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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 5, 2024 18:33:15 GMT
Just so much easier to put the kids in the car in the morning, possibly more scope for walking home in the afternoon when time isn't of the essence. Free bus travel for kids seems to have done nothing to alleviate the problems. Notice in my local area that Newham is really clamping down and implementing lots more School roads from this September which restrict cars dropping off and parking close to schools. Which then encourages parents to take their kids to schools further afield (creating more congestion), used cloned plates or cover them over which I have seen. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 5, 2024 18:36:25 GMT
I find it hard to believe it’s cheaper to drive with ever increasing insurance premiums and rip off parking charges. Petrol prices are likely to increase after the October budget. I know in some cases it’s cheaper by car but imagine most times it’s about convenience and not being willing to plan ahead or leave additional time. By the time you add up insurance, tax, petrol, maintenance, depreciation and then parking and other levies ... those that claim motoring is the cheaper option are severely misguided Many do include this in their costs, so are NOT misguided. |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 5, 2024 19:05:35 GMT
By the time you add up insurance, tax, petrol, maintenance, depreciation and then parking and other levies ... those that claim motoring is the cheaper option are severely misguided Many do include this in their costs, so are NOT misguided. They might include them but there is no escaping the rapid rising costs (Especially Insurance) which must mean eventually public transport becomes the cheaper option. |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 5, 2024 19:08:32 GMT
Notice in my local area that Newham is really clamping down and implementing lots more School roads from this September which restrict cars dropping off and parking close to schools. Which then encourages parents to take their kids to schools further afield (creating more congestion), used cloned plates or cover them over which I have seen. I doubt that to be honest! You can't just pick and choose schools that easily. I tell you why people in my area drive to schools its because they are lazy and they are the type of people who go to the local shops in dressing gowns so trust me they won't be going further to a new school. |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 5, 2024 19:11:02 GMT
Maybe it’s because public transport can be inefficient while doing the school run? I for example have to drop the kids off in 2 different directions, in a car I can do in 10 min. In a bus or by walking I am looking at like 30 min And time is too precious in this country where every second counts. It's not, people just leave things as late as possible. I have said something similar in the past but its like those who push and shove onto a tube train when there is a train 1 minute behind! Maybe it is me but I could never live my life that close to the wire and always forward plan and factor in for delays. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 5, 2024 19:37:03 GMT
Presumably, teachers are coming from much further afield in most circumstances which is why they mostly seem to drive? Well they should practice what they preach, many of them are hypocrites dictating leftist policies. They're not dictating leftist policies though are they? Especially if they are driving to school which apparently goes against the leftist adventure. The link generally sits with higher education levels voting for parties on the left. This is mirrored globally all the way from India to the USA. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 5, 2024 19:39:03 GMT
Which then encourages parents to take their kids to schools further afield (creating more congestion), used cloned plates or cover them over which I have seen. I doubt that to be honest! You can't just pick and choose schools that easily. I tell you why people in my area drive to schools its because they are lazy and they are the type of people who go to the local shops in dressing gowns so trust me they won't be going further to a new school. You can pick and choose schools very easily now, there was a shortage of school places a few years ago due to a small baby boom however that's cleared up and many schools have excess places. But whether or not someone is lazy, does it just not show that public transport is not catering to them and as a result is not worth their custom? Public transport needs to cater for the people, not the people catering towards public transport. |
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Post by PGAT on Sept 5, 2024 20:20:40 GMT
I doubt that to be honest! You can't just pick and choose schools that easily. I tell you why people in my area drive to schools its because they are lazy and they are the type of people who go to the local shops in dressing gowns so trust me they won't be going further to a new school. You can pick and choose schools very easily now, there was a shortage of school places a few years ago due to a small baby boom however that's cleared up and many schools have excess places. But whether or not someone is lazy, does it just not show that public transport is not catering to them and as a result is not worth their custom? Public transport needs to cater for the people, not the people catering towards public transport. You have a point but that laziness can be something as silly as not wanting to walk 5 minutes to the nearest train station. Where do you draw the line between personal responsibility and something that should be catered for by public transport? |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 5, 2024 20:29:43 GMT
