|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 4, 2024 1:00:32 GMT
We don't know if there is even a plan - all what was said sounded like the stock replies that TfL give out when you email them. There is no guarantee the 603 will change at all. |
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 4, 2024 10:44:56 GMT
We don't know if there is even a plan - all what was said sounded like the stock replies that TfL give out when you email them. There is no guarantee the 603 will change at all. It sounds like parents are simply asking for more buses on the 603. I recall a blog (diamond geezer, I think) where someone rode the 603 during a school holiday and found that it wasn’t just used by school children. The 603 does provide some really handy links, so it perhaps isn’t surprising to find adults seeking out a 603. If TfL deems it sufficient, I would have thought a trial running of the 603 between 7am and 7pm would establish whether to provide a permanent service or add a couple of extra journeys each day. I don’t see a need to do anything with the 46 or for any crayonista style extensions of existing routes. Now that TfL have all the extra revenue from the Lizzie Line and bus ridership is increasing, it seems that there is an appetite to enhance and expand the bus network. TfL have definitely turned a corner from the days of 2019 and the Mike Brown days of buses = danger. |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Sept 4, 2024 11:15:07 GMT
We don't know if there is even a plan - all what was said sounded like the stock replies that TfL give out when you email them. There is no guarantee the 603 will change at all. It sounds like parents are simply asking for more buses on the 603. I recall a blog (diamond geezer, I think) where someone rode the 603 during a school holiday and found that it wasn’t just used by school children. The 603 does provide some really handy links, so it perhaps isn’t surprising to find adults seeking out a 603. If TfL deems it sufficient, I would have thought a trial running of the 603 between 7am and 7pm would establish whether to provide a permanent service or add a couple of extra journeys each day. I don’t see a need to do anything with the 46 or for any crayonista style extensions of existing routes. Now that TfL have all the extra revenue from the Lizzie Line and bus ridership is increasing, it seems that there is an appetite to enhance and expand the bus network. TfL have definitely turned a corner from the days of 2019 and the Mike Brown days of buses = danger. A trial could be a good idea to start with - but if there is demand for a permanent route, it may be excessive to introduce a new route in addition to the current network in the area, particularly with the 310 introduced as well. It seems the main demand on the 603 corridor is specifically for a direct link between Hampstead and Highgate, which the 210 and C11 don't quite cover. In my opinion, a revised C11 would be the best way of covering this link, as it would also link other areas in between around Hampstead Heath, Gospel Oak and Parliament Hill (as well as already serving Swiss Cottage) - compared to the more rural section along Hampstead Lane. This could either just involve some rerouteings to allow the C11 to directly serve both Hampstead and Highgate Villages - swapping with some sections of the 46 and 214. Or perhaps a split of the C11, with the Brent Cross to Swiss Cottage section extending elsewhere to provide new links. For example could go via Primrose Hill and Camden Town to terminate at Canal Reach in Kings Cross, or extend from Brent Cross to Mill Hill East? If the 603's link from Highgate to Muswell Hill is needed, I would suggest to just divert the 234 through Highgate Village (perhaps swapping with the 263 reverting to Archway Road). |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 4, 2024 11:38:53 GMT
We don't know if there is even a plan - all what was said sounded like the stock replies that TfL give out when you email them. There is no guarantee the 603 will change at all. It sounds like parents are simply asking for more buses on the 603. I recall a blog (diamond geezer, I think) where someone rode the 603 during a school holiday and found that it wasn’t just used by school children. The 603 does provide some really handy links, so it perhaps isn’t surprising to find adults seeking out a 603. If TfL deems it sufficient, I would have thought a trial running of the 603 between 7am and 7pm would establish whether to provide a permanent service or add a couple of extra journeys each day. I don’t see a need to do anything with the 46 or for any crayonista style extensions of existing routes. Now that TfL have all the extra revenue from the Lizzie Line and bus ridership is increasing, it seems that there is an appetite to enhance and expand the bus network. TfL have definitely turned a corner from the days of 2019 and the Mike Brown days of buses = danger. I don’t think buses have necessarily turned a corner and I think it solely depends on where you live - my borough has just seen yet more cuts proposed that will be implemented on top of all the cuts it’s seen over the last number of years. The 603 isn’t just used by school children as you mention though that’s not really a new discovery as I think it’s been well known to TfL for a couple of decades now. If they want to do something with it, a trial would be a good way of going about it. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 4, 2024 13:15:06 GMT
