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Post by greenboy on Oct 5, 2023 16:12:33 GMT
No great surprise about the 353 and R2 really, and clearly the idea of rerouting the R1 to Biggin Hill at a higher frequency is about ULEZ expansion rather than actual demand.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 5, 2023 17:31:05 GMT
I wonder could the 205 increases be related to changing travel patterns after the Elizabeth line opened.
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 5, 2023 18:07:59 GMT
Top 20 least used double deck routes: 20: 405 - 1,388,941 (+1) 19: 496 - 1,343,530 (-1) 18: 418 - 1,330,996 (+3) 17: 401 - 1,324,745 (new) 16: 313 - 1,319,070 (-1) 15: 292 - 1,316,312 (-3) 14: 372 - 1,270,479 (-2) 13: 335 - 1,227,336 (+1) 12: 357 - 1,183,293 (-2) 11: 353 - 1,165,801 (-2) 10: 406 - 1,117,460 (+1) 9: 428 - 1,083,684 (-2) 8: 492 - 1,070,354 (-2) 7: 215 - 956,420 (-1) 6: 498 - 840,967 (-1) 5: 317 - 764,552 (-) 4: 412 - 698,837 (-) 3: 481 - 505,713 (-) 2: X68 - 328,173 (-) 1: 467 - 130,456 (-) The 129 jumped off this list after it was extended to Lewisham. It was previously at no. 6. thank you so much. Both R2 and 353 didn't see a very strong hold with usages. It is clear something is not quite right on routes. I can't see route R1 extend via R2 replacement with run every 20 minutes if TfL go ahead for this planner next year or so. mmm There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. |
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Post by TB123 on Oct 5, 2023 18:13:54 GMT
thank you so much. Both R2 and 353 didn't see a very strong hold with usages. It is clear something is not quite right on routes. I can't see route R1 extend via R2 replacement with run every 20 minutes if TfL go ahead for this planner next year or so. mmm There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. Don't forget the Princess Royal Hospital catchment area includes Coney Hall and Hayes, and the 353 fulfils a very important direct link there. |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 5, 2023 18:25:36 GMT
thank you so much. Both R2 and 353 didn't see a very strong hold with usages. It is clear something is not quite right on routes. I can't see route R1 extend via R2 replacement with run every 20 minutes if TfL go ahead for this planner next year or so. mmm There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. I really can't see the increased R1 attracting more usage and I would extend the 353 back to Croydon via Shirley Park and do something else with the 466, the 433 could replace the Forestdale section. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 5, 2023 18:35:58 GMT
thank you so much. Both R2 and 353 didn't see a very strong hold with usages. It is clear something is not quite right on routes. I can't see route R1 extend via R2 replacement with run every 20 minutes if TfL go ahead for this planner next year or so. mmm There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. I imagine the 353 has seen a drop in long distance travel from Hayes and Orpington into Addington Village because due to more integrated ticketing existing nowadays compared to 2000 when Tramlink was first introduced, and those who live in Hayes or Orpington are probably a lot more enticed to catch a Southeastern and switch at Beckenham Junction or Elmers End for the trams. |
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Post by ronnie on Oct 5, 2023 19:11:35 GMT