You can pick and choose schools very easily now, there was a shortage of school places a few years ago due to a small baby boom however that's cleared up and many schools have excess places. But whether or not someone is lazy, does it just not show that public transport is not catering to them and as a result is not worth their custom? Public transport needs to cater for the people, not the people catering towards public transport. You have a point but that laziness can be something as silly as not wanting to walk 5 minutes to the nearest train station. Where do you draw the line between personal responsibility and something that should be catered for by public transport? I agree there's a limit that this should be applied to, however these are people who will pay for things to be catered for their needs. If someone is happily paying for a car then they can use it whenever they want. The focus should be on making them choose public transport on their own accord. Where I live the station is near enough to walk to if you're determined to, but if you can somehow get there in the car then it's even better. However the ELT provides a very frequent, fast and reliable service and people happily use the bus as a result. People will come out of their cars if you allow them to, and this is also in an area where driving around is very easy and they're considering relaxing the very few anti-car measures that exist. There's not much anti-motorist infrastructure, there's just the pro-bus infrastructure in place without disadvantaging the motorist. However things like the local Asda shop which is just a few stops down on the bus, I'll take the car every single time. No brainer and I'm sure most people would continue to do so. |
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Post by joefrombow on Sept 6, 2024 7:35:57 GMT
A lot not all but definitely a lot of traffic on the road is vans a lot of builders , plumbers , electricians etc going to work in either construction or on people's homes who need work done etc a lot of this can't be done by using the tube or buses , and a number of people will own a car so will use it at weekends etc so the cost of insurance etc will still be there But let's use Ealing for example say I'm a Teachers who lives in Ealing on £35K a year I've moved to Reading as it's cheaper and bought a one bed flat at £170,000 (one I just looked at on Zoopla) with a drive instead of £425,000 in Ealing where I used to live , I want to stay in Ealing and keep my job but rent is too expensive and I can't afford a mortgage in Ealing so move 45 minutes on a train up the road to Reading and decide to commute in , It's only a few stops shouldn't cost too much to get to work . Upon getting there I see it will cost me £521 a month for a season ticket to go 45 minutes up the road so do I pay £521 which gets me from the Station to the Station then I have to pay £65 for a bus ticket to get me to the station or do I go buy a second hand Toyota Aygo for £1000 which can give me 70mpg ( a gallon of fuel is around £6.70) if I hypermile to drive to work plus it takes me directly to my home so I get home earlier ? What would you choose ? p.s I've had a quick Google for these house prices and season ticket prices With contactless payment you can get much more reasonable prices as it is available as far as Reading. Plus there are many other costs for vehicle ownership as pointed out by others in this thread so this cost analysis feels a bit disingenuous Not disingenuous at all it costs £20.20 for a peak contactless fare between Reading and Ealing a 45 minute journey , and if you already own a car and use it at weekends that cost for insurance , servicing etc will already be there , how can it be justified to cost £520 a month or £40 a day for a 45 minute , 21 mile journey ? People driving isn't always about luxury people might have kids to pick up which have to work around work any variety of reasons its not always down to laziness but aslong as we have extortionate fares which we do for commuters coming from the home counties and many can't afford to live in London but have jobs in London could be key workers etc then we will have people using vehicles but this "everyone driving is lazy ride a bicycle or use the bus" mentality a lot of people have isn't practical for a lot of people , fares need to come down and buses outside of London need to be more like inside London . |
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 6, 2024 8:04:40 GMT
With contactless payment you can get much more reasonable prices as it is available as far as Reading. Plus there are many other costs for vehicle ownership as pointed out by others in this thread so this cost analysis feels a bit disingenuous Not disingenuous at all it costs £20.20 for a peak contactless fare between Reading and Ealing a 45 minute journey , and if you already own a car and use it at weekends that cost for insurance , servicing etc will already be there , how can it be justified to cost £520 a month or £40 a day for a 45 minute , 21 mile journey ? People driving isn't always about luxury people might have kids to pick up which have to work around work any variety of reasons its not always down to laziness but aslong as we have extortionate fares which we do for commuters coming from the home counties and many can't afford to live in London but have jobs in London could be key workers etc then we will have people using vehicles but this "everyone driving is lazy ride a bicycle or use the bus" mentality a lot