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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 29, 2023 9:09:38 GMT
Interesting subject. Kingston Bus legacy gave us the K1,K2 & K3 initially. They all replaced parts of “big bus” routes 71,152,215,216 & 281. And penetrated Sunray Estate plus giving Berrylands, Claygate, Chessington Industrial Estate and parts of Hook a more frequent service. Then came the K4/5/6. The initial K5 has now expanded and the former K6 taken over by part of the K3. K4 hasn’t changed much. Bromley area routes were never put out to mass tender. But the area already had quite a few localised routes, some ex London Country routes and some independent routes run by Metrobus. Routes like the 138,146,246,352,354 could easily have been given a letter prefix and branded Bromley Bus. It would be interesting to know why LRT decided to target Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and to a lesser extent Sutton. All those garages ( A,BX,HD & NB) suffered and one had to close eventually. Imagine if NB had retained routes like the 131 & 213 ! In a parallel universe Kingston Bus could have easily expanded and put a dent in AL’s operations. Shame it’s a Lidl now 😂
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 29, 2023 9:28:33 GMT
Interesting subject. Kingston Bus legacy gave us the K1,K2 & K3 initially. They all replaced parts of “big bus” routes 71,152,215,216 & 281. And penetrated Sunray Estate plus giving Berrylands, Claygate, Chessington Industrial Estate and parts of Hook a more frequent service. Then came the K4/5/6. The initial K5 has now expanded and the former K6 taken over by part of the K3. K4 hasn’t changed much. Bromley area routes were never put out to mass tender. But the area already had quite a few localised routes, some ex London Country routes and some independent routes run by Metrobus. Routes like the 138,146,246,352,354 could easily have been given a letter prefix and branded Bromley Bus. It would be interesting to know why LRT decided to target Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and to a lesser extent Sutton. All those garages ( A,BX,HD & NB) suffered and one had to close eventually. Imagine if NB had retained routes like the 131 & 213 ! In a parallel universe Kingston Bus could have easily expanded and put a dent in AL’s operations. Cardinal, two words. Cost. Cutting. The bus industry was in turmoil at the time (mid-1980s) with operators outside London dealing with the chaos of deregulation and the privatisation/sell-off of the former National Bus Company (NBC) subsidiaries. Or if you prefer, seeking dynamic new market opportunities in a spirit of thrusting entrepreneurship - which in most cases translated as running your bus five minutes in front of someone else's. Whilst London was spared deregulation, privatisation was very much on the cards through route tendering and the low-cost operations at Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and Sutton were attempts to stay in the game in the face of competition from independent operators and the privatised former London Country and other NBC subsidiaries.
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Post by cardinal on Jun 29, 2023 9:51:58 GMT
Interesting subject. Kingston Bus legacy gave us the K1,K2 & K3 initially. They all replaced parts of “big bus” routes 71,152,215,216 & 281. And penetrated Sunray Estate plus giving Berrylands, Claygate, Chessington Industrial Estate and parts of Hook a more frequent service. Then came the K4/5/6. The initial K5 has now expanded and the former K6 taken over by part of the K3. K4 hasn’t changed much. Bromley area routes were never put out to mass tender. But the area already had quite a few localised routes, some ex London Country routes and some independent routes run by Metrobus. Routes like the 138,146,246,352,354 could easily have been given a letter prefix and branded Bromley Bus. It would be interesting to know why LRT decided to target Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and to a lesser extent Sutton. All those garages ( A,BX,HD & NB) suffered and one had to close eventually. Imagine if NB had retained routes like the 131 & 213 ! In a parallel universe Kingston Bus could have easily expanded and put a dent in AL’s operations. Cardinal, two words. Cost. Cutting. The bus industry was in turmoil at the time (mid-1980s) with operators outside London dealing with the chaos of deregulation and the privatisation/sell-off of the former National Bus Company (NBC) subsidiaries. Or if you prefer, seeking dynamic new market opportunities in a spirit of thrusting entrepreneurship - which in most cases translated as running your bus five minutes in front of someone else's. Whilst London was spared deregulation, privatisation was very much on the cards through route tendering and the low-cost operations at Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and Sutton were attempts to stay in the game in the face of competition from independent operators and the privatised former London Country and other NBC subsidiaries. Yes I’m sure some of those younger entrepreneurs are in high places now.