There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. I imagine the 353 has seen a drop in long distance travel from Hayes and Orpington into Addington Village because due to more integrated ticketing existing nowadays compared to 2000 when Tramlink was first introduced, and those who live in Hayes or Orpington are probably a lot more enticed to catch a Southeastern and switch at Beckenham Junction or Elmers End for the trams. Am not local so please feel free to disagree but I feel (having done an e2e not so long ago) is that the route is too low frequency plus ends in the middle of nowhere on the west side. On the east side it already terminates in the middle of a residential area (which is fine) but on the west side doesn’t have a “draw”. Will only get a handful of people from addington village. It’s only about 50min end to end so maybe a small extension adding 10-15 min won’t hurt? |
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Post by WH241 on Oct 5, 2023 19:13:31 GMT
The 304 has some pretty decent usage for a new route (2,042,974) and is of a similar number to other local routes. Other routes such as the 474 have seen increases which I would assume is a result of the Elizabeth line opening.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 5, 2023 19:33:32 GMT
There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. I imagine the 353 has seen a drop in long distance travel from Hayes and Orpington into Addington Village because due to more integrated ticketing existing nowadays compared to 2000 when Tramlink was first introduced, and those who live in Hayes or Orpington are probably a lot more enticed to catch a Southeastern and switch at Beckenham Junction or Elmers End for the trams. Not to mention that Croydon isn't really the destination it once was. The amount to demand to travel to it has probably dropped over the years with Bromley more likely to attract people from Orpington. |
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Post by londonbuses on Oct 5, 2023 21:00:29 GMT
Top 30 routes with highest percentage change in usage compared to 2021/22:
1. Route 129 - 228.29% 2. Route 497 - 200.23% 3. Route 301 - 156.63% 4. Route X68 - 152.55% 5. Route 423 - 152.28% 6. Route 481 - 149.28% 7. Route 456 - 148.60% 8. Route H22 - 143.38% 9. Route 411 - 143.02% 10. Route X26 - 141.94% 11. Route 105 - 141.52% 12. Route 293 - 140.37% 13. Route H14 - 138.93% 14. Route H98 - 138.76% 15. Route 290 - 138.23% 16. Route 419 - 138.10% 17. Route 139 - 138.09% 18. Route U3 - 137.37% 19. Route 74 - 137.12% 20. Route 388 - 137.08% 21. Route K4 - 136.71% 22. Route 100 - 136.67% 23. Route H32 - 136.62% 24. Route 324 - 136.27% 25. Route 33 - 135.98% 26. Route X140 - 135.96% 27. Route K1 - 135.80% 28. Route 172 - 135.43% 29. Route H3 - 135.18% 30. Route 203 - 135.12%
Top 30 routes with lowest percentage change in usage compared to 2021/22:
1. Route U10 - 81.55% 2. Route 104 - 88.38% 3. Route 209 - 92.55% 4. Route 414 - 95.36% 5. Route 12 - 96.05% 6. Route 359 - 96.88% 7. Route 159 - 97.52% 8. Route B11 - 97.75% 9. Route 228 - 99.20% 10. Route 472 - 101.07% 11. Route 549 - 101.10% 12. Route 72 - 101.56% 13. Route 130 - 101.58% 14. Route 267 - 103.22% 15. Route 101 - 103.30% 16. Route H28 - 104.12% 17. Route E11 - 104.12% 18. Route 15 - 104.73% 19. Route 464 - 105.29% 20. Route 259 - 106.66% 21. Route 23 - 106.78% 22. Route 415 - 107.23% 23. Route P5 - 107.27% 24. Route 401 - 107.41% 25. Route 218 - 107.45% 26. Route 473 - 107.51% 27. Route 171 - 107.90% 28. Route 379 - 107.90% 29. Route H20 - 108.08% 30. Route S4 - 108.53% |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Oct 5, 2023 21:51:49 GMT
I wonder could the 205 increases be related to changing travel patterns after the Elizabeth line opened. Can't help but think if the ridership could further be boosted if service was improved. Not uncommon to have 15-20 mins gaps on the 205 followed by 2-3 buses on the route in quick succession.
Return of more tourists can also have helped with the route, with it being used by suitcase wielding passengers to KX, Euston, Paddington as an alternative to the tube. Perhaps also the return of more office workers more days a week in the Shoreditch/Liverpool Street area.