of people have isn't practical for a lot of people , fares need to come down and buses outside of London need to be more like inside London . Which makes the case for pay-per-mile even more compelling (I don't think that was your intentiion though!). As you say, if someone already owns a car there are considerable 'sunk costs' that they seem to disregard - although these themselves are very high and act as a barrier to car ownership for many people in the first place. By introducing pay-per-mile, this aligns the cost of driving more closely to the actual journeys being made and the demand for road space at the time you want to travel. There are ways of designing it so that people for whom car ownership is more of a necessity - say, people living in rural areas or doing home visits in the local community - pay less (and possibly nothing at all). This revenue allows public transport fares to be reduced, creating a virtuous cycle. The revenue could also be used to reduce some of the barriers to car ownership, so those who would genuinely benefit from owning a car but are excluded by the high cost of ownership (as opposed to use) can be helped. I'm not anti-car per-se, and I recognise that there are some jobs and some locations where owning, or having access to, some form of personalised transport is necessary. But I seriously question whether many of the cars and vans on the roads in our major cities and main towns really need to be there at all. |
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Post by WH241 on Sept 6, 2024 8:59:03 GMT
Not disingenuous at all it costs £20.20 for a peak contactless fare between Reading and Ealing a 45 minute journey , and if you already own a car and use it at weekends that cost for insurance , servicing etc will already be there , how can it be justified to cost £520 a month or £40 a day for a 45 minute , 21 mile journey ? People driving isn't always about luxury people might have kids to pick up which have to work around work any variety of reasons its not always down to laziness but aslong as we have extortionate fares which we do for commuters coming from the home counties and many can't afford to live in London but have jobs in London could be key workers etc then we will have people using vehicles but this "everyone driving is lazy ride a bicycle or use the bus" mentality a lot of people have isn't practical for a lot of people , fares need to come down and buses outside of London need to be more like inside London . Which makes the case for pay-per-mile even more compelling (I don't think that was your intentiion though!). As you say, if someone already owns a car there are considerable 'sunk costs' that they seem to disregard - although these themselves are very high and act as a barrier to car ownership for many people in the first place. By introducing pay-per-mile, this aligns the cost of driving more closely to the actual journeys being made and the demand for road space at the time you want to travel. There are ways of designing it so that people for whom car ownership is more of a necessity - say, people living in rural areas or doing home visits in the local community - pay less (and possibly nothing at all). This revenue allows public transport fares to be reduced, creating a virtuous cycle. The revenue could also be used to reduce some of the barriers to car ownership, so those who would genuinely benefit from owning a car but are excluded by the high cost of ownership (as opposed to use) can be helped. I'm not anti-car per-se, and I recognise that there are some jobs and some locations where owning, or having access to, some form of personalised transport is necessary. But I seriously question whether many of the cars and vans on the roads in our major cities and main towns really need to be there at all. With every increasing insurance premiums, parking permit and breakdown cover I am nearly £1000 down before even getting into a car and driving. I am lucky I have no payments to make on the car otherwise that would be an additional cost. |
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Post by greenboy on Sept 6, 2024 10:01:29 GMT
You can pick and choose schools very easily now, there was a shortage of school places a few years ago due to a small baby boom however that's cleared up and many schools have excess places. But whether or not someone is lazy, does it just not show that public transport is not catering to them and as a result is not worth their custom? Public transport needs to cater for the people, not the people catering towards public transport. You have a point but that laziness can be something as silly as not wanting to walk 5 minutes to the nearest train station. Where do you draw the line between personal responsibility and something that should be catered for by public transport? I think laziness is a separate issue, I try and do at least 10,000 steps a day and I think most people are quite health conscious nowadays. You just can't beat the all round convenience of a car, I think during the pandemic a lot of people stopped using public transport and invested in a bike or car and aren't going to change back. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2024 11:57:08 GMT
