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Post by Trafalgax on Apr 24, 2024 16:03:43 GMT
Where exactly is it on Portland Rise? I never knew there was one there. is your friend  Google Maps doesn't show it, but I believe Portland Rise is blocked off. Only cycles and pedestrians can go through the road now. Perhaps buses did use it before but now I don’t think can be used anymore. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 24, 2024 16:20:44 GMT
Due to zoning, Manor House is a massive railhead and bus routes from there during the peak hours can be rammed. Leave the 279 alone. If I recall the 279 use to run up to Holloway quite earlier in the past and was then cut to Manor House? Or Finsbury Park before Manor House? Is there a specific reason why it cuts short- while the stand is a bit awkward with the U turn and works just fine - the 254 on LTs does it often. Only issue is the only time a route can curtail to Manor House is if its the 254/279 coming from the North/East. I don’t think Ive ever seen a 253/259 curtailment to Manor House and not the 29/141/341 either. Would there not be merit in extending the 279 3 stops further on a road with not much congestion (bus lane) to Finsbury Park Station?? There is a stand on Isledon Road aswell. It long had a service terminating at Manor House as up until 2004 only half the service (every 12 mins) went to Holloway and before that atleats to the 80s the Hammond Street sections of the 279 used to turn there I believe. |
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Post by greg on Apr 24, 2024 16:22:22 GMT
Google Maps doesn't show it, but I believe Portland Rise is blocked off. Only cycles and pedestrians can go through the road now. Perhaps buses did use it before but now I don’t think can be used anymore. I believe this is the case too. The new Manor House blocks by Berkeley are in accordance with this. Gentrification is hitting Seven Sisters Road |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 24, 2024 17:09:44 GMT
Due to zoning, Manor House is a massive railhead and bus routes from there during the peak hours can be rammed. Leave the 279 alone. If I recall the 279 use to run up to Holloway quite earlier in the past and was then cut to Manor House? Or Finsbury Park before Manor House? Is there a specific reason why it cuts short- while the stand is a bit awkward with the U turn and works just fine - the 254 on LTs does it often. Only issue is the only time a route can curtail to Manor House is if its the 254/279 coming from the North/East. I don’t think Ive ever seen a 253/259 curtailment to Manor House and not the 29/141/341 either. Would there not be merit in extending the 279 3 stops further on a road with not much congestion (bus lane) to Finsbury Park Station?? There is a stand on Isledon Road aswell. The 279 ran to Smithfield until 1st February 1992, being part-replaced by the extension of route 153 beyond Angel. From this date half the service terminated at Manor House and half the service continued to/from Holloway, Nags Head. The Holloway journeys were cut back to Manor House from 16th October 2004, the 259 received a substantial frequency increase from the same date. |
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 24, 2024 17:33:03 GMT
Google Maps doesn't show it, but I believe Portland Rise is blocked off. Only cycles and pedestrians can go through the road now. Perhaps buses did use it before but now I don’t think can be used anymore. That's not the only way to access the stand. Buses [on the 141 and 341] proceed to Gloucester Drive to alight, then onto Alexandra Grove and Henry Road to stand on Portland Rise. Seeing as you haven't mentioned any of the other roads and this is still a turn available for other buses, the Portland Rise stand is still accessible. |
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Post by greg on Apr 24, 2024 17:41:35 GMT
If I recall the 279 use to run up to Holloway quite earlier in the past and was then cut to Manor House? Or Finsbury Park before Manor House? Is there a specific reason why it cuts short- while the stand is a bit awkward with the U turn and works just fine - the 254 on LTs does it often. Only issue is the only time a route can curtail to Manor House is if its the 254/279 coming from the North/East. I don’t think Ive ever seen a 253/259 curtailment to Manor House and not the 29/141/341 either. Would there not be merit in extending the 279 3 stops further on a road with not much congestion (bus lane) to Finsbury Park Station?? There is a stand on Isledon Road aswell. The 279 ran to Smithfield until 1st February 1992, being part-replaced by the extension of route 153 beyond Angel. From this date half the service terminated at Manor House and half the service continued to/from Holloway, Nags Head. The Holloway journeys were cut back to Manor House from 16th October 2004, the 259 received a substantial frequency increase from the same date. Thanks for the knowledge! Not that it is completely needed, but I wonder whether if an extension of the 279 to Finsbury Park may be one that is popular? Could help out the 259, and I think be really busy when Thameslink is acting up. Another idea I had is the 349 to Clapton Pond via Upper Clapton Road. The link from Clapton and Lower Clapton to areas such as Edmonton and Seven Sisters is one that’s extremely popular especially with school kids and is not connected by one direct bus already. Stamford Hill is just one big changeover area, and a small extension may just do the job. Keeps the roads a little safer with so many schoolkids around, and If I recall a few months prior two schoolchildren were hit by a swerving 76 bus at the main junction in Stamford Hill crossing the road? |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 118