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 29, 2023 17:22:53 GMT
Interesting subject. Kingston Bus legacy gave us the K1,K2 & K3 initially. They all replaced parts of “big bus” routes 71,152,215,216 & 281. And penetrated Sunray Estate plus giving Berrylands, Claygate, Chessington Industrial Estate and parts of Hook a more frequent service. Then came the K4/5/6. The initial K5 has now expanded and the former K6 taken over by part of the K3. K4 hasn’t changed much. Bromley area routes were never put out to mass tender. But the area already had quite a few localised routes, some ex London Country routes and some independent routes run by Metrobus. Routes like the 138,146,246,352,354 could easily have been given a letter prefix and branded Bromley Bus. It would be interesting to know why LRT decided to target Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and to a lesser extent Sutton. All those garages ( A,BX,HD & NB) suffered and one had to close eventually. Imagine if NB had retained routes like the 131 & 213 ! In a parallel universe Kingston Bus could have easily expanded and put a dent in AL’s operations. Cardinal, two words. Cost. Cutting. The bus industry was in turmoil at the time (mid-1980s) with operators outside London dealing with the chaos of deregulation and the privatisation/sell-off of the former National Bus Company (NBC) subsidiaries. Or if you prefer, seeking dynamic new market opportunities in a spirit of thrusting entrepreneurship - which in most cases translated as running your bus five minutes in front of someone else's. Whilst London was spared deregulation, privatisation was very much on the cards through route tendering and the low-cost operations at Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and Sutton were attempts to stay in the game in the face of competition from independent operators and the privatised former London Country and other NBC subsidiaries. I remember the assortment of tired Atlanteans in every colour, so long as it had a "London Transport Bus Service" sticker on the front, it was okay Armchair in Brentford (before Metroline took over) had some very ropey Atlanteans on the 65 and 260, but the early days of bus tenders was very interesting in terms of liveries. Atlas Bus and R&I Coaches were independents near me in Ealing, in plain white. Ealing had "E-Line", routes E1 to E10, there was an E4 at one point, mostly Wright bodied Renault breadvans which had flipdot blinds at the back which were cool. Branding everywhere won't work in London, a lot more work from home so the network is not as busy as before. Brands will disappear against an all over red background anyway
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Post by WH241 on Jun 29, 2023 17:38:45 GMT
Cardinal, two words. Cost. Cutting. The bus industry was in turmoil at the time (mid-1980s) with operators outside London dealing with the chaos of deregulation and the privatisation/sell-off of the former National Bus Company (NBC) subsidiaries. Or if you prefer, seeking dynamic new market opportunities in a spirit of thrusting entrepreneurship - which in most cases translated as running your bus five minutes in front of someone else's. Whilst London was spared deregulation, privatisation was very much on the cards through route tendering and the low-cost operations at Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and Sutton were attempts to stay in the game in the face of competition from independent operators and the privatised former London Country and other NBC subsidiaries. I remember the assortment of tired Atlanteans in every colour, so long as it had a "London Transport Bus Service" sticker on the front, it was okay Armchair in Brentford (before Metroline took over) had some very ropey Atlanteans on the 65 and 260, but the early days of bus tenders was very interesting in terms of liveries. Atlas Bus and R&I Coaches were independents near me in Ealing, in plain white. Ealing had "E-Line", routes E1 to E10, there was an E4 at one point, mostly Wright bodied Renault breadvans which had flipdot blinds at the back which were cool. Branding everywhere won't work in London, a lot more work from home so the network is not as busy as before. Brands will disappear against an all over red background anyway Makes you wonder how passengers coped in the 90s with the rainbow of coloured buses! Good times especially with Capital Citybus and Grey Green over in the east! You never knew what type of bus would turn up! Single decker, single door, no driver protection screen.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 2, 2023 5:54:18 GMT
