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Post by guyarab on Feb 18, 2024 16:11:55 GMT
I am told that the P4 in both directions, is extremely unreliable (and has been for some weeks), especially in the Honor Oak Park/Brockley area. Can anyone please give me some idea what the problem (if any) might be so that I can pass on the information, as I am many a mile from the area?
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Post by 6HP502C on Feb 19, 2024 16:13:51 GMT
It has been unreliable for at least 25 years, despite running from the same garage since before time began. It slips through the net as it does meet its overall perfomance targets.
At school kickout and peak times, it is a victim of wildly variable runtimes between trips as traffic builds up on the South Circular between Dulwich College and Forest Hill, so there are often gaps in the service. The redesign of Lewisham’s roads hasn’t helped.
Most of the buses do turn up in the middle of the route but you’re more likely to have a dim view of it if you have to board in Lewisham Town Centre or Brixton station. These are the busiest stops on the route but buses are turned at Ladywell and Brixton Police station for service recovery so at certain times of the day, it’s common to have to wait 30+ minutes for a bus that’s supposed to run every 12 minutes.
It can’t really be restructured because of travel patterns on the route. The South Circular has to be served so unless more buses are put on the route, it will always struggle at peak times.
The P4 at Brixton station is also notorious for scrum-like boarding conditions, perhaps more so than any other route in London.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 19, 2024 16:22:01 GMT
It has been unreliable for at least 25 years, despite running from the same garage since before time began. It slips through the net as it does meet its overall perfomance targets. At school kickout and peak times, it is a victim of wildly variable runtimes between trips as traffic builds up on the South Circular between Dulwich College and Forest Hill, so there are often gaps in the service. The redesign of Lewisham’s roads hasn’t helped. Most of the buses do turn up in the middle of the route but you’re more likely to have a dim view of it if you have to board in Lewisham Town Centre or Brixton station. These are the busiest stops on the route but buses are turned at Ladywell and Brixton Police station for service recovery so at certain times of the day, it’s common to have to wait 30+ minutes for a bus that’s supposed to run every 12 minutes. It can’t really be restructured because of travel patterns on the route. The South Circular has to be served so unless more buses are put on the route, it will always struggle at peak times. The P4 at Brixton station is also notorious for scrum-like boarding conditions, perhaps more so than any other route in London. Not helped by Stagecoach regularly chucking out multiple single door short buses on the route though thankfully, that's decreased a lot in the last few years. Go-Ahead will need to be on the ball with the P4 - Stagecoach had decades of experience with this route and Go-Ahead will be thrown in at the deep end from day 1 so I'm hoping they quickly realise how difficult the P4 can be |
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Post by guyarab on Feb 19, 2024 19:27:05 GMT
Thanks to both of you for your input. So much for me (and others) thinking it a recent problem.
I have experienced the scrum at Brixton and beng a Rugby League supporter I know what a scrum is like.