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Post by rift on Oct 5, 2023 21:57:25 GMT
Top 30 routes with highest percentage change in usage compared to 2021/22:
1. Route 129 - 228.29% 2. Route 497 - 200.23% 3. Route 301 - 156.63% 4. Route X68 - 152.55% 5. Route 423 - 152.28% 6. Route 481 - 149.28% 7. Route 456 - 148.60% 8. Route H22 - 143.38% 9. Route 411 - 143.02% 10. Route X26 - 141.94% 11. Route 105 - 141.52% 12. Route 293 - 140.37% 13. Route H14 - 138.93% 14. Route H98 - 138.76% 15. Route 290 - 138.23% 16. Route 419 - 138.10% 17. Route 139 - 138.09% 18. Route U3 - 137.37% 19. Route 74 - 137.12% 20. Route 388 - 137.08% 21. Route K4 - 136.71% 22. Route 100 - 136.67% 23. Route H32 - 136.62% 24. Route 324 - 136.27% 25. Route 33 - 135.98% 26. Route X140 - 135.96% 27. Route K1 - 135.80% 28. Route 172 - 135.43% 29. Route H3 - 135.18% 30. Route 203 - 135.12%
Top 30 routes with lowest percentage change in usage compared to 2021/22:
1. Route U10 - 81.55% 2. Route 104 - 88.38% 3. Route 209 - 92.55% 4. Route 414 - 95.36% 5. Route 12 - 96.05% 6. Route 359 - 96.88% 7. Route 159 - 97.52% 8. Route B11 - 97.75% 9. Route 228 - 99.20% 10. Route 472 - 101.07% 11. Route 549 - 101.10% 12. Route 72 - 101.56% 13. Route 130 - 101.58% 14. Route 267 - 103.22% 15. Route 101 - 103.30% 16. Route H28 - 104.12% 17. Route E11 - 104.12% 18. Route 15 - 104.73% 19. Route 464 - 105.29% 20. Route 259 - 106.66% 21. Route 23 - 106.78% 22. Route 415 - 107.23% 23. Route P5 - 107.27% 24. Route 401 - 107.41% 25. Route 218 - 107.45% 26. Route 473 - 107.51% 27. Route 171 - 107.90% 28. Route 379 - 107.90% 29. Route H20 - 108.08% 30. Route S4 - 108.53% Elizabeth Line aside, I’d assume that one of the reasons the 301 has seen a huge jump while the 472 has stayed around the same is due to the latter’s rerouting away from Bentham Road and Nathan Way. Hardly surprised with the B11, reducing the frequency was one thing but withdrawing it from Thamesmead town centre altogether was a very poor decision in my opinion. |
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Post by BK15AZR on Oct 5, 2023 22:00:48 GMT
I'm surprised the 98 has made it to the top 30 - there seems to be a good recovery of certain Central London routes which are good to see.
The 93 was already 31st last year so not surprised it has made it up the list. The 250 has dropped out of the top 30 for the first time in a while I think? Though not far behind.
It's also interesting to see that the 177 is not far behind and it seems like the opening of Elizabeth Line has made it even more popular.
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 5, 2023 22:20:53 GMT
I'm surprised the 98 has made it to the top 30 - there seems to be a good recovery of certain Central London routes which are good to see. The 93 was already 31st last year so not surprised it has made it up the list. The 250 has dropped out of the top 30 for the first time in a while I think? Though not far behind. It's also interesting to see that the 177 is not far behind and it seems like the opening of Elizabeth Line has made it even more popular. The 177 has had to take on all the Woolwich to Greenwich demand now. The 250 may have lost a little demand as it doesn't serve Croydon Town Centre with the 50 and 109 becoming more popular on the Croydon to Streatham link. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 6, 2023 1:35:38 GMT
thank you so much. Both R2 and 353 didn't see a very strong hold with usages. It is clear something is not quite right on routes. I can't see route R1 extend via R2 replacement with run every 20 minutes if TfL go ahead for this planner next year or so. mmm There will be some cases where low usage is a direct result of low frequency, maybe the R2 is one of these? I don't know how much demand there is to travel from Biggin Hill to Orpington, but with the R2 only every half an hour (and the R8 even less), I'm sure many passengers would prefer to drive, or go to Bromley instead using the more frequent 320? So despite low usage at the moment, maybe the R1/R2 will be more attractive to use if every 20 minutes? The 353 is an odd example, I can't see there being a huge demand to travel from Orpington to Addington. The Orpington-Locksbottom and Hayes-Addington sections have more frequent alternatives, so the 353 is mostly useful to those making longer journeys, or for a short connection to/from Forestdale. It's a good point you make in regards to low usage being a result of low frequency but also with the 353 in particular, it received a frequency cut from every 15 minutes to every 20 minutes a few years back which was never going to help matters either |
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