Interesting subject. Kingston Bus legacy gave us the K1,K2 & K3 initially. They all replaced parts of “big bus” routes 71,152,215,216 & 281. And penetrated Sunray Estate plus giving Berrylands, Claygate, Chessington Industrial Estate and parts of Hook a more frequent service. Then came the K4/5/6. The initial K5 has now expanded and the former K6 taken over by part of the K3. K4 hasn’t changed much. Bromley area routes were never put out to mass tender. But the area already had quite a few localised routes, some ex London Country routes and some independent routes run by Metrobus. Routes like the 138,146,246,352,354 could easily have been given a letter prefix and branded Bromley Bus. It would be interesting to know why LRT decided to target Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and to a lesser extent Sutton. All those garages ( A,BX,HD & NB) suffered and one had to close eventually. Imagine if NB had retained routes like the 131 & 213 ! In a parallel universe Kingston Bus could have easily expanded and put a dent in AL’s operations. Cardinal, two words. Cost. Cutting. The bus industry was in turmoil at the time (mid-1980s) with operators outside London dealing with the chaos of deregulation and the privatisation/sell-off of the former National Bus Company (NBC) subsidiaries. Or if you prefer, seeking dynamic new market opportunities in a spirit of thrusting entrepreneurship - which in most cases translated as running your bus five minutes in front of someone else's. Whilst London was spared deregulation, privatisation was very much on the cards through route tendering and the low-cost operations at Harrow, Kingston, Bexleyheath and Sutton were attempts to stay in the game in the face of competition from independent operators and the privatised former London Country and other NBC subsidiaries. I remember imagining - of course wrongly as it turned out - that many of these outer London routes were loss-making compared to central London in particular. So, my theory was that these routes were going out to tender early ahead of deregulation for London in the 90s to avoid a mammoth round of tenders needed simultaneously just before London's would-be imminent "October 26th".
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 2, 2023 5:59:21 GMT
I remember the assortment of tired Atlanteans in every colour, so long as it had a "London Transport Bus Service" sticker on the front, it was okay Armchair in Brentford (before Metroline took over) had some very ropey Atlanteans on the 65 and 260, but the early days of bus tenders was very interesting in terms of liveries. Atlas Bus and R&I Coaches were independents near me in Ealing, in plain white. Ealing had "E-Line", routes E1 to E10, there was an E4 at one point, mostly Wright bodied Renault breadvans which had flipdot blinds at the back which were cool. Branding everywhere won't work in London, a lot more work from home so the network is not as busy as before. Brands will disappear against an all over red background anyway Makes you wonder how passengers coped in the 90s with the rainbow of coloured buses! Good times especially with Capital Citybus and Grey Green over in the east! You never knew what type of bus would turn up! Single decker, single door, no driver protection screen. Those were indeed among the best regarded independents at the time. Walthamstow had 2 shock early rounds of tenders, leading to the garage closures of Loughton in 1986 and Walthamstow in 1991. It had a later shock involving mass Arriva losses in 2012. Maybe another shock is looming with almost as many Stagecoach losses as other operators could accommodate?
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Post by someone on Jul 2, 2023 18:57:45 GMT
Ironically, I think the R routes in Orpington and U routes in Uxbridge are the two best networks for any branding exercise as they both center on one particular town centre much like what happens outside London and are more related to each through their corresponding prefix letter - not saying Bromley couldn't work (I'm interested to hear how you'd do it with that list of routes) but I just find those two places to lend itself to it that little bit more. Same goes for the "B" branded routes in Bexleyheath, or the "K" branded routes in Kingston.
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Post by surab21 on Jul 2, 2023 19:13:51 GMT
I am wondering why that Bromley being such a big town and an urban area which has a comprehensive bus network, why this didn't get its own bus network with a clean sheet design in the same way as Orpington (Roundabout) and Bexleybus (Bexleyheath)? Instead there has been a piecemeal approach over the years, looking at the current bus network and I would confidently say Bromley would be the perfect town for this, thinking bus route, such as; 126 - Bromley - Mottingham - Eltham 138 - Coney Hall - Hayes - Bromley 146 - Bromley - Keston - Downe 162 - Beckenham - Bromley - Eltham 246 - Bromley - Biggin Hill - Westerham 273 - Lewisham - Chistlehurst - Petts Wood 314 - Eltham -Bromley - 336 - Locks Bottom - Bromley - Catford 352 - Lower Sydenham - Beckenham - Bromley 354 - Penge - Beckenham - Bromley 356 - Shirley - Penge - Upper Sydenham 358 - Orpington - Bromley - Crystal Palace 367 - Bromley - Elmers End - Croydon Well... the bus network in and around Bromley town centre is planned for a review during this financial year.
