon peak. TfL kept it running to there for a reason
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Post by londonbuses on Jun 23, 2023 22:34:39 GMT
One of the biggest issues with the 414 (for me at least) is its frequency - whether the route is necessary or not, it could easily be dropped from 7.5bph to 5bph without causing any difficulties.
Why on earth have routes like the 57 and 213 have had frequency reductions just to knock a couple of buses off their PVR when a 414 could have a more drastic PVR reduction with much less effect on passengers?
And as I have suggested many times before, I would have combined the 23 and 414 into a Westbourne Park to Putney Bridge route at the 23's frequency of 5bph, instead of the recent Central London changes to the 23. The 6 would be unchanged and the 16 would just be extended from Cricklewood to Brent Park over the 332 but the Central London section to Victoria retained.
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Route 414
Jun 23, 2023 22:40:02 GMT
via mobile
Post by northlondon83 on Jun 23, 2023 22:40:02 GMT
There's clearly scope for rationalising the Putney routes, status quo is a very inefficient use of resources. Of course the 14 and 414 are identical all the way up to Hyde Park Corner whereas with the 74/430 there's the question of what routing at merger would take from West Brompton to South Kensington. The Marble Arch cut back has made the 414 less wasteful but its probably only a matter of time until some further cuts to the route are made. I can't why both the 74 and 414 need to run South Kensington-Marble Arch. No point in getting rid of the route just for the sake of eliminating the number though. it's not really about the number but more due to the fact that it duplicates other routes. Are the 14, 22, 74 and 414 really all needed between Putney Bridge and Hyde Park Corner? Yes the first three take different routes but it seems bizarre when you also have train connections. As Alexis said that the link from Marble Arch is useful however tfl have broken a lot of links in inner London such as the withdrawal of the 23 from Hammersmith. I wouldn't be surprised to see a review of the Putney routes, like possibly withdrawing the 430 and having the 74 run from Roehampton to Marble Arch. I can see tfl wanting to remove even more routes in central London. As for the 414, it could be as simple as withdrawing then swapping the 211 and 11 routes between Fulham and Sloane Square so that the 11 retains the South Kensington to Putney Bridge link. Out of all the routes in the area, the 414 is the least desirable of the Putney routes since it doesn't even cross the Thames. If the 414 gets removed after a while people will get used to the change. The 427 had good loadings when it went to Acton but since the change the 207 has not been rammed. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 24, 2023 0:10:31 GMT
Was wondering the same thing, if people don't have an issue with the 38s short journeys to Hackney Central, then what's the difference with the 414? Because the capacity is needed? The 14 runs at 6bph and the 414 runs at 7.5bph - a combined frequency of 13.5bph is unnecessary, around 8-10bph would suffice. If overbussing Putney Heath is an issue then this is where also combining the 74 and 430 makes sense. A combined 74 & 430 could only work if the merged route was cutback - there were good reasons why the 74 lost it's section to Roehampton in favour of the new 430. Personally, that idea of re-routing the 430 to Hammersmith sounded quite a sound idea and would need no cutback to the 74 either to facilitate but of course, it's unlikely TfL would make such an improvement given it's not saving money plus it's Inner London and it's not allowed nice things by the changes they've made for years now. |
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Post by greenboy on Jun 24, 2023 6:23:47 GMT
The way I see the 414 is a short working 14. Wouldn't that be a great opportunity to bin the 414 and give the 14 short workings to Hyde Park Corner. Not sure how regulated the timetable is between the two routes but surely by having one route this would eliminate large gaps between services? Honestly who would be sad if the 414 went? It has very little unique sections and therefore purpose. As I said the 14 could always have short workings (could start from Putney Heath too). Not only that but if you're in South Ken/Fulham waiting for a southbound bus going beyond Putney Bridge the 414 isn't going to be useful isn't it? The way I see it is similar to the 349 situation where it was duplicated by several other bus routes in Tottenham, and withdrawing it would have very little impact on passenger journeys. Thge only people who would be negatively impacted if the 414 was withdrawn is those travelling beyond Hyde Park Corner, however there are several bus routes that can take you beyond Hyde Park Corner, combined at a very high frequency, so binning the 414 would not only save Tfl money but has a lot less impact than the majority of changes that tfl consults on. If the 414 was withdrawn overnight I wonder how many people would even notice, they would just get on the 14 instead or the 74 from Marble Arch. |
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