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Route P4
Feb 20, 2024 9:30:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 20, 2024 9:30:33 GMT
It has been unreliable for at least 25 years, despite running from the same garage since before time began. It slips through the net as it does meet its overall perfomance targets. At school kickout and peak times, it is a victim of wildly variable runtimes between trips as traffic builds up on the South Circular between Dulwich College and Forest Hill, so there are often gaps in the service. The redesign of Lewisham’s roads hasn’t helped. Most of the buses do turn up in the middle of the route but you’re more likely to have a dim view of it if you have to board in Lewisham Town Centre or Brixton station. These are the busiest stops on the route but buses are turned at Ladywell and Brixton Police station for service recovery so at certain times of the day, it’s common to have to wait 30+ minutes for a bus that’s supposed to run every 12 minutes. It can’t really be restructured because of travel patterns on the route. The South Circular has to be served so unless more buses are put on the route, it will always struggle at peak times. The P4 at Brixton station is also notorious for scrum-like boarding conditions, perhaps more so than any other route in London. Not helped by Stagecoach regularly chucking out multiple single door short buses on the route though thankfully, that's decreased a lot in the last few years. Go-Ahead will need to be on the ball with the P4 - Stagecoach had decades of experience with this route and Go-Ahead will be thrown in at the deep end from day 1 so I'm hoping they quickly realise how difficult the P4 can be I’m surprised that Stagecoach allowed GAL to takeover the route, would have at least thought they would have tried to retain the route. Then again though I think their Enviro 200 darts are too old to retain the route with, so unless the route were to get electrics I doubt it would be viable to retain the route again. |
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Route P4
Feb 20, 2024 9:49:20 GMT
via mobile
Post by greenboy on Feb 20, 2024 9:49:20 GMT
Not helped by Stagecoach regularly chucking out multiple single door short buses on the route though thankfully, that's decreased a lot in the last few years. Go-Ahead will need to be on the ball with the P4 - Stagecoach had decades of experience with this route and Go-Ahead will be thrown in at the deep end from day 1 so I'm hoping they quickly realise how difficult the P4 can be I’m surprised that Stagecoach allowed GAL to takeover the route, would have at least thought they would have tried to retain the route. Then again though I think their Enviro 200 darts are too old to retain the route with, so unless the route were to get electrics I doubt it would be viable to retain the route again. What makes you think that Stagecoach didn't try to retain the P4? |
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Route P4
Feb 20, 2024 10:11:17 GMT
via mobile
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 20, 2024 10:11:17 GMT
I’m surprised that Stagecoach allowed GAL to takeover the route, would have at least thought they would have tried to retain the route. Then again though I think their Enviro 200 darts are too old to retain the route with, so unless the route were to get electrics I doubt it would be viable to retain the route again. What makes you think that Stagecoach didn't try to retain the P4? It’s very difficult to retain a route using vehicles that are 10+ years old & Stagecoach probably didn’t want to have to put in the extra effort to order electrics for the route to enable it to be retained. |
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Route P4
Feb 20, 2024 10:26:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by greenboy on Feb 20, 2024 10:26:25 GMT
What makes you think that Stagecoach didn't try to retain the P4? It’s very difficult to retain a route using vehicles that are 10+ years old & Stagecoach probably didn’t want to have to put in the extra effort to order electrics for the route to enable it to be retained. Stagecoach have "put in the extra effort" to order electrics for other routes so why would the P4 be any different? Go Ahead obviously outbid them. |
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Post by borneobus on Feb 20, 2024 10:39:02 GMT
Thanks to both of you for your input. So much for me (and others) thinking it a recent problem. I have experienced the scrum at Brixton and beng a Rugby League supporter I know what a scrum is like. Scrums much nastier in RU - however I acknowledge that pound for pound RL players probably 'harder' ;-) |
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Route P4
Feb 20, 2024 10:53:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by bk10mfe on Feb 20, 2024 10:53:29 GMT
It’s very difficult to retain a route using vehicles that are 10+ years old & Stagecoach probably didn’t want to have to put in the extra effort to order electrics for the route to enable it to be retained. Stagecoach have "put in the extra effort" to order electrics for other routes so why would the P4 be any different? Go Ahead obviously outbid them. That is correct but there is only so many times they can do this. P4 is not the only case scenario of this occurring, 366 & D3 are also examples of this too, as Stagecoach could have retained them with electrics if they wanted to. I think GAL did outbid them on the 262/473 losses though as they could easily be retained with Streetdecks. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 20, 2024 12:17:15 GMT
