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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Aug 24, 2023 11:34:54 GMT
Timetable for the 84B
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Post by barrypotter on Aug 24, 2023 14:03:16 GMT
Guess it depends how long the funding is guaranteed for and if all those passengers how campaigned for the service actually use it! It's once an hour and Hertsmere are providing a subsidy at least for a time. I'm still not quite clear on the precise routing but it looks like it maybe do the loop round Potters Bar clockwise while the new 84 does it anticlockwise. Then reversing in High Barnet via Underhill, Westcombe Drive and Fairfield Way to then go back up Wood Street to Barnet Hospital then back down then on to Hadley Highstone. I'm not entirely sure yet though. From the map here it might be serving the tube station twice, once before serving Barnet Hospital and once after? Yes that's what it looks like if you 'show all stops' on the timetable: bustimes.org/services/84b-barnet-hospital-potters-bar#mapThey have said they want to get a late evening and Sunday service afterwards. 3 minutes from tube heading south to tube heading north might be pushing it. When the school traffic starts up again, this schedule, especially heading north from Underhill will be well nigh impossible for one bus. A slight cheat would be to cut out Underhill and terminate at the cinema. Comments?
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 24, 2023 14:42:41 GMT
It's once an hour and Hertsmere are providing a subsidy at least for a time. I'm still not quite clear on the precise routing but it looks like it maybe do the loop round Potters Bar clockwise while the new 84 does it anticlockwise. Then reversing in High Barnet via Underhill, Westcombe Drive and Fairfield Way to then go back up Wood Street to Barnet Hospital then back down then on to Hadley Highstone. I'm not entirely sure yet though. From the map here it might be serving the tube station twice, once before serving Barnet Hospital and once after? Yes that's what it looks like if you 'show all stops' on the timetable: bustimes.org/services/84b-barnet-hospital-potters-bar#mapThey have said they want to get a late evening and Sunday service afterwards. 3 minutes from tube heading south to tube heading north might be pushing it. When the school traffic starts up again, this schedule, especially heading north from Underhill will be well nigh impossible for one bus. A slight cheat would be to cut out Underhill and terminate at the cinema. Comments? The timetable has extended headways at peak times - from Potters Bar there are gaps between 08.05 and 09.25, and between 16.25 and 17.35.
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Post by uakari on Aug 24, 2023 17:08:16 GMT
It's once an hour and Hertsmere are providing a subsidy at least for a time. I'm still not quite clear on the precise routing but it looks like it maybe do the loop round Potters Bar clockwise while the new 84 does it anticlockwise. Then reversing in High Barnet via Underhill, Westcombe Drive and Fairfield Way to then go back up Wood Street to Barnet Hospital then back down then on to Hadley Highstone. I'm not entirely sure yet though. From the map here it might be serving the tube station twice, once before serving Barnet Hospital and once after? Yes that's what it looks like if you 'show all stops' on the timetable: bustimes.org/services/84b-barnet-hospital-potters-bar#mapThey have said they want to get a late evening and Sunday service afterwards. 3 minutes from tube heading south to tube heading north might be pushing it. When the school traffic starts up again, this schedule, especially heading north from Underhill will be well nigh impossible for one bus. A slight cheat would be to cut out Underhill and terminate at the cinema. Comments? Not easy to reverse at the cinema - perhaps just about possible by using the narrow access roads directly in front of the cinema and petrol station but quite tight.
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 24, 2023 17:27:26 GMT
So you don’t think it will last hourly yet would like it upped in frequency and take on by TfL? Personally I don’t see it lasting, after all CIL funding only goes so far and if the cost were to outweigh the benefits. Besides has there been much development in Hertsmere to fully cover these costs and still enable the wider community to invest in parks, schools, surgeries etc which would also be partially paid for by the CIL? A half-hourly service can attract a much more reasonable custom as opposed to a limited hourly. A more frequent service has always shown to create new demand and attracting users onto a service. Looking at existing capacity and usage doesn't fully result in answering why a service is low used and can't increase in services, rather questions should be asked why users don't use it? Is it because of limited links? Poor frequency? etc. It depends whether there is a demand for a 30 minute frequency. Rather start it hourly and review it from there
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Post by northlondon83 on Aug 24, 2023 17:28:15 GMT
Timetable for the 84B Have to say not running beyond 7pm ish is a bit of a poor decision. I would extend the operating hours by at least 2 hours
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 24, 2023 17:41:50 GMT
Timetable for the 84B [deleted to save space] Have to say not running beyond 7pm ish is a bit of a poor decision. I would extend the operating hours by at least 2 hours It's quite normal for services outside London to finish around 7pm. What demand do you anticipate for journeys up to 9pm given someone will have to pay for those journeys?
