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Post by DT 11 on May 21, 2024 20:37:58 GMT
Could the 172 go instead, with the 453 diverted to Brockley Rise & the 171 extended back to Aldwych? Therefore the 453’s links remain intact & some stand space at E&C is cleared out. The 53 would probably need to divert to Waterloo under this scenario so that links from OKR to Waterloo are retained. The 453 might get too long if extended to Brockley rise. Also on a side note the 453 is for some reason much slower than the 53 on the common section. Every time I have used the 53, it has left the 453 far behind (probably padded GAL timetables!). Yesterday for example at ~11pm I took the 453 from Oxford Circus to lower marsh and got the 53 (4 min wait); the 53 had managed to overtake the 453 before reaching st George’s circus and then just ran away! Overall the 12 could divert to Marylebone as suggested above. The frequency of the 12 matches that demand. I think it would be a waste of a route to withdraw the 172 that could be made of good use with an extension to Lower Sydenham. If the SL15 does begin I wouldn’t be surprised if the 453 frequency is slightly reduced. Overall though would be a silly move as the 453 is quite busy in the West End. |
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Post by vjaska on May 21, 2024 21:02:14 GMT
It just seems a bit drastic when the 453 is so well used from Oxford Circus to New Cross. The 53/453 duo were #12 and #26 in usage last year, and every single stop on OKR has demand which won't be served properly by the Bakerloop which will probably be pulling in high demand from Lewisham and New Cross already, the 53/172 could get overwhelmed, and it breaks the busy West End/Trafalgar Square direct link for OKR and New Cross which neither the 53 or 172 pull off directly. Could the 172 go instead, with the 453 diverted to Brockley Rise & the 171 extended back to Aldwych? Therefore the 453’s links remain intact & some stand space at E&C is cleared out. The 53 would probably need to divert to Waterloo under this scenario so that links from OKR to Waterloo are retained. I don't really see the need to remove the 172 when it's not the one that potentially could be in the firing line whenever the Bakerloo is finally extended. In an ideal world, the 453 would stay put but I know what TfL are like when this sort of thing comes up - rather than think of what can we do to make things better overall without annoying too many people, it's now what can we cut which is shortsighted way of running a network. |
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Post by bk10mfe on May 22, 2024 8:19:52 GMT
Could the 172 go instead, with the 453 diverted to Brockley Rise & the 171 extended back to Aldwych? Therefore the 453’s links remain intact & some stand space at E&C is cleared out. The 53 would probably need to divert to Waterloo under this scenario so that links from OKR to Waterloo are retained. I don't really see the need to remove the 172 when it's not the one that potentially could be in the firing line whenever the Bakerloo is finally extended. In an ideal world, the 453 would stay put but I know what TfL are like when this sort of thing comes up - rather than think of what can we do to make things better overall without annoying too many people, it's now what can we cut which is shortsighted way of running a network. Yeah this is moreso if tfl had to remove a route off OKR. In an ideal world I would keep everything as it is now, however tfl see that differently, so I aim to withdraw a route that minimises the problems that may arise as a result of an existing route being removed from the corridor. As stated previously I can see that the 453 is very much needed between New Cross & Oxford Circus due to how well it used. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on May 22, 2024 10:51:50 GMT
The 453 might get too long if extended to Brockley rise. Also on a side note the 453 is for some reason much slower than the 53 on the common section. Every time I have used the 53, it has left the 453 far behind (probably padded GAL timetables!). Yesterday for example at ~11pm I took the 453 from Oxford Circus to lower marsh and got the 53 (4 min wait); the 53 had managed to overtake the 453 before reaching st George’s circus and then just ran away! Overall the 12 could divert to Marylebone as suggested above. The frequency of the 12 matches that demand. I think it would be a waste of a route to withdraw the 172 that could be made of good use with an extension to Lower Sydenham. If the SL15 does begin I wouldn’t be surprised if the 453 frequency is slightly reduced. Overall though would be a silly move as the 453 is quite busy in the West End. Has there been any specific announcement about the SL numbers for the new routes or are they just speculative? |
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Post by greenboy on May 22, 2024 21:25:30 GMT
It just seems a bit drastic when the 453 is so well used from Oxford Circus to New Cross. The 53/453 duo were #12 and #26 in usage last year, and every single stop on OKR has demand which won't be served properly by the Bakerloop which will probably be pulling in high demand from Lewisham and New Cross already, the 53/172 could get overwhelmed, and it breaks the busy West End/Trafalgar Square direct link for OKR and New Cross which neither the 53 or 172 pull off directly. Could the 172 go instead, with the 453 diverted to Brockley Rise & the 171 extended back to Aldwych? Therefore the 453’s links remain intact & some stand space at E&C is cleared out. The 53 would probably need to divert to Waterloo under this scenario so that links from OKR to Waterloo are retained. I think that would be better as it would seem likely that either the 53,172 or 453 is likely to be axed and probably a reduction between New Cross and Lewisham as well. |
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Post by bk10mfe on May 22, 2024 22:17:58 GMT
Could the 172 go instead, with the 453 diverted to Brockley Rise & the 171 extended back to Aldwych? Therefore the 453’s links remain intact & some stand space at E&C is cleared out. The 53 would probably need to divert to Waterloo under this scenario so that links from OKR to Waterloo are retained. I think that would be better as it would seem likely that either the 53,172 or 453 is likely to be axed and probably a reduction between New Cross and Lewisham as well. I’ve never seen the 321’s particularly busy between Lewisham & New Cross. Its high frequency is probably a bit overkill for that section. At the very least 1/2 of its current services could be curtailed to Lewisham Station, though stand space may be an issue. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 23, 2024 4:15:39 GMT