Not disingenuous at all it costs £20.20 for a peak contactless fare between Reading and Ealing a 45 minute journey , and if you already own a car and use it at weekends that cost for insurance , servicing etc will already be there , how can it be justified to cost £520 a month or £40 a day for a 45 minute , 21 mile journey ? People driving isn't always about luxury people might have kids to pick up which have to work around work any variety of reasons its not always down to laziness but aslong as we have extortionate fares which we do for commuters coming from the home counties and many can't afford to live in London but have jobs in London could be key workers etc then we will have people using vehicles but this "everyone driving is lazy ride a bicycle or use the bus" mentality a lot of people have isn't practical for a lot of people , fares need to come down and buses outside of London need to be more like inside London . Which makes the case for pay-per-mile even more compelling (I don't think that was your intentiion though!). As you say, if someone already owns a car there are considerable 'sunk costs' that they seem to disregard - although these themselves are very high and act as a barrier to car ownership for many people in the first place. By introducing pay-per-mile, this aligns the cost of driving more closely to the actual journeys being made and the demand for road space at the time you want to travel. There are ways of designing it so that people for whom car ownership is more of a necessity - say, people living in rural areas or doing home visits in the local community - pay less (and possibly nothing at all). This revenue allows public transport fares to be reduced, creating a virtuous cycle. The revenue could also be used to reduce some of the barriers to car ownership, so those who would genuinely benefit from owning a car but are excluded by the high cost of ownership (as opposed to use) can be helped. I'm not anti-car per-se, and I recognise that there are some jobs and some locations where owning, or having access to, some form of personalised transport is necessary. But I seriously question whether many of the cars and vans on the roads in our major cities and main towns really need to be there at all. Excellent post and your right to absolutely question how many of these privately owned vehicles are necessary when congestion continues to rise. As you say, some people will need cars to perform certain jobs and some rural locations where people live which are more reliant on personal transport but there are definitely many who don’t and it might also have a beneficial knock on effect of removing those who can’t drive properly and have poor driving standards |
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Post by joefrombow on Sept 6, 2024 12:34:28 GMT
Not disingenuous at all it costs £20.20 for a peak contactless fare between Reading and Ealing a 45 minute journey , and if you already own a car and use it at weekends that cost for insurance , servicing etc will already be there , how can it be justified to cost £520 a month or £40 a day for a 45 minute , 21 mile journey ? People driving isn't always about luxury people might have kids to pick up which have to work around work any variety of reasons its not always down to laziness but aslong as we have extortionate fares which we do for commuters coming from the home counties and many can't afford to live in London but have jobs in London could be key workers etc then we will have people using vehicles but this "everyone driving is lazy ride a bicycle or use the bus" mentality a lot of people have isn't practical for a lot of people , fares need to come down and buses outside of London need to be more like inside London . Which makes the case for pay-per-mile even more compelling (I don't think that was your intentiion though!). As you say, if someone already owns a car there are considerable 'sunk costs' that they seem to disregard - although these themselves are very high and act as a barrier to car ownership for many people in the first place. By introducing pay-per-mile, this aligns the cost of driving more closely to the actual journeys being made and the demand for road space at the time you want to travel. There are ways of designing it so that people for whom car ownership is more of a necessity - say, people living in rural areas or doing home visits in the local community - pay less (and possibly nothing at all). This revenue allows public transport fares to be reduced, creating a virtuous cycle. The revenue could also be used to reduce some of the barriers to car ownership, so those who would genuinely benefit from owning a car but are excluded by the high cost of ownership (as opposed to use) can be helped. I'm not anti-car per-se, and I recognise that there are some jobs and some locations where owning, or having access to, some form of personalised transport is necessary. But I seriously question whether many of the cars and vans on the roads in our major cities and main towns really need to be there at all. I'm not anti public transport and driving in London in particular is a pain , there is nowhere to park , parking prices are ridiculous , many people can't drive properly , LTN's the list is endless 😂 I just think outside London in particular in the Commuter belt as per this map en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_metropolitan_area#/media/File%3ALondon_TTWA_2001.pngcosts need to come down to encourage people on public transport but some of the costs are astronomical for the journeys provided and buses when the £2 fare disappears are quite expensive aswell the government needs to have a overhaul of transport pricing and some sort of County by County PTE system similar to what we have here in London like tfl for transport that all work together People are excited about GBR coming but other than it being Government owned and ran I don't think fares will come down or anything drastic will change realistically which is a shame , the same with PPM just another tax and the government watching where you are going and what you are doing . |
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