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Post by matthieu1221 on May 31, 2024 1:00:54 GMT
The 414 has seemed like low hanging fruit for cuts for years and serves even less purpose since the Marble Arch cut back, I always thought some of the proposals to cut back on duplication would inevitably be reheated at some point. The ridiculous 6 rerouting via Park Lane ultimately killed the 414. The 74 retains links to Park Lane for many, not that I've ever seen a 414 with more than three people on it up there. Not sure about the 14's frequency increase though as I see others have pointed out. In my experience there are fairly generous levels of bus capacity along Piccadilly as it is, in all honesty, I'm surprised there hasn't been a renewed effort to rationalise the 14/19/38 duplication. Perhaps the solution would have been to truncate the 414 to South Kensington instead seeing as TFL standardisation is anti-short workings so it would effectively be a 14B in all but name. To free up the South Kensington stand, I would reroute the 430 up to Hammersmith to aid the 220, thus solving quite a few problems in one go. Also, on the subject of the Putney routes, I'm still not convinced that the 22 to Oxo has worked either. Ive always hoped one day (would never happen) that TFL swap the 24/38 routings between Cambridge Circus and Victoria. It reduces the duplication and adds new and unserved links for both routes. The only minor issue I can see with it is Victoria Street getting two buses towards Hackney albeit different routings in Central London which may not be needed, and another route further south being removed, both the 26/38 would finish at Victoria leaving the 11/148 only routes heading south. If it was to happen, the 29/88 would be the replacement for any broken 24 links other than Victoria Street, which is a short walk away from Parliament Square and the 24 would still serve Victoria. I think the 14/19/24 via Piccadilly and 29/38/176 via TSQ would be much more useful I'm a big proponent of the swap too. It cuts 5-10 minutes off the 24's journey time when it is diverted via HPC. The only loss would be the Camden Town <-> Parliament link which tourists seem to like though the 88 could be advertised more to replace it -- speaking of which, the Camden Town <-> Oxford Circus/Piccadilly Circus link seems underrated and never very well noticed by tourists.
I'm not asking for full on route branding but some big posters/signs at major stops/tourist attractions advertising the best route to link to other major attractions would be nice.
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Post by bk10mfe on May 31, 2024 7:20:37 GMT
Sending the 8 back to Victoria could work, I’d imagine it wouldn’t be any harder to manage that route than the current 26. You would need to remove LT’s from the 8 but the 8 could easily swap vehicles with the 205. I imagine if the 22 isn’t needed to run to Oxford Circus anymore, you could probably merge it with the 11 into a Putney Common-Waterloo route, which on the whole would make more savings for TfL. I would be against any idea of touching the 11 - let it breathe in it's new role now it can be actually relied on turn up without much issue rather than making further unnecessary cuts - the network needs to start growing again rather than continually making ineffective mergers just for financial affairs. I have noticed the 22 has somewhat struggled with loadings & I think the closure of Sloane Street northbound (which has been in place for over a year now) isn’t doing the route any favours. |
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Post by greenboy on May 31, 2024 8:42:49 GMT
It's not often the case but I do hope the wealthy residents in the Chelsea area continue to fight for the 19 for decades to come. Maybe all of them are Arsenal supporters and take the 19 to Highbury on match days!   Think it's unanimous to say that no route that has trundled through Mayfair in the past 15 years has been a success. Seeing as the Elizabeth line is running and TfL are proposing lengthier routes, perhaps this is the chance for the 8 to be reinstated to Victoria. It would kill a few birds with a single stone, one of which is giving east London a proper link back to Oxford Street. Or another route, if people deviate from labelling the 55 being a north-east London route. Sending the 8 back to Victoria could work, I’d imagine it wouldn’t be any harder to manage that route than the current 26. You would need to remove LT’s from the 8 but the 8 could easily swap vehicles with the 205. I imagine if the 22 isn’t needed to run to Oxford Circus anymore, you could probably merge it with the 11 into a Putney Common-Waterloo route, which on the whole would make more savings for TfL. That all makes sense to me, the 11 is just a fairly short route now and rerouting it to Putney Common replacing the 22 should work well, the 19 would be adequate between Kings Road and Green Park and whilst the round the corner link to Fulham Broadway would be lost the 211 could perhaps be rerouted? |
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Post by greg on May 31, 2024 8:45:35 GMT
Ive always hoped one day (would never happen) that TFL swap the 24/38 routings between Cambridge Circus and Victoria. It reduces the duplication and adds new and unserved links for both routes. The only minor issue I can see with it is Victoria Street getting two buses towards Hackney albeit different routings in Central London which may not be needed, and another route further south being removed, both the 26/38 would finish at Victoria leaving the 11/148 only routes heading south. If it was to happen, the 29/88 would be the replacement for any broken 24 links other than Victoria Street, which is a short walk away from Parliament Square and the 24 would still serve Victoria. I think the 14/19/24 via Piccadilly and 29/38/176 via TSQ would be much more useful I'm a big proponent of the swap too. It cuts 5-10 minutes off the 24's journey time when it is diverted via HPC. The only loss would be the Camden Town <-> Parliament link which tourists seem to like though the 88 could be advertised more to replace it -- speaking of which, the Camden Town <-> Oxford Circus/Piccadilly Circus link seems underrated and never very well noticed by tourists.