I think that would be better as it would seem likely that either the 53,172 or 453 is likely to be axed and probably a reduction between New Cross and Lewisham as well. I’ve never seen the 321’s particularly busy between Lewisham & New Cross. Its high frequency is probably a bit overkill for that section. At the very least 1/2 of its current services could be curtailed to Lewisham Station, though stand space may be an issue. Plus the issue aswell that except the 38 now, TFL don't do half freqs on sections of routes. |
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Post by bk10mfe on May 23, 2024 7:43:53 GMT
Perhaps if a massive saving needed to be made, the 136 & 199 could be merged into 1 route. The 321 could extend to Peckham so that the 436 isn’t entirely the only route between Peckham & Lewisham & if the 343 can’t manage on its own between Peckham & E&C, the 171 can reroute via the old 136. The Bakerloop route could then extend to Catford. The merger of the 136/199 is so that TfL can make a big enough saving to keep OKR as it is now.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 23, 2024 8:32:07 GMT
Could the 172 go instead, with the 453 diverted to Brockley Rise & the 171 extended back to Aldwych? Therefore the 453’s links remain intact & some stand space at E&C is cleared out. The 53 would probably need to divert to Waterloo under this scenario so that links from OKR to Waterloo are retained. I think that would be better as it would seem likely that either the 53,172 or 453 is likely to be axed and probably a reduction between New Cross and Lewisham as well. The 453 is also not well used between NX & Deptford & is just sitting in traffic along that stretch. It probably could manage an extension to Brockley Rise. & as stated previously the 171 extension frees up stand space at E&C. |
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Post by vjaska on May 23, 2024 11:42:32 GMT
Perhaps if a massive saving needed to be made, the 136 & 199 could be merged into 1 route. The 321 could extend to Peckham so that the 436 isn’t entirely the only route between Peckham & Lewisham & if the 343 can’t manage on its own between Peckham & E&C, the 171 can reroute via the old 136. The Bakerloop route could then extend to Catford. The merger of the 136/199 is so that TfL can make a big enough saving to keep OKR as it is now. No merging or massive savings are needed on the Old Kent Road corridor at this point - no doubt a review will take place if the Bakerloo ever gets extended but there is no need to mess around with several routes in the area. The Bakerloop isn’t necessary when the Lewisham link can be provided using either the 415 or 453 to achieve this via different routes. |
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Post by SouthLondoner468 on Jun 20, 2024 22:32:49 GMT
(Wasn’t sure where to put this, but this seemed like the most appropriate place— apologies if it isn’t.)What is the point of the Lunar House bus stop in Croydon? It is served by routes 50, 194, 198 & N68. I don’t see the point of this stop, as it is literally a stone throw away from Whitgift Centre, and every other route serving Whitgift Centre does not serve this stop. Another strange thing is that the bus stop is for buses ‘towards Shirley’, so why do 50 and N68 stop there, but 367 and 689 don’t? Just a genuine question that’s been on my mind for a while  .
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 20, 2024 22:36:57 GMT
(Wasn’t sure where to put this, but this seemed like the most appropriate place— apologies if it isn’t.)What is the point of the Lunar House bus stop in Croydon? It is served by routes 50, 194, 198 & N68. I don’t see the point of this stop, as it is literally a stone throw away from Whitgift Centre, and every other route serving Whitgift Centre does not serve this stop. Another strange thing is that the bus stop is for buses ‘towards Shirley’, so why do 50 and N68 stop there, but 367 and 689 don’t? Just a genuine question that’s been on my mind for a while . It is funny you posted this I have always wondered why the 50 & N68 stops there but the 468 does not. |
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Post by greenboy on Jun 21, 2024 4:58:38 GMT
(Wasn’t sure where to put this, but this seemed like the most appropriate place— apologies if it isn’t.)What is the point of the Lunar House bus stop in Croydon? It is served by routes 50, 194, 198 & N68. I don’t see the point of this stop, as it is literally a stone throw away from Whitgift Centre, and every other route serving Whitgift Centre does not serve this stop. Another strange thing is that the bus stop is for buses ‘towards Shirley’, so why do 50 and N68 stop there, but 367 and 689 don’t? Just a genuine question that’s been on my mind for a while . That is a very strange one that nobody seems to have an explanation for. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Jun 21, 2024 16:24:09 GMT
(Wasn’t sure where to put this, but this seemed like the most appropriate place— apologies if it isn’t.)What is the point of the Lunar House bus stop in Croydon? It is served by routes 50, 194, 198 & N68. I don’t see the point of this stop, as it is literally a stone throw away from Whitgift Centre, and every other route serving Whitgift Centre does not serve this stop. Another strange thing is that the bus stop is for buses ‘towards Shirley’, so why do 50 and N68 stop there, but 367 and 689 don’t? Just a genuine question that’s been on my mind for a while . This may be a case of the council requesting one whenever this stop was created. Lunar House is obviously one of the most important buildings in the borough and is visited by so many people and making it as easily accessible and easy to find has probably something to do with it. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 5, 2024 14:30:05 GMT
The amount of 156’s being curtailed to Haydons Road is really annoying. Did this use to be the case as well or was it less common previously?
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