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Post by buspete on Jul 15, 2023 16:16:44 GMT
Is that for both Superloop bus routes that will serve Bromley or is it a more comprehensive review?
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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 15, 2023 16:31:21 GMT
Is that for both Superloop bus routes that will serve Bromley or is it a more comprehensive review? More comprehensive, and also taking in Lewisham and Catford apparently.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 15, 2023 17:22:30 GMT
I am wondering why that Bromley being such a big town and an urban area which has a comprehensive bus network, why this didn't get its own bus network with a clean sheet design in the same way as Orpington (Roundabout) and Bexleybus (Bexleyheath)? Instead there has been a piecemeal approach over the years, looking at the current bus network and I would confidently say Bromley would be the perfect town for this, thinking bus route, such as; 126 - Bromley - Mottingham - Eltham 138 - Coney Hall - Hayes - Bromley 146 - Bromley - Keston - Downe 162 - Beckenham - Bromley - Eltham 246 - Bromley - Biggin Hill - Westerham 273 - Lewisham - Chistlehurst - Petts Wood 314 - Eltham -Bromley - 336 - Locks Bottom - Bromley - Catford 352 - Lower Sydenham - Beckenham - Bromley 354 - Penge - Beckenham - Bromley 356 - Shirley - Penge - Upper Sydenham 358 - Orpington - Bromley - Crystal Palace 367 - Bromley - Elmers End - Croydon Well... the bus network in and around Bromley town centre is planned for a review during this financial year. do you know when
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 15, 2023 17:26:33 GMT
I am wondering why that Bromley being such a big town and an urban area which has a comprehensive bus network, why this didn't get its own bus network with a clean sheet design in the same way as Orpington (Roundabout) and Bexleybus (Bexleyheath)? Instead there has been a piecemeal approach over the years, looking at the current bus network and I would confidently say Bromley would be the perfect town for this, thinking bus route, such as; 126 - Bromley - Mottingham - Eltham 138 - Coney Hall - Hayes - Bromley 146 - Bromley - Keston - Downe 162 - Beckenham - Bromley - Eltham 246 - Bromley - Biggin Hill - Westerham 273 - Lewisham - Chistlehurst - Petts Wood 314 - Eltham -Bromley - 336 - Locks Bottom - Bromley - Catford 352 - Lower Sydenham - Beckenham - Bromley 354 - Penge - Beckenham - Bromley 356 - Shirley - Penge - Upper Sydenham 358 - Orpington - Bromley - Crystal Palace 367 - Bromley - Elmers End - Croydon The 273 and 356 do not serve Bromley town. You also forgot the 208, 227, 261 and 320. The 314 also serves New Addington
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 15, 2023 18:10:58 GMT
Makes you wonder how passengers coped in the 90s with the rainbow of coloured buses! Good times especially with Capital Citybus and Grey Green over in the east! You never knew what type of bus would turn up! Single decker, single door, no driver protection screen. Those were indeed among the best regarded independents at the time. Walthamstow had 2 shock early rounds of tenders, leading to the garage closures of Loughton in 1986 and Walthamstow in 1991. It had a later shock involving mass Arriva losses in 2012. Maybe another shock is looming with almost as many Stagecoach losses as other operators could accommodate? Stagecoach and ELBG did suffer a lot of shock blows. Some of the worst was losing the 25, 26, 30 then later 5, 15, 115
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Post by h0pidol on Jul 16, 2023 19:43:12 GMT
On the topic of buses in Bromley, bromley really needs a new bus station where buses from both the North (126,227,269,354,SL3) and the South (61, 119, 138,146, 246, 352, SL5)can terminate.
Perhaps the whole of Elmfield Road could be made buses only and widened to make room for stands, and a roundabout put in at the Eastern End so buses can turn around?
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