I'm not asking for full on route branding but some big posters/signs at major stops/tourist attractions advertising the best route to link to other major attractions would be nice.
Exactly that. And if any tourist wants to go Parliament, they could get off at Constituition Hill between Green Park ane HPC and walk via Buckingham Palace Road |
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Post by greenboy on May 31, 2024 8:54:18 GMT
The 414 has seemed like low hanging fruit for cuts for years and serves even less purpose since the Marble Arch cut back, I always thought some of the proposals to cut back on duplication would inevitably be reheated at some point. The ridiculous 6 rerouting via Park Lane ultimately killed the 414. The 74 retains links to Park Lane for many, not that I've ever seen a 414 with more than three people on it up there. Not sure about the 14's frequency increase though as I see others have pointed out. In my experience there are fairly generous levels of bus capacity along Piccadilly as it is, in all honesty, I'm surprised there hasn't been a renewed effort to rationalise the 14/19/38 duplication. Perhaps the solution would have been to truncate the 414 to South Kensington instead seeing as TFL standardisation is anti-short workings so it would effectively be a 14B in all but name. To free up the South Kensington stand, I would reroute the 430 up to Hammersmith to aid the 220, thus solving quite a few problems in one go. Also, on the subject of the Putney routes, I'm still not convinced that the 22 to Oxo has worked either. Ive always hoped one day (would never happen) that TFL swap the 24/38 routings between Cambridge Circus and Victoria. It reduces the duplication and adds new and unserved links for both routes. The only minor issue I can see with it is Victoria Street getting two buses towards Hackney albeit different routings in Central London which may not be needed, and another route further south being removed, both the 26/38 would finish at Victoria leaving the 11/148 only routes heading south. If it was to happen, the 29/88 would be the replacement for any broken 24 links other than Victoria Street, which is a short walk away from Parliament Square and the 24 would still serve Victoria. I think the 14/19/24 via Piccadilly and 29/38/176 via TSQ would be much more useful Interesting idea to swap the 24 and 38, the only potential problems I can see are the loss of the link between Pimlico and Victoria Street and I don't know if it would cause any problems not having empty buses starting from Victoria to Piccadilly Circus etc? |
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Post by bk10mfe on May 31, 2024 13:29:28 GMT
Sending the 8 back to Victoria could work, I’d imagine it wouldn’t be any harder to manage that route than the current 26. You would need to remove LT’s from the 8 but the 8 could easily swap vehicles with the 205. I imagine if the 22 isn’t needed to run to Oxford Circus anymore, you could probably merge it with the 11 into a Putney Common-Waterloo route, which on the whole would make more savings for TfL. That all makes sense to me, the 11 is just a fairly short route now and rerouting it to Putney Common replacing the 22 should work well, the 19 would be adequate between Kings Road and Green Park and whilst the round the corner link to Fulham Broadway would be lost the 211 could perhaps be rerouted? I would keep the 211 on its current routing to not break links to Chelsea & Westminster Hospital (14 would then be the only route serving outside the hospital when the 414 gets withdrawn). Perhaps though the 306 to Chelsea worlds end to keep the round corner link & 28 rerouted through Sands End could work though. I don’t particularly like that there isn’t a direct link from the Sands End area to Wandsworth I actually think that it could be well utilised. |
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Post by vjaska on May 31, 2024 13:52:09 GMT
That all makes sense to me, the 11 is just a fairly short route now and rerouting it to Putney Common replacing the 22 should work well, the 19 would be adequate between Kings Road and Green Park and whilst the round the corner link to Fulham Broadway would be lost the 211 could perhaps be rerouted? I would keep the 211 on its current routing to not break links to Chelsea & Westminster Hospital (14 would then be the only route serving outside the hospital when the 414 gets withdrawn). Perhaps though the 306 to Chelsea worlds end to keep the round corner link & 28 rerouted through Sands End could work though. I don’t particularly like that there isn’t a direct link from the Sands End area to Wandsworth I actually think that it could be well utilised. I don't believe the 28 should be re-routed - going through Sands End would add extra time to a route that already has it's issues at it is and it's higher frequency is probably unnecessary for that area. I also imagine Worlds End residents may not welcome the 306 alongside the 328 at Worlds End and the 328 doesn't need any modifying to it at that end. If you want to best achieve a Sands End to Wandsworth link, an extension of the 306 is really the best solution with no changes to other routes. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 31, 2024 15:28:22 GMT
I would keep the 211 on its current routing to not break links to Chelsea & Westminster Hospital (14 would then be the only route serving outside the hospital when the 414 gets withdrawn). Perhaps though the 306 to Chelsea worlds end to keep the round corner link & 28 rerouted through Sands End could work though. I don’t particularly like that there isn’t a direct link from the Sands End area to Wandsworth I actually think that it could be well utilised. I don't believe the 28 should be re-routed - going through Sands End would add extra time to a route that already has it's issues at it is and it's higher frequency is probably unnecessary for that area. I also imagine Worlds End residents may not welcome the 306 alongside the 328 at Worlds End and the 328 doesn't need any modifying to it at that end. If you want to best achieve a Sands End to Wandsworth link, an extension of the 306 is really the best solution with no changes to other routes. I have to admit when there was that two or so weeks between us hearing the C3 was being axed and the consultation coming out I did think the proposal might have been to extend the 306 to Clapham Junction. |
