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Post by TB123 on Jun 15, 2024 7:52:45 GMT
In more depth on my thoughts on this matter, I have a strong feeling that there will be a consultation in the coming weeks/months after the General Election concerning routes 45, 59 and 118. Effectively I think it will be; Route 45 will be proposed to be withdrawn completely Route 59 will be rerouted to terminate at Clapham Park replacing route 45, retaining the link between Clapham Park, Brixton Hill and Brixton. Route 118 will be restructured and extended to Camberwell Green, partially replacing route 45 between Brixton Hill and Camberwell Green, frequency of route 118 will be increased to every 12 minutes (Mondays to Saturdays) and to every 20 minutes (Sundays and evenings). Customers heading towards to Elephant & Castle will be advised to use other alternative bus routes between Camberwell Green and Elephant & Castle. If TFL proceed with the proposals (which I think they will this time around), I think the proposals will be implemented in February 2025. If that is the proposal that TfL choose, then I will be voicing my concern at the removal of a direct hospital link from Clapham Park & Streatham Place surgery to Kings which the 59 wouldn't achieve in that scenario and in fact, the 59 would probably overbus the Clapham Park with it's higher frequency of every 7-8 compared to every 10 of the 45 making the proposal even more odd. I still think the best proposal is to divert the 40 to Clapham Park and increase the frequency of either/both the 176 & 185. The most important links on the 40 between Elephant & Dulwich would be retained by the 176 & 185 and the links on the 45 would also be retained including the minor boost of re-introduction of journeys on the 45 north of Elephant. The 35, 40 & 45 changes have not worked as I predicted and have made a mess out of what were three relatively stable routes that previously worked well together - the 35's frequency increase has had a knock on effect of unnecessary excess capacity over parts of the southern part of the route (the 37 is the route that needs the higher frequency) and has led to multiple daily turns occurring, the 40 lost it's useful routing to Aldgate via London Bridge & Fenchurch Street and missing the traffic jams that the 343 now gets routinely stuck in on Tower Bridge whilst the 45 was unnecessarily chopped significantly and made an unfair target of and is now set to loose more links, this time at it's southern end, if rumours are true. All three routes should pretty much revert to what they were pre 2019 - 35 return to it's old frequency, 40 return to Aldgate via Fenchurch Street & the 45 to at least run to Clerkenwell Green instead of the 40. How would swapping the 35 and 45 southern termini work do you think? And with that cutting the 35 back to 6bph? (although ideally we should keeping routes as frequent as possible) You'd maintain most links in some form, except for north of Elephant to Clapham Junction. I personally quite liked the idea of the 45 taking over the Clerkenwell section of the 40, with the 40 replacing the 176 north of Elephant. Another thing I also thought was a good shout for that area was merging the 415 and 432 into a 6bph route from Anerley to OKR, with perhaps the P4 being extended to Tulse Hill to replace any lost capacity.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 9:02:03 GMT
In more depth on my thoughts on this matter, I have a strong feeling that there will be a consultation in the coming weeks/months after the General Election concerning routes 45, 59 and 118. Effectively I think it will be; Route 45 will be proposed to be withdrawn completely Route 59 will be rerouted to terminate at Clapham Park replacing route 45, retaining the link between Clapham Park, Brixton Hill and Brixton. Route 118 will be restructured and extended to Camberwell Green, partially replacing route 45 between Brixton Hill and Camberwell Green, frequency of route 118 will be increased to every 12 minutes (Mondays to Saturdays) and to every 20 minutes (Sundays and evenings). Customers heading towards to Elephant & Castle will be advised to use other alternative bus routes between Camberwell Green and Elephant & Castle. If TFL proceed with the proposals (which I think they will this time around), I think the proposals will be implemented in February 2025. I would imagine this will happen although I'm not sure about the need to reroute the 59. I think it was inevitable that the truncated 45 wasn't going to survive after the King's Cross section was removed a few years ago. I think the fact the Bakerloop will need a stand at Elephant is also going to be a factor in this. The 45 could just be cut to Camberwell Green and be a more local feeder to King's College route as an alternative proposal.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 15, 2024 9:12:34 GMT
I would imagine this will happen although I'm not sure about the need to reroute the 59. I think it was inevitable that the truncated 45 wasn't going to survive after the King's Cross section was removed a few years ago. I think the fact the Bakerloop will need a stand at Elephant is also going to be a factor in this. The 45 could just be cut to Camberwell Green and be a more local feeder to King's College route as an alternative proposal. Or reroute the 45 to Peckham and curtail the 345 at Camberwell Green, anyway various options have been suggested on here but yes the Bakerloop may well have something to do with it.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 9:15:59 GMT
I think the fact the Bakerloop will need a stand at Elephant is also going to be a factor in this. The 45 could just be cut to Camberwell Green and be a more local feeder to King's College route as an alternative proposal. Or reroute the 45 to Peckham and curtail the 345 at Camberwell Green, anyway various options have been suggested on here but yes the Bakerloop may well have something to do with it. I can't really see where else the BL could stand without something having to move out just like how the 45 was vacating space for the 53.