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 25, 2023 0:13:15 GMT
A half-hourly service can attract a much more reasonable custom as opposed to a limited hourly. A more frequent service has always shown to create new demand and attracting users onto a service. Looking at existing capacity and usage doesn't fully result in answering why a service is low used and can't increase in services, rather questions should be asked why users don't use it? Is it because of limited links? Poor frequency? etc. Fine, but in this case where the funding is so precarious an hourly service makes more sense. If there is solid demand and numbers are growing week on week then it may be an idea to look at in 5 years. Honestly though I don’t expect the same people who were complaining to be regular users. The CIL funding is only for 12 months max and is dependent on usage. There isn’t even a word on pricing structure, journey times, hours of operation. It’ll be hard to build a cost covering service if the majority of the passengers are likely to be OAPs with freedom passes. An hourly service at the very least covers most those horror stories of people unable to get to hospital appointments, an old lady having to walk miles along the main road ect and no one can say they are stranded even if it does mean planning around the times. The 375 is 15 years old now and is still running the 90 mins service with 1 bus. Again filled the brief of giving Havering-Atte-Bower a bus service.
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Post by barrypotter on Aug 25, 2023 3:43:25 GMT
3 minutes from tube heading south to tube heading north might be pushing it. When the school traffic starts up again, this schedule, especially heading north from Underhill will be well nigh impossible for one bus. A slight cheat would be to cut out Underhill and terminate at the cinema. Comments? Not easy to reverse at the cinema - perhaps just about possible by using the narrow access roads directly in front of the cinema and petrol station but quite tight. Not necessary to reverse. 34, 263, 307 etc often use the service road in front of the petrol station for turning due to curtailment.
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Post by uakari on Aug 25, 2023 13:01:44 GMT
Not easy to reverse at the cinema - perhaps just about possible by using the narrow access roads directly in front of the cinema and petrol station but quite tight. Not necessary to reverse. 34, 263, 307 etc often use the service road in front of the petrol station for turning due to curtailment. I think the original plan was to terminate at the cinema but TfL didn't like them using the service road from the north (the fact TfL need to approve the LSP but don't see fit to contribute anything is a little ridiculous but anyway).
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Post by N230UD on Aug 26, 2023 17:38:23 GMT
Interestingly, just before they start operating this service, Central Connect has been bought by Vectare. Central Connect will remain separate from the Vectare Essex operation for the time being.
Back to the 84B - I would have thought it would be better to pay Sullivan to extend some of their route 84 journeys, rather than having two separate services. Although obviously I have no idea what may have gone on behind the scenes - Sullivan may have declined to do so. The number of people making through journeys on the Metroline 84 may have been very small anyway (some on here might have a better idea).
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Post by uakari on Aug 27, 2023 16:28:09 GMT
Interestingly, just before they start operating this service, Central Connect has been bought by Vectare. Central Connect will remain separate from the Vectare Essex operation for the time being. Back to the 84B - I would have thought it would be better to pay Sullivan to extend some of their route 84 journeys, rather than having two separate services. Although obviously I have no idea what may have gone on behind the scenes - Sullivan may have declined to do so. The number of people making through journeys on the Metroline 84 may have been very small anyway (some on here might have a better idea). Sullivan did decline. There are some timetabled interchange opportunities for through journeys such as 7 minutes between the arrival of the 84 from St Albans at PB station and the departure of the 84B to Barnet.
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Post by uakari on Sept 2, 2023 23:01:57 GMT
Info on pricing as I understand it:
£2 cap won't be valid. Single PB to Barnet £3, return £4.50, Intalink Explorer valid throughout. ENCTS/Freedom Pass valid throughout from 9:30am. Cash and contactless card accepted. No capping/Oyster/Oyster 60+/Zip.
Some people are concerned the timetable will be tight and doesn't allow enough time for traffic and driver relief.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 3, 2023 0:03:52 GMT
Info on pricing as I understand it: £2 cap won't be valid. Single PB to Barnet £3, return £4.50, Intalink Explorer valid throughout. ENCTS/Freedom Pass valid throughout from 9:30am. Cash and contactless card accepted. No capping/Oyster/Oyster 60+/Zip. Some people are concerned the timetable will be tight and doesn't allow enough time for traffic and driver relief. I think the lack of the £2 cap is a missed opportunity, might of helped it start off on a good note - good to see Intalink is valid though.
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Post by uakari on Sept 3, 2023 0:23:15 GMT
Info on pricing as I understand it: £2 cap won't be valid. Single PB to Barnet £3, return £4.50, Intalink Explorer valid throughout. ENCTS/Freedom Pass valid throughout from 9:30am. Cash and contactless card accepted. No capping/Oyster/Oyster 60+/Zip. Some people are concerned the timetable will be tight and doesn't allow enough time for traffic and driver relief. I think the lack of the £2 cap is a missed opportunity, might of helped it start off on a good note - good to see Intalink is valid though. Apparently it's because it's a new route, although the operator has the cap on their other routes. To be honest the councillor who provides the information on the Save the 84 Facebook group is not very helpful and drip-feeds info rather than replying straightforwardly to questions (at first she led people to believe the cap would be accepted, then said it wouldn't be; she said people can maybe stay on round the loop but they might get chucked off the bus while the driver goes to the toilet, then another councillor said people wouldn't have to pay twice... everything is a bit vague). Anyway, here is a better flyer someone made with the route and the timetable, in case anyone wants to distribute/post it anywhere: www.lots.org.uk/pdf/84b%2020230826.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2s5m5o68OOB8H8YWSS1vIqtB-hptIUWbtff1UYpkAbhifGtaite6GpK7kApparently there is going to an 'inauguration' celebration of the new route taking place at Potters Bar railway station at 10am on Monday, if anyone is interested.
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