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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 23, 2024 6:42:54 GMT
I think merging routes on the whole is a waste of time and effort - usually, the choices & type of route involved don't match at all and I personally think the 67 & 329 would be another where I don't see the benefit of merging them. Why would someone in Enfield want to go to Dalston? It would have the advantage thou freeing up stand space for the 91 at Wood Green meaning the 123 might not need cutting back to Turnpike Lane. The 123 is being cut back to Turnpike Lane for other reasons as well than just to free up stand space for the 91 in Wood Green. This being said although I have suggested the 67/329 merger in the past, I think it would be better to extend the 67 to New Southgate, as the 221 does struggle alone on its corridor. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Apr 23, 2024 8:28:30 GMT
Especially with the advent of Superloop, my inclination, far from thinking what routes could be merged, is which routes should be split in two/three.
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Post by Paul on Apr 23, 2024 9:04:07 GMT
Especially with the advent of Superloop, my inclination, far from thinking what routes could be merged, is which routes should be split in two/three. On that note, I’m surprised the 314 has lasted as long as it has. I’m glad it’s lasted because I do prefer long routes (not that I’ve done a 314 in ages!) but I do think it could be more reliable if there was a split. The only issue is where to split since stand space is at a premium in Bromley |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 11:35:07 GMT
Shoreditch to Crystal Palace via Tower Bridge would just cause likely reliability issues to the 363 section, particularly south of Honor Oak where the links are more unique. Could Crystal Palace-Aldgate work? TfL did want to remove routes between Aldgate & Liverpool St & the 42 duplicates the 78 between Tower Bridge & Liverpool St. If not cutting the merged 78 back to City Hall or London Bridge would definitely make the merged route more manageable. The same argument could also be made for extending the 388 to Peckham, where the route’s reliability would have been ruined on the Hackney & Stratford end. Still think it’s too long - Tower Bridge just attracts traffic like a magnet. I really don’t see any need to mess with the 78 & 363 and as I’ve already mentioned, really no fan of merging routes for the sake of it |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 11:41:28 GMT
I think merging routes on the whole is a waste of time and effort - usually, the choices & type of route involved don't match at all and I personally think the 67 & 329 would be another where I don't see the benefit of merging them. Why would someone in Enfield want to go to Dalston? It's not necessarily about end to end journeys though is it? Does anyone living in Wood Green want to get a bus all the way to Trafalgar Square or Waterloo? Probably not, but these routes exist. Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the suggested 67 & 329 merger, it would create new links as well as stand space in Wood Green and Turnpike Lane. It’s not just about that aspect though - the 67 & 329 have completely different roles with the 329 being the major route along the Enfield to Turnpike Lane corridor whilst the 67 links up a few communities between different places. It’s all very well creating new links but if they unlikely to be used and the two routes roles don’t match, there really isn’t any benefit IMO and merging routes just to free up stand space shows we should actually be safeguarding extra stand space rather than having to merge routes to free up space |
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Post by ADH45258 on Apr 23, 2024 11:51:41 GMT
It's not necessarily about end to end journeys though is it? Does anyone living in Wood Green want to get a bus all the way to Trafalgar Square or Waterloo? Probably not, but these routes exist. Whilst I'm not a huge fan of the suggested 67 & 329 merger, it would create new links as well as stand space in Wood Green and Turnpike Lane. It’s not just about that aspect though - the 67 & 329 have completely different roles with the 329 being the major route along the Enfield to Turnpike Lane corridor whilst the 67 links up a few communities between different places. It’s all very well creating new links but if they unlikely to be used and the two routes roles don’t match, there really isn’t any benefit IMO and merging routes just to free up stand space shows we should actually be safeguarding extra stand space rather than having to merge routes to free up space I agree with this, the 67 does have the potential for an extension or reroute to provide some new links, but I don't think merging with the 329 is a good idea. I think the 329 could perhaps instead have a short extension to Chase Farm Hospital replacing the W8, along with a restructure of the 191/W8 to simplify the indirect 191 and provide some new links in the area. If stand space in Wood Green needs to be addressed, the 67 could maybe have a short extension up to New Southgate, to provide some support to the 221 on this section. But otherwise I think the 67 would have more potential at the southern end. For example you could cut back to Stoke Newington, then reroute over the 276 to Hackney Wick, and then the 388 to terminate at Stratford City. This would provide various new links, as well as a more direct one between Hackney Central and Stratford, and providing extra capacity over part of the 276 which can use DDs. The 276 could then cut back to Hackney Wick, or maybe reroute to Leyton Asda? |