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Post by greg on May 31, 2024 17:12:06 GMT
Ive always hoped one day (would never happen) that TFL swap the 24/38 routings between Cambridge Circus and Victoria. It reduces the duplication and adds new and unserved links for both routes. The only minor issue I can see with it is Victoria Street getting two buses towards Hackney albeit different routings in Central London which may not be needed, and another route further south being removed, both the 26/38 would finish at Victoria leaving the 11/148 only routes heading south. If it was to happen, the 29/88 would be the replacement for any broken 24 links other than Victoria Street, which is a short walk away from Parliament Square and the 24 would still serve Victoria. I think the 14/19/24 via Piccadilly and 29/38/176 via TSQ would be much more useful Interesting idea to swap the 24 and 38, the only potential problems I can see are the loss of the link between Pimlico and Victoria Street and I don't know if it would cause any problems not having empty buses starting from Victoria to Piccadilly Circus etc? I dont think Ive seen anyone at Victoria Street board a bus to Pimlico to be honest. The residential 24 routing isnt all that with demand, usually the only person on the bus after Victoria Station every time ive ridden it. Anyone for Pimlico would most likely board using the 2/36/185 which also share a common stop. And as for the latter, it would be difficult without that bus station lining up agreement which might cause some congestion at the current 24 bus stop in Victoria outside the Theatre, but the 24 is mostly empty between Pimlico amd Victoria anyway, so theyre probably going to be on an empty bus already. The only peak I would see is students for Pimlico Academy but even then those students dominate the 360/C10 and 2/36/185 rather than the 24 |
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Post by COBO on May 31, 2024 17:21:58 GMT
When is this consultation going to be live?
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Post by southlondon413 on May 31, 2024 17:37:50 GMT
When is this consultation going to be live? Probably not until after the election despite the launch of a 241 extension consultation. Extensions are normally positive things and wouldn’t attract much attention. A 414 withdrawal would no doubt bring every candidate along the route out with “vote for me and I’ll stop this” campaigns. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 31, 2024 18:54:49 GMT
When is this consultation going to be live? Probably not until after the election despite the launch of a 241 extension consultation. Extensions are normally positive things and wouldn’t attract much attention. A 414 withdrawal would no doubt bring every candidate along the route out with “vote for me and I’ll stop this” campaigns. I wonder if the 310 one could launch or whether that would be seen as an advantage to a particular party. I notice there has been no announcement by Khan that the Friday no peak fare trial has ended according to the media. To have extended it might have broken purdah rules. |
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Post by southlondon413 on May 31, 2024 19:13:25 GMT
Probably not until after the election despite the launch of a 241 extension consultation. Extensions are normally positive things and wouldn’t attract much attention. A 414 withdrawal would no doubt bring every candidate along the route out with “vote for me and I’ll stop this” campaigns. I wonder if the 310 one could launch or whether that would be seen as an advantage to a particular party. I notice there has been no announcement by Khan that the Friday no peak fare trial has ended according to the media. To have extended it might have broken purdah rules. If the 310 is a new route then maybe but if it’s a split of the 110 then perhaps not. As for the Friday fares TfL could have easily extended it on the quiet. I suspect it hasn’t been successful, the pennies saved just don’t justify a Friday in the office. |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 31, 2024 19:27:24 GMT
I wonder if the 310 one could launch or whether that would be seen as an advantage to a particular party. I notice there has been no announcement by Khan that the Friday no peak fare trial has ended according to the media. To have extended it might have broken purdah rules. If the 310 is a new route then maybe but if it’s a split of the 110 then perhaps not. As for the Friday fares TfL could have easily extended it on the quiet. I suspect it hasn’t been successful, the pennies saved just don’t justify a Friday in the office. That would be my thoughts. Good to try things but £25m for 3 months would be hard to justify if it hadn't pulled in much extra revenue. |
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Post by southlondon413 on May 31, 2024 19:30:20 GMT
If the 310 is a new route then maybe but if it’s a split of the 110 then perhaps not. As for the Friday fares TfL could have easily extended it on the quiet. I suspect it hasn’t been successful, the pennies saved just don’t justify a Friday in the office. That would be my thoughts. Good to try things but £25m for 3 months would be hard to justify if it hadn't pulled in much extra revenue. The practicalities just don’t work out. No one who is going out on a Friday night in town is going into the office because chances are they’d have to lug their laptops around with them in case of weekend emergencies or work from home Mondays. It’s easier to just not bother and then by that point you’ll just stay local or order a takeaway at home. |
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