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Post by cl54 on Jun 15, 2024 9:27:35 GMT
Anything that involves turns at Camberwell Green is not viable.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 15, 2024 9:28:20 GMT
Anything that involves turns at Camberwell Green is not viable. Why? The 148 and 484 both turn around there. I'm sure stands can be adjusted accordingly.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 9:43:20 GMT
Anything that involves turns at Camberwell Green is not viable. That's exactly what the proposed 118 would be doing.
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Post by cl54 on Jun 15, 2024 9:50:41 GMT
Anything that involves turns at Camberwell Green is not viable. That's exactly what the proposed 118 would be doing. So how would it turn and stand?
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Jun 15, 2024 9:56:00 GMT
That's exactly what the proposed 118 would be doing. So how would it turn and stand? Extended route 118 could stand in either Go-Ahead’s Camberwell garage or Transport UK’s Walworth garage (if they win it) in the area just like route 484 does.
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Post by cl54 on Jun 15, 2024 10:00:05 GMT
So how would it turn and stand? Extended route 118 could stand in either Go-Ahead’s Camberwell garage or Transport UK’s Walworth garage (if they win it) in the area just like route 484 does. Camberwell garage turns are limited by the premises. This was one of the reasons why the 42 was extended. The layout at Walworth is unsuitable.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 10:24:25 GMT
In more depth on my thoughts on this matter, I have a strong feeling that there will be a consultation in the coming weeks/months after the General Election concerning routes 45, 59 and 118. Effectively I think it will be; Route 45 will be proposed to be withdrawn completely Route 59 will be rerouted to terminate at Clapham Park replacing route 45, retaining the link between Clapham Park, Brixton Hill and Brixton. Route 118 will be restructured and extended to Camberwell Green, partially replacing route 45 between Brixton Hill and Camberwell Green, frequency of route 118 will be increased to every 12 minutes (Mondays to Saturdays) and to every 20 minutes (Sundays and evenings). Customers heading towards to Elephant & Castle will be advised to use other alternative bus routes between Camberwell Green and Elephant & Castle. If TFL proceed with the proposals (which I think they will this time around), I think the proposals will be implemented in February 2025. I would imagine this will happen although I'm not sure about the need to reroute the 59. I think it was inevitable that the truncated 45 wasn't going to survive after the King's Cross section was removed a few years ago. I personally liked that proposed Marble Arch extension to the 45 which would have seen the 148 cut to Victoria. It would have maintained most the unique 148 links (Walworth/Elephant to Victoria Street/Station/HPC). Had it gone ahead and the 94 cutback to Marble Arch I wouldn't have been surprised to see the 94/148 merged at a later date thou.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2024 12:03:13 GMT
Anything that involves turns at Camberwell Green is not viable. Why? The 148 and 484 both turn around there. I'm sure stands can be adjusted accordingly. Whilst I might be against the cutting back of the 45, there wouldn’t be any issues in a truncated 45 or extended 118 standing in Q or WL. The 484 has done this for decades without issues and on top, various buses have official turns to Camberwell Green
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2024 12:12:33 GMT