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 24, 2024 17:53:35 GMT
If I recall the 279 use to run up to Holloway quite earlier in the past and was then cut to Manor House? Or Finsbury Park before Manor House? Is there a specific reason why it cuts short- while the stand is a bit awkward with the U turn and works just fine - the 254 on LTs does it often. Only issue is the only time a route can curtail to Manor House is if its the 254/279 coming from the North/East. I don’t think Ive ever seen a 253/259 curtailment to Manor House and not the 29/141/341 either. Would there not be merit in extending the 279 3 stops further on a road with not much congestion (bus lane) to Finsbury Park Station?? There is a stand on Isledon Road aswell. The 279 ran to Smithfield until 1st February 1992, being part-replaced by the extension of route 153 beyond Angel. From this date half the service terminated at Manor House and half the service continued to/from Holloway, Nags Head. The Holloway journeys were cut back to Manor House from 16th October 2004, the 259 received a substantial frequency increase from the same date. Was the introduction of the 254 a part of why the 279 was fully cut from Holloway, or were the 2 events unrelated? I would by no means want to have the corridor between Seven Sisters and Manor House with the solo 259, which is why I suggested extending the 149, which could save some money whilst also providing a bit more capacity North of Edmonton Green (whilst I know money isn't too much of an issue on TfL's end now, it could help move the budget to more useful bus routes than the 349). Any of the 149 / 259 / 279 could take a slight frequency increase, if things were to get too busy, and if reliability is a concern, the 149 could be cut to Liverpool Street, which whilst it would require a change to continue to London Bridge for most journeys, most links are not broken through the 388 to London Bridge Bus Station and the 35 and 47 just outside it. On another point, the 279 would benefit a lot from an extension to Finsbury Park as greg had said, with the Manor House terminus not allowing easy interchange to other buses such as the 29, due to the approximately 200 metre walk to the nearest 29 bus stop, and the large U-turn required to turn the 279 around, with Manor House also not providing nearly enough onward connections as Finsbury Park. Though I have a question that I'm unsure of how others would react to - would the A10 corridor benefit from a parallel bus route along Watermead Way, once the Meridian Water development has been completed - say, from Edmonton Green, up the North Circular, through part of the Meridian Water development, down Watermead Way, through Tottenham Hale and onward to Seven Sisters and beyond? I think it might work if appropriate bus priority measures are installed along Watermead Way (especially Southbound), and could benefit from being a much higher-speed bus service through faster roads (avoiding a lot of 20mph speed limits). |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 24, 2024 17:58:33 GMT
The 279 ran to Smithfield until 1st February 1992, being part-replaced by the extension of route 153 beyond Angel. From this date half the service terminated at Manor House and half the service continued to/from Holloway, Nags Head. The Holloway journeys were cut back to Manor House from 16th October 2004, the 259 received a substantial frequency increase from the same date. Thanks for the knowledge! Not that it is completely needed, but I wonder whether if an extension of the 279 to Finsbury Park may be one that is popular? Could help out the 259, and I think be really busy when Thameslink is acting up. Another idea I had is the 349 to Clapton Pond via Upper Clapton Road. The link from Clapton and Lower Clapton to areas such as Edmonton and Seven Sisters is one that’s extremely popular especially with school kids and is not connected by one direct bus already. Stamford Hill is just one big changeover area, and a small extension may just do the job. Keeps the roads a little safer with so many schoolkids around, and If I recall a few months prior two schoolchildren were hit by a swerving 76 bus at the main junction in Stamford Hill crossing the road? I think there is merit in sending the 349 on to Clapton. I would go one further and extend it to Hackney Central, and divert the 253 at Lower Clapton to run to Homerton Hospital direct via Urswick Road. I suppose the main issue would be driver changeovers for the 253, at present they take place at CT which makes them far easier to manage. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 24, 2024 18:08:39 GMT