It sounds like parents are simply asking for more buses on the 603. I recall a blog (diamond geezer, I think) where someone rode the 603 during a school holiday and found that it wasn’t just used by school children. The 603 does provide some really handy links, so it perhaps isn’t surprising to find adults seeking out a 603. If TfL deems it sufficient, I would have thought a trial running of the 603 between 7am and 7pm would establish whether to provide a permanent service or add a couple of extra journeys each day. I don’t see a need to do anything with the 46 or for any crayonista style extensions of existing routes. Now that TfL have all the extra revenue from the Lizzie Line and bus ridership is increasing, it seems that there is an appetite to enhance and expand the bus network. TfL have definitely turned a corner from the days of 2019 and the Mike Brown days of buses = danger. I don’t think buses have necessarily turned a corner and I think it solely depends on where you live - my borough has just seen yet more cuts proposed that will be implemented on top of all the cuts it’s seen over the last number of years. The 603 isn’t just used by school children as you mention though that’s not really a new discovery as I think it’s been well known to TfL for a couple of decades now. If they want to do something with it, a trial would be a good way of going about it. I seem to recall the page on London bus routes for the 603 said if it did go all day then it would have to use SDs due to residents concerns about DDs outside the school times. I wonder if that would still be an issue now? |
|
|
|
Post by sdaniel on Sept 4, 2024 13:22:28 GMT
We don't know if there is even a plan - all what was said sounded like the stock replies that TfL give out when you email them. There is no guarantee the 603 will change at all. It sounds like parents are simply asking for more buses on the 603. I recall a blog (diamond geezer, I think) where someone rode the 603 during a school holiday and found that it wasn’t just used by school children. The 603 does provide some really handy links, so it perhaps isn’t surprising to find adults seeking out a 603. If TfL deems it sufficient, I would have thought a trial running of the 603 between 7am and 7pm would establish whether to provide a permanent service or add a couple of extra journeys each day. I don’t see a need to do anything with the 46 or for any crayonista style extensions of existing routes. Now that TfL have all the extra revenue from the Lizzie Line and bus ridership is increasing, it seems that there is an appetite to enhance and expand the bus network. TfL have definitely turned a corner from the days of 2019 and the Mike Brown days of buses = danger. The reason I suggested a revised 46 is because 46 is so indirect between Rosslyn Hill and Swiss Cottage, not to mention how short of a route 268 is. The 13 already serves Golders Green from Finchley Road and Swiss Cottage and the northern line already serves Hampstead and Belsize Park stations from Golders Green Station so the current 268 doesn’t really provide that much use in my opinion. Concerning a trial, I’m in support of that but I think it should end at 9pm because with the 310’s case being the trial ending at 7pm each day, 210 serves most of the route and it’s just a walk for the 253. But 603 has no bus following it and the interchanges aren’t very close. |
|
|
|
Post by sdaniel on Sept 4, 2024 13:29:01 GMT
I don’t think buses have necessarily turned a corner and I think it solely depends on where you live - my borough has just seen yet more cuts proposed that will be implemented on top of all the cuts it’s seen over the last number of years. The 603 isn’t just used by school children as you mention though that’s not really a new discovery as I think it’s been well known to TfL for a couple of decades now. If they want to do something with it, a trial would be a good way of going about it. I seem to recall the page on London bus routes for the 603 said if it did go all day then it would have to use SDs due to residents concerns about DDs outside the school times. I wonder if that would still be an issue now? That doesn’t make sense at all and yes that would be a concern. 210 has DD’s along Hampstead Lane. 263 has DD’s between Highgate Village and East Finchley 102 has DD’s between East Finchley to Muswell Hill. So why would 603 go to SD’s? |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 4, 2024 14:09:36 GMT