If that is the proposal that TfL choose, then I will be voicing my concern at the removal of a direct hospital link from Clapham Park & Streatham Place surgery to Kings which the 59 wouldn't achieve in that scenario and in fact, the 59 would probably overbus the Clapham Park with it's higher frequency of every 7-8 compared to every 10 of the 45 making the proposal even more odd. I still think the best proposal is to divert the 40 to Clapham Park and increase the frequency of either/both the 176 & 185. The most important links on the 40 between Elephant & Dulwich would be retained by the 176 & 185 and the links on the 45 would also be retained including the minor boost of re-introduction of journeys on the 45 north of Elephant. The 35, 40 & 45 changes have not worked as I predicted and have made a mess out of what were three relatively stable routes that previously worked well together - the 35's frequency increase has had a knock on effect of unnecessary excess capacity over parts of the southern part of the route (the 37 is the route that needs the higher frequency) and has led to multiple daily turns occurring, the 40 lost it's useful routing to Aldgate via London Bridge & Fenchurch Street and missing the traffic jams that the 343 now gets routinely stuck in on Tower Bridge whilst the 45 was unnecessarily chopped significantly and made an unfair target of and is now set to loose more links, this time at it's southern end, if rumours are true. All three routes should pretty much revert to what they were pre 2019 - 35 return to it's old frequency, 40 return to Aldgate via Fenchurch Street & the 45 to at least run to Clerkenwell Green instead of the 40. How would swapping the 35 and 45 southern termini work do you think? And with that cutting the 35 back to 6bph? (although ideally we should keeping routes as frequent as possible) You'd maintain most links in some form, except for north of Elephant to Clapham Junction. I personally quite liked the idea of the 45 taking over the Clerkenwell section of the 40, with the 40 replacing the 176 north of Elephant. Another thing I also thought was a good shout for that area was merging the 415 and 432 into a 6bph route from Anerley to OKR, with perhaps the P4 being extended to Tulse Hill to replace any lost capacity. The swapping of the terminals would be a reasonable compromise so I’m open to that. Whilst I agree that routes should be kept as frequent as possible, it hasn’t worked out well for the 35 and seems to have been an exception to the rule so to speak. The 37 in comparison is far more deserving of a frequency increase The P4 is too unreliable to be relied on in regards to any extension to Tulse Hill due to the A205 and in all honesty, I think the 415 has gone from strength to strength since the Old Kent Road extension and I’d like to see it further penetrate into the boroughs of Southwark or Lewisham with the 432 extended down to Elmers End
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 15, 2024 12:53:57 GMT
I would imagine this will happen although I'm not sure about the need to reroute the 59. I think it was inevitable that the truncated 45 wasn't going to survive after the King's Cross section was removed a few years ago. I personally liked that proposed Marble Arch extension to the 45 which would have seen the 148 cut to Victoria. It would have maintained most the unique 148 links (Walworth/Elephant to Victoria Street/Station/HPC). Had it gone ahead and the 94 cutback to Marble Arch I wouldn't have been surprised to see the 94/148 merged at a later date thou. It's worth re-iterating that the 94 to Piccadilly Circus is safe (for now), TfL has formally dropped the proposal to curtail it to Marble Arch now that Oxford Street is not going to be pedestrianised.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 13:33:28 GMT
I personally liked that proposed Marble Arch extension to the 45 which would have seen the 148 cut to Victoria. It would have maintained most the unique 148 links (Walworth/Elephant to Victoria Street/Station/HPC). Had it gone ahead and the 94 cutback to Marble Arch I wouldn't have been surprised to see the 94/148 merged at a later date thou. It's worth re-iterating that the 94 to Piccadilly Circus is safe (for now), TfL has formally dropped the proposal to curtail it to Marble Arch now that Oxford Street is not going to be pedestrianised. Yes absolutely. Would have been the end for 94 had it been cut to Marble Arch tbh. At most now it would probably only be cut to Oxford Circus and share the terminal arrangements with the 7. The diversion via the backstreets is likely to encourage people to jump off at John Lewis and walk to Regent Street for the shops.
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