The 279 ran to Smithfield until 1st February 1992, being part-replaced by the extension of route 153 beyond Angel. From this date half the service terminated at Manor House and half the service continued to/from Holloway, Nags Head. The Holloway journeys were cut back to Manor House from 16th October 2004, the 259 received a substantial frequency increase from the same date. Was the introduction of the 254 a part of why the 279 was fully cut from Holloway, or were the 2 events unrelated? I would by no means want to have the corridor between Seven Sisters and Manor House with the solo 259, which is why I suggested extending the 149, which could save some money whilst also providing a bit more capacity North of Edmonton Green (whilst I know money isn't too much of an issue on TfL's end now, it could help move the budget to more useful bus routes than the 349). Any of the 149 / 259 / 279 could take a slight frequency increase, if things were to get too busy, and if reliability is a concern, the 149 could be cut to Liverpool Street, which whilst it would require a change to continue to London Bridge for most journeys, most links are not broken through the 388 to London Bridge Bus Station and the 35 and 47 just outside it. On another point, the 279 would benefit a lot from an extension to Finsbury Park as greg had said, with the Manor House terminus not allowing easy interchange to other buses such as the 29, due to the approximately 200 metre walk to the nearest 29 bus stop, and the large U-turn required to turn the 279 around, with Manor House also not providing nearly enough onward connections as Finsbury Park. Though I have a question that I'm unsure of how others would react to - would the A10 corridor benefit from a parallel bus route along Watermead Way, once the Meridian Water development has been completed - say, from Edmonton Green, up the North Circular, through part of the Meridian Water development, down Watermead Way, through Tottenham Hale and onward to Seven Sisters and beyond? I think it might work if appropriate bus priority measures are installed along Watermead Way (especially Southbound), and could benefit from being a much higher-speed bus service through faster roads (avoiding a lot of 20mph speed limits). No the 254 was unrelated and took place in May 2003. In effect the 253 was already operated as two overlapping sections (Euston-Hackney and Holloway-Aldgate) and the introduction of the 254 merely formalised that arrangement. I'm not convinced extending the 279 to Finsbury Park would be worthwhile. Finsbury Park is congested and such an extension would be time-consuming, and when journeys operated to Holloway they were generally under-used beyond Manor House. The 259 provides an alternative for most journeys. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 118
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 24, 2024 18:11:02 GMT
Thanks for the knowledge! Not that it is completely needed, but I wonder whether if an extension of the 279 to Finsbury Park may be one that is popular? Could help out the 259, and I think be really busy when Thameslink is acting up. Another idea I had is the 349 to Clapton Pond via Upper Clapton Road. The link from Clapton and Lower Clapton to areas such as Edmonton and Seven Sisters is one that’s extremely popular especially with school kids and is not connected by one direct bus already. Stamford Hill is just one big changeover area, and a small extension may just do the job. Keeps the roads a little safer with so many schoolkids around, and If I recall a few months prior two schoolchildren were hit by a swerving 76 bus at the main junction in Stamford Hill crossing the road? I think there is merit in sending the 349 on to Clapton. I would go one further and extend it to Hackney Central, and divert the 253 at Lower Clapton to run to Homerton Hospital direct via Urswick Road. I suppose the main issue would be driver changeovers for the 253, at present they take place at CT which makes them far easier to manage. I thought it was also a problem of bus type - I think LTs failed a route test around Homerton Hospital, meaning that Clapton garage would either need to introduce a new bus type that is shorter, or move the 253 to another bus garage. |
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Post by wirewiper on Apr 24, 2024 18:15:02 GMT
I think there is merit in sending the 349 on to Clapton. I would go one further and extend it to Hackney Central, and divert the 253 at Lower Clapton to run to Homerton Hospital direct via Urswick Road. I suppose the main issue would be driver changeovers for the 253, at present they take place at CT which makes them far easier to manage. I thought it was also a problem of bus type - I think LTs failed a route test around Homerton Hospital, meaning that Clapton garage would either need to introduce a new bus type that is shorter, or move the 253 to another bus garage. You could be right - I can see LTs having problems around Homerton Hospital. TfL and its predecessors have always seemed reluctant to provide that 'round-the-corner' link at Stamford Hill. |