I seem to recall the page on London bus routes for the 603 said if it did go all day then it would have to use SDs due to residents concerns about DDs outside the school times. I wonder if that would still be an issue now? That doesn’t make sense at all and yes that would be a concern. 210 has DD’s along Hampstead Lane. 263 has DD’s between Highgate Village and East Finchley 102 has DD’s between East Finchley to Muswell Hill. So why would 603 go to SD’s? The section that follows the 46 between Swiss Cottage & Hampstead doesn't have a regular double deck route besides the 603 itself so presumably that's what southlondonbus was referring to what he read regarding residents concerns. It sounds like NIBMYISM from those residents given the area but that's just my personal view. Replying to your previous post, just because the 268 is short doesn't mean you automatically start changing routes. A good transport network has a mix of different variety of routes ranging from direct routes to indirect routes, short routes to long routes, etc. I don't know if the 46 & 268 need changing, not my area to say but there needs to be a realisation that a mix of routes is the only way to get a coherent and successful network. |
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Sept 4, 2024 14:12:59 GMT
It sounds like parents are simply asking for more buses on the 603. I recall a blog (diamond geezer, I think) where someone rode the 603 during a school holiday and found that it wasn’t just used by school children. The 603 does provide some really handy links, so it perhaps isn’t surprising to find adults seeking out a 603. If TfL deems it sufficient, I would have thought a trial running of the 603 between 7am and 7pm would establish whether to provide a permanent service or add a couple of extra journeys each day. I don’t see a need to do anything with the 46 or for any crayonista style extensions of existing routes. Now that TfL have all the extra revenue from the Lizzie Line and bus ridership is increasing, it seems that there is an appetite to enhance and expand the bus network. TfL have definitely turned a corner from the days of 2019 and the Mike Brown days of buses = danger. The reason I suggested a revised 46 is because 46 is so indirect between Rosslyn Hill and Swiss Cottage, not to mention how short of a route 268 is. The 13 already serves Golders Green from Finchley Road and Swiss Cottage and the northern line already serves Hampstead and Belsize Park stations from Golders Green Station so the current 268 doesn’t really provide that much use in my opinion. Concerning a trial, I’m in support of that but I think it should end at 9pm because with the 310’s case being the trial ending at 7pm each day, 210 serves most of the route and it’s just a walk for the 253. But 603 has no bus following it and the interchanges aren’t very close. You've just reminded me that the tiles on the 310 don't say 'except evenings' on the bottom at bus stops. A rather misleading omission for a route of many firsts: -First route to start on a Sunday -First route potentially ever to be awarded to the highest bidder -First route to launch with a live consultation simultaneously rather than preceding it -First route to say 3-1-0 on iBus announcements when routes ending with a 0 (exluding the hundreds) announce like 2-10, 2-30, etc. -First route to go by, but not stop at both bus stations at Finsbury Park -First route to link Stamford Hill to Golders Green -First route to be operated by Stagecoach in Highgate Village, Hampstead Heath and Golders Green -First time a trial bus route has been launched from TfL |
|
|
|
Post by kmkcheng on Sept 4, 2024 14:33:53 GMT
You've just reminded me that the tiles on the 310 don't say 'except evenings' on the bottom at bus stops. A rather misleading omission for a route of many firsts: -First route to start on a Sunday -First route potentially ever to be awarded to the highest bidder -First route to launch with a live consultation simultaneously rather than preceding it -First route to say 3-1-0 on iBus announcements when routes ending with a 0 (exluding the hundreds) announce like 2-10, 2-30, etc. -First route to go by, but not stop at both bus stations at Finsbury Park -First route to link Stamford Hill to Golders Green -First route to be operated by Stagecoach in Highgate Village, Hampstead Heath and Golders Green -First time a trial bus route has been launched from TfL There have been some examples of the highest bidder being awarded the contract. One example I can think of is the H13 which Metroline won as the lowest bidder (RATP) didn’t have space. Also going to be really, really pedantic here but if a route only has one bidder, the lowest bidder is also going to be the highest bidder 😁 |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 4, 2024 14:40:03 GMT