Stagecoach have "put in the extra effort" to order electrics for other routes so why would the P4 be any different? Go Ahead obviously outbid them. That is correct but there is only so many times they can do this. P4 is not the only case scenario of this occurring, 366 & D3 are also examples of this too, as Stagecoach could have retained them with electrics if they wanted to. I think GAL did outbid them on the 262/473 losses though as they could easily be retained with Streetdecks. But Stagecoach did bid for the 366. Go Ahead were cheaper so won the contract. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 20, 2024 12:31:56 GMT
Not helped by Stagecoach regularly chucking out multiple single door short buses on the route though thankfully, that's decreased a lot in the last few years. Go-Ahead will need to be on the ball with the P4 - Stagecoach had decades of experience with this route and Go-Ahead will be thrown in at the deep end from day 1 so I'm hoping they quickly realise how difficult the P4 can be I’m surprised that Stagecoach allowed GAL to takeover the route, would have at least thought they would have tried to retain the route. Then again though I think their Enviro 200 darts are too old to retain the route with, so unless the route were to get electrics I doubt it would be viable to retain the route again. No one allowed anything - Stagecoach had a price in mind and clearly it differed from what TfL was looking for. The Enviro 200’s are too old (and garbage but that’s a separate issue) but Stagecoach wouldn’t have offered them as option and I doubt TfL would have as well. Stagecoach would of likely put forward at least two bids - one existing and one electric just that Go-Ahead submitted a cheaper bid with existing buses |
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 20, 2024 13:02:06 GMT
It has been unreliable for at least 25 years, despite running from the same garage since before time began. It slips through the net as it does meet its overall perfomance targets. At school kickout and peak times, it is a victim of wildly variable runtimes between trips as traffic builds up on the South Circular between Dulwich College and Forest Hill, so there are often gaps in the service. The redesign of Lewisham’s roads hasn’t helped. Most of the buses do turn up in the middle of the route but you’re more likely to have a dim view of it if you have to board in Lewisham Town Centre or Brixton station. These are the busiest stops on the route but buses are turned at Ladywell and Brixton Police station for service recovery so at certain times of the day, it’s common to have to wait 30+ minutes for a bus that’s supposed to run every 12 minutes. It can’t really be restructured because of travel patterns on the route. The South Circular has to be served so unless more buses are put on the route, it will always struggle at peak times. The P4 at Brixton station is also notorious for scrum-like boarding conditions, perhaps more so than any other route in London. Not helped by Stagecoach regularly chucking out multiple single door short buses on the route though thankfully, that's decreased a lot in the last few years. Go-Ahead will need to be on the ball with the P4 - Stagecoach had decades of experience with this route and Go-Ahead will be thrown in at the deep end from day 1 so I'm hoping they quickly realise how difficult the P4 can be The 380 moving to PD has some benefits as 8.9m buses no longer appear on it. At least NX will not do this… for how many years Stageincorrect have done this to 178 181 202 284 366 380 P4 been victims of undersized vehicles. (181 & 284 previously before they went to MB) |
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 20, 2024 13:18:51 GMT
It has been unreliable for at least 25 years, despite running from the same garage since before time began. It slips through the net as it does meet its overall perfomance targets. At school kickout and peak times, it is a victim of wildly variable runtimes between trips as traffic builds up on the South Circular between Dulwich College and Forest Hill, so there are often gaps in the service. The redesign of Lewisham’s roads hasn’t helped. Most of the buses do turn up in the middle of the route but you’re more likely to have a dim view of it if you have to board in Lewisham Town Centre or Brixton station. These are the busiest stops on the route but buses are turned at Ladywell and Brixton Police station for service recovery so at certain times of the day, it’s common to have to wait 30+ minutes for a bus that’s supposed to run every 12 minutes. It can’t really be restructured because of travel patterns on the route. The South Circular has to be served so unless more buses are put on the route, it will always struggle at peak times. The P4 at Brixton station is also notorious for scrum-like boarding conditions, perhaps more so than any other route in London. Scrum like boarding 🤣. Overall that is somewhat true because I remember using the P4 once and the bus stop at Brixton Station was blocked a lot of passengers were outraged the bus drove past the obstruction an stopped way ahead of the stop cage… well overall no common sense… what is driver meant to do block the whole of Brixton Road. |
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Post by londonbusbro on Feb 23, 2024 14:14:34 GMT
I am told that the P4 in both directions, is extremely unreliable (and has been for some weeks), especially in the Honor Oak Park/Brockley area. Can anyone please give me some idea what the problem (if any) might be so that I can pass on the information, as I am many a mile from the area? this isn't true the P4 is very reliable and takes a good route through areas that you cant normally get to from brixton e.g Lewisham. |
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