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ZiyQ
Conductor
I always end up saying too much - beware of the waffle posts taking up an entire thread’s page…
Posts: 118
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Post by ZiyQ on Apr 24, 2024 18:15:39 GMT
The 279 ran to Smithfield until 1st February 1992, being part-replaced by the extension of route 153 beyond Angel. From this date half the service terminated at Manor House and half the service continued to/from Holloway, Nags Head. The Holloway journeys were cut back to Manor House from 16th October 2004, the 259 received a substantial frequency increase from the same date. Thanks for the knowledge! Not that it is completely needed, but I wonder whether if an extension of the 279 to Finsbury Park may be one that is popular? Could help out the 259, and I think be really busy when Thameslink is acting up. Another idea I had is the 349 to Clapton Pond via Upper Clapton Road. The link from Clapton and Lower Clapton to areas such as Edmonton and Seven Sisters is one that’s extremely popular especially with school kids and is not connected by one direct bus already. Stamford Hill is just one big changeover area, and a small extension may just do the job. Keeps the roads a little safer with so many schoolkids around, and If I recall a few months prior two schoolchildren were hit by a swerving 76 bus at the main junction in Stamford Hill crossing the road? The 279 would definitely benefit from an extension like this, but the point that is often brought up is overbussing the Manor House - Finsbury Park corridor, and stand space (but there seems to be quite a lot of unused stand space on both Isledon and Coleridge roads). I would go even further if the 349 was kept and extended, and would extend it to Hackney Central via the 56's routing, which would introduce further direct links from Enfield and Tottenham into that part of London. |
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Post by Alexis on Apr 24, 2024 18:18:06 GMT
Google is your friend I didn't see you address that in a previous post before writing, sorry for that. As much as it isn't an ideal situation given the previous scope in the TfL: Super Broke era, this is one of those changes that make sense. The 436 being diverted to terminate at Battersea Park was an example of saving resources with very little benefit for passengers. GAL and its drivers have the expertise to run cross-city routes like TB123 has said, including the 108 which is run pretty well given the immense challenges that's unique to it. I get I'm not going to convince you that the 1 and 168 should've been left alone, but given the amount of garbage in the central London consultation a couple years ago this is a marked improvement. No worries and I certainly agree with you that Go-Ahead do as best a job as possible with the likes of the 88 and the old 11 routing in the centre of town and the 108 that you mention. Maybe I'll be convinced when I finally get a chance to actually sample the extended 1 myself, I'll certainly post either way whenever that happens  I've driven the extended 1 a fair bit and it does seem to work pretty well in my experience. The main problem area is when traffic from Tower Bridge backs up but on bad days the controllers do divert some buses down Old Kent Road to maintain the service along the whole route. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 24, 2024 19:20:00 GMT
Google Maps doesn't show it, but I believe Portland Rise is blocked off. Only cycles and pedestrians can go through the road now. Perhaps buses did use it before but now I don’t think can be used anymore. That's not the only way to access the stand. Buses [on the 141 and 341] proceed to Gloucester Drive to alight, then onto Alexandra Grove and Henry Road to stand on Portland Rise. Seeing as you haven't mentioned any of the other roads and this is still a turn available for other buses, the Portland Rise stand is still accessible. I don’t think the 279 would be able to use this stand for 2 reasons: Portland Road is closed off & the right turn from Green Lanes to Seven Sisters Road is banned. I wouldn’t mind having the 279 terminate at Finsbury Park interchange, with the 106 moving to the Isledon Road stand to create space, the 106’s final stop would now be stop S instead of stop AP. The 106’s stops towards Whitechapel would not change. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Apr 24, 2024 19:26:41 GMT
I thought it was also a problem of bus type - I think LTs failed a route test around Homerton Hospital, meaning that Clapton garage would either need to introduce a new bus type that is shorter, or move the 253 to another bus garage. You could be right - I can see LTs having problems around Homerton Hospital. TfL and its predecessors have always seemed reluctant to provide that 'round-the-corner' link at Stamford Hill. Wasn’t there a proposal to extend the 425 towards Tottenham via Stamford Hill back when the route was only running between Stratford & Clapton? I think I would have preferred this, with the 25 shorts being reintroduced between Stratford & Ilford. |
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