That doesn’t make sense at all and yes that would be a concern. 210 has DD’s along Hampstead Lane. 263 has DD’s between Highgate Village and East Finchley 102 has DD’s between East Finchley to Muswell Hill. So why would 603 go to SD’s? The section that follows the 46 between Swiss Cottage & Hampstead doesn't have a regular double deck route besides the 603 itself so presumably that's what southlondonbus was referring to what he read regarding residents concerns. It sounds like NIBMYISM from those residents given the area but that's just my personal view. Replying to your previous post, just because the 268 is short doesn't mean you automatically start changing routes. A good transport network has a mix of different variety of routes ranging from direct routes to indirect routes, short routes to long routes, etc. I don't know if the 46 & 268 need changing, not my area to say but there needs to be a realisation that a mix of routes is the only way to get a coherent and successful network. I think when the article was written (2006) the 210 was still restricted to SDs due in part to residents objections in properties by the Heath so the writer was probably thinking the 603 would fall foul aswell bar the odd journey. Obviously since then the 210 has gone DD so it probably wouldn't be an issue now. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 4, 2024 15:31:31 GMT
The section that follows the 46 between Swiss Cottage & Hampstead doesn't have a regular double deck route besides the 603 itself so presumably that's what southlondonbus was referring to what he read regarding residents concerns. It sounds like NIBMYISM from those residents given the area but that's just my personal view. Replying to your previous post, just because the 268 is short doesn't mean you automatically start changing routes. A good transport network has a mix of different variety of routes ranging from direct routes to indirect routes, short routes to long routes, etc. I don't know if the 46 & 268 need changing, not my area to say but there needs to be a realisation that a mix of routes is the only way to get a coherent and successful network. I think when the article was written (2006) the 210 was still restricted to SDs due in part to residents objections in properties by the Heath so the writer was probably thinking the 603 would fall foul aswell bar the odd journey. Obviously since then the 210 has gone DD so it probably wouldn't be an issue now. Fair enough, I stand corrected on guessing what you was referring to, apologies. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 4, 2024 16:39:06 GMT
I think when the article was written (2006) the 210 was still restricted to SDs due in part to residents objections in properties by the Heath so the writer was probably thinking the 603 would fall foul aswell bar the odd journey. Obviously since then the 210 has gone DD so it probably wouldn't be an issue now. Fair enough, I stand corrected on guessing what you was referring to, apologies. You are right that there would definitely have been some NIMBYism there as opposed to any real issues as the 210 did eventually convert to DD (thankfully). |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Sept 4, 2024 16:45:43 GMT
The section that follows the 46 between Swiss Cottage & Hampstead doesn't have a regular double deck route besides the 603 itself so presumably that's what southlondonbus was referring to what he read regarding residents concerns. It sounds like NIBMYISM from those residents given the area but that's just my personal view. Replying to your previous post, just because the 268 is short doesn't mean you automatically start changing routes. A good transport network has a mix of different variety of routes ranging from direct routes to indirect routes, short routes to long routes, etc. I don't know if the 46 & 268 need changing, not my area to say but there needs to be a realisation that a mix of routes is the only way to get a coherent and successful network. I think when the article was written (2006) the 210 was still restricted to SDs due in part to residents objections in properties by the Heath so the writer was probably thinking the 603 would fall foul aswell bar the odd journey. Obviously since then the 210 has gone DD so it probably wouldn't be an issue now. The 210 was also restricted to single deck because there was a pretty severe camber on part of Hampstead Lane (by Kenwood House) particularly for buses in the Finsbury Park direction. This was levelled out some years ago. I cannot remember if the camber was still in place when Grey Green ran the route as they did have the odd double-deck working, but IIRC they preferred to keep the 210 single-deck so that light runs to and from the depot at Stamford Hill could use Stroud Green Road under the low railway bridges. |
|
|
|
Post by sdaniel on Nov 13, 2024 23:10:32 GMT
|
|
