|
Post by COBO on Jan 29, 2022 9:39:55 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past?
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Jan 29, 2022 9:44:55 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? They could work but would completely break TFLs standardisation policy. The latter ones worked reasonably well as they run along the same routing and for large parts of the day (ie off peak times) on the 6, 23 and 73. I seem to recall seeing every 6 going to Willesden Garage in the daytimes when I used to go up to town and without seeing a timetable I thought it went to Willsden officially.
|
|
|
Post by WH241 on Jan 29, 2022 9:48:11 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? Don't think they would work now. Passengers get frustrated when buses are curtailed short of journeys already. I think drivers also have some flexibility (Not sure if official) when running light so wouldn't like having to stick to a certain route back to the garage.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jan 29, 2022 9:57:29 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? I don't think so, in the past they were often more trouble than they were worth.
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jan 29, 2022 10:11:49 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? The 43 still has morning journeys that start at Archway heading towards both London Bridge and Friern Barnet, and a couple of late-night journeys operate between London Bridge and Archway only. There used to be a few others which had short workings terminating at the garage late at night (123, 358) but these seem to have gone now. I can't think of any others.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jan 29, 2022 11:10:10 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? Don't think they would work now. Passengers get frustrated when buses are curtailed short of journeys already. I think drivers also have some flexibility (Not sure if official) when running light so wouldn't like having to stick to a certain route back to the garage. Light runnings tend to have an official routing, athough in my experience it wasn't too strictly enforced if alternative routings were legally suitable and safe enough.
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Jan 29, 2022 12:41:31 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? Don't think they would work now. Passengers get frustrated when buses are curtailed short of journeys already. I think drivers also have some flexibility (Not sure if official) when running light so wouldn't like having to stick to a certain route back to the garage. There are some turns on some routes that essentially facilitate garage journeys, but obviously to catch up on mileage as opposed to prearranged workings. For example, a 158 to Leyton, Town Hall or a 101 to East Ham, Ron Leighton Way were official turns that stated buses run light back to the garage.
|
|
|
Post by SN17MOA on Jan 29, 2022 13:04:13 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? The 43 still has morning journeys that start at Archway heading towards both London Bridge and Friern Barnet, and a couple of late-night journeys operate between London Bridge and Archway only. There used to be a few others which had short workings terminating at the garage late at night (123, 358) but these seem to have gone now. I can't think of any others. The R70 is also similar in terms of having journeys that start and finish at Fulwell (TF). However, unlike the routes you mentioned, the buses on the R70 finish their short journeys early in the evening like 7pm from Hampton to Fulwell which continues until 20:30. There are normally 3 or 4 buses running short between that period as the route drops from a 10 minute frequency to a 20 minute one. But, they are normally accompanied by another bus doing the full route.
|
|
|
Post by Catford94 on Jan 29, 2022 13:29:18 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past?
I think this has come up now and then in the past, but...
Running garage journeys in service will mean publicly visible changes if the route changes garages (either through re-tendering, or operator moving a route to another garage), or if those garage journeys are attached to meal breaks, and operator does a new duty schedule without major timetable changes for whatever reason.
These will generate work (and therefore cost) for TFL in changing info at bus stops on that section of route when this happens, and potentially dealing with complaints about the change.
Also, the journey time for running in service (and potential for delays as drivers are asked questions by passengers who aren't used to seeing route X on that bit of road) compared to running 'private' will be slightly longer. On each journey it won't be a huge amount, but potentially enough for some driver duties that just fit within a 'drivers hours' (or local agreement) limit now, to just break that limit. Across the whole network, will cost additional driver duties each day.
|
|
|
Post by kmkcheng on Jan 29, 2022 14:02:45 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past? The 43 still has morning journeys that start at Archway heading towards both London Bridge and Friern Barnet, and a couple of late-night journeys operate between London Bridge and Archway only. There used to be a few others which had short workings terminating at the garage late at night (123, 358) but these seem to have gone now. I can't think of any others. All morning duties on the 237 start from Brentford instead of running light to Hounslow Heath or White City. There are a number of journeys throughout the day that runs short to Brentford. The 279 has short journeys from Ponders End to Waltham Cross
|
|
|
Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jan 29, 2022 18:16:32 GMT
Could in service garage journeys work today like they did the past?
I think this has come up now and then in the past, but...
Running garage journeys in service will mean publicly visible changes if the route changes garages (either through re-tendering, or operator moving a route to another garage), or if those garage journeys are attached to meal breaks, and operator does a new duty schedule without major timetable changes for whatever reason.
These will generate work (and therefore cost) for TFL in changing info at bus stops on that section of route when this happens, and potentially dealing with complaints about the change.
Also, the journey time for running in service (and potential for delays as drivers are asked questions by passengers who aren't used to seeing route X on that bit of road) compared to running 'private' will be slightly longer. On each journey it won't be a huge amount, but potentially enough for some driver duties that just fit within a 'drivers hours' (or local agreement) limit now, to just break that limit. Across the whole network, will cost additional driver duties each day.
I did see on the 237 timetable today there is a midnight journey to AH from White City. I agree with you on in-service journeys, but there are some times where I think it should be done. For example, if a 120 bus deadruns to Northolt, it could be worth it running live from the bus station in Hounslow as it's much closer than SG, unless it breaks driver's hours regulations.
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Jan 29, 2022 19:30:37 GMT
I think this has come up now and then in the past, but...
Running garage journeys in service will mean publicly visible changes if the route changes garages (either through re-tendering, or operator moving a route to another garage), or if those garage journeys are attached to meal breaks, and operator does a new duty schedule without major timetable changes for whatever reason.
These will generate work (and therefore cost) for TFL in changing info at bus stops on that section of route when this happens, and potentially dealing with complaints about the change.
Also, the journey time for running in service (and potential for delays as drivers are asked questions by passengers who aren't used to seeing route X on that bit of road) compared to running 'private' will be slightly longer. On each journey it won't be a huge amount, but potentially enough for some driver duties that just fit within a 'drivers hours' (or local agreement) limit now, to just break that limit. Across the whole network, will cost additional driver duties each day.
I did see on the 237 timetable today there is a midnight journey to AH from White City. I agree with you on in-service journeys, but there are some times where I think it should be done. For example, if a 120 bus deadruns to Northolt, it could be worth it running live from the bus station in Hounslow as it's much closer than SG, unless it breaks driver's hours regulations. It will cost TfL if they have to rework schedules just to cut out dead running. They set when routes start & finish service and the frequencies. In your example, TfL would have to amend the tender specifications for the 120 to allow for three extra journeys from Hounslow. This will go against the data modelling & passenger flow forecasts, meaning potentially not enough usage of those later 120 journeys. It could be a loss leading action, and as mentioned by other members will increase driver costs simply by the bus being in service as to dead running. Very hard to justify financially, especially with big holes in TfL's pockets at present.
|
|
|
Post by Busboy105 on Feb 6, 2022 1:28:28 GMT
Is there a list of all the ex 24hr weekend routes?
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Feb 6, 2022 1:33:14 GMT
Is there a list of all the ex 24hr weekend routes? Subject to corrections, it should be: 34, 114, 123, 132, 145, 154, 158, 183, 296, 307, 319, 486, E1, H32, H37, W3 & W7
|
|
|
Post by YX10FFN on Feb 6, 2022 1:34:43 GMT
Is there a list of all the ex 24hr weekend routes? Subject to corrections, it should be: 34, 114, 123, 132, 145, 154, 158, 183, 296, 307, 319, 486, E1, H37, W3 & W7 Plus the H32
|
|