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Post by M1104 on Apr 23, 2024 13:02:25 GMT
63/363 could be merged but im guessing there split due to traffic reason ill edit this when i can think of some more Under that scenario the buses would have to be changed on the 63 as the 10.8m E400EVs used are not suitable for a particular turn within the back streets beyond Honor Oak |
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Post by M1104 on Apr 23, 2024 13:41:14 GMT
63/363 could be merged but im guessing there split due to traffic reason ill edit this when i can think of some more One merge I do like, done a good while back, is that of the 170 and 239. The 45 and 118 is heavily speculated for amalgamation for the next contract, giving question to the Clapham Park section that the 45 serves but not the 118. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 23, 2024 13:58:11 GMT
Could Crystal Palace-Aldgate work? TfL did want to remove routes between Aldgate & Liverpool St & the 42 duplicates the 78 between Tower Bridge & Liverpool St. If not cutting the merged 78 back to City Hall or London Bridge would definitely make the merged route more manageable. The same argument could also be made for extending the 388 to Peckham, where the route’s reliability would have been ruined on the Hackney & Stratford end. Still think it’s too long - Tower Bridge just attracts traffic like a magnet. I really don’t see any need to mess with the 78 & 363 and as I’ve already mentioned, really no fan of merging routes for the sake of it It’s not necessarily for the sake of it in the case, I was suggesting it as an alternative to the 388 being extended to Peckham that was initially proposed, which I think is a better idea than that proposal. Because the 388 suggestion didn’t go ahead though I’m happy to leave the 78/363 the way they are now though. |
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Post by rift on Apr 23, 2024 14:16:53 GMT
63/363 could be merged but im guessing there split due to traffic reason ill edit this when i can think of some more One merge I do like, done a good while back, is that of the 170 and 239. The 45 and 118 is heavily speculated for amalgamation for the next contract, giving question to the Clapham Park section that the 45 serves but not the 118. The Clapham Park section could be retained by sending a merged route through Atkins Road and returning to Streatham High Road via the 50 LOR, however reliability could cause a problem knowing that section of the A205. |
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Post by M1104 on Apr 23, 2024 14:25:55 GMT
One merge I do like, done a good while back, is that of the 170 and 239. The 45 and 118 is heavily speculated for amalgamation for the next contract, giving question to the Clapham Park section that the 45 serves but not the 118. The Clapham Park section could be retained by sending a merged route through Atkins Road and returning to Streatham High Road via the 50 LOR, however reliability could cause a problem knowing that section of the A205. The section of Streatham Hill between the South Circular and Streatham Hill Station would then be missed out, unless the route simply doubles back on itself along Streatham Place, like what the 200 does with its Copse Hill routing. Like you said though there is then the traffic issues |
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Post by WH241 on Apr 23, 2024 14:54:28 GMT
What is really achieved by merging routes? Surely the PVR of merged routes would be similar to two separate routes?
The hopper fare can be used for any onward journey that can’t currently be achieved with two separate routes.
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Post by TB123 on Apr 23, 2024 15:54:12 GMT
What is really achieved by merging routes? Surely the PVR of merged routes would be similar to two separate routes? The hopper fare can be used for any onward journey that can’t currently be achieved with two separate routes. Mergers almost always involve 'thinning out' a section of route. The 1/168/188 changes led to a combined PVR saving of around 13. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 16:01:49 GMT
What is really achieved by merging routes? Surely the PVR of merged routes would be similar to two separate routes? The hopper fare can be used for any onward journey that can’t currently be achieved with two separate routes. Mergers almost always involve 'thinning out' a section of route. The 1/168/188 changes led to a combined PVR saving of around 13. And from reports I've heard, not a particularly good service on the newly merged 1 as a result. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2024 16:04:37 GMT
Still think it’s too long - Tower Bridge just attracts traffic like a magnet. I really don’t see any need to mess with the 78 & 363 and as I’ve already mentioned, really no fan of merging routes for the sake of it It’s not necessarily for the sake of it in the case, I was suggesting it as an alternative to the 388 being extended to Peckham that was initially proposed, which I think is a better idea than that proposal. Because the 388 suggestion didn’t go ahead though I’m happy to leave the 78/363 the way they are now though. The 388 proposal from TfL wasn't a great one though - would of left existing 78 customers with a long wielding route at the mercy of traffic around Tower Bridge and whatever obstacles the 388 would have to go through. What I mean by sake of it is if the only reason the merging is being done is just to save money or free up a stand space, it is pretty doing it for the sake of it rather than doing it for the benefit of passengers. |
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