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Post by greenboy on Oct 25, 2023 14:19:17 GMT
There is already Park & Ride on an unofficial basis. The stations at the outer end of the Central Line have a lot of custom from people who drive in from the rural Essex hinterland or even the Harlow southern estates and catch the tube in. Hillingdon and Stanmore are also examples of well-used station car parks close to a motorway junction. The issue is that if these stations are officially designated as Park & Ride for London, the amount of extra parking spaces that will have to be provided will be huge. Within London, Park & Ride is less of a necessity as the population density means that sufficient public transport is already provided in most areas. I think a Park & Ride could only really work for town centres around the edge of London, where public transport links aren't as good, particularly for those living in more rural places. But a lot of these examples would be outside TFL's area. For example, perhaps a service in Watford could work well, plenty of people drive here from further afield for shopping, being the nearest major town centre for some rural areas of Herts and Bucks. I think there may have been a proposal at one point to have a P&R site near the M1 junction? Also if Met Line extension had gone ahead, there was a plan for Cassiobridge Station to act as a park and ride, though this location in Croxley Park could still work well as a bus service - perhaps for access to the hospital and stadium as well? Other town centres of a similar size to Watford, like Bromley, Croydon or Kingston, are further in to London so probably have adequate public transport links already. Perhaps a Park & Ride site could work somewhere in the Beddington area, allowing passengers to take the tram into Croydon? There is possibly some scope for more parking at tram stops, space permitting, but I think bus park & rides have generally fallen out of favour in recent years with declining footfall in town centres. Places like Oxford and Cambridge with high visitor numbers still seem to be thriving but even Canterbury which gets a high number of tourists has reduced its P&R provision. It's been a good few years now since the Bromley and Kingston P&R operated and I can't really see much scope for any others in the London area.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 25, 2023 14:33:41 GMT
I think a Park & Ride could only really work for town centres around the edge of London, where public transport links aren't as good, particularly for those living in more rural places. But a lot of these examples would be outside TFL's area. For example, perhaps a service in Watford could work well, plenty of people drive here from further afield for shopping, being the nearest major town centre for some rural areas of Herts and Bucks. I think there may have been a proposal at one point to have a P&R site near the M1 junction? Also if Met Line extension had gone ahead, there was a plan for Cassiobridge Station to act as a park and ride, though this location in Croxley Park could still work well as a bus service - perhaps for access to the hospital and stadium as well? Other town centres of a similar size to Watford, like Bromley, Croydon or Kingston, are further in to London so probably have adequate public transport links already. Perhaps a Park & Ride site could work somewhere in the Beddington area, allowing passengers to take the tram into Croydon? There is possibly some scope for more parking at tram stops, space permitting, but I think bus park & rides have generally fallen out of favour in recent years with declining footfall in town centres. Places like Oxford and Cambridge with high visitor numbers still seem to be thriving but even Canterbury which gets a high number of tourists has reduced its P&R provision. It's been a good few years now since the Bromley and Kingston P&R operated and I can't really see much scope for any others in the London area. With Kingston Council having long term plans to demolish the Cattle Market and potentially Canbury Place there is room for a P&R. Especially as Kingston council these days is so anti-motorist and so pro-cyclist/public transport.
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Post by COBO on Nov 3, 2023 23:44:20 GMT
Is Edgware bus station full? Is there enough stand space for another route or two or does something have to be moved out?
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Post by mondraker275 on Nov 4, 2023 7:25:50 GMT
Is Edgware bus station full? Is there enough stand space for another route or two or does something have to be moved out? Always full when I am there but that could be said for many if not all stations.
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Post by gwiwer on Nov 4, 2023 16:14:56 GMT
Is Edgware bus station full? Is there enough stand space for another route or two or does something have to be moved out? Always full when I am there but that could be said for many if not all stations. Built at minimum size for the service level at the time. It could have been a little larger but not much given the constraints of the site (bus garage/s, tube station) or it might have been laid out differently. Island stations always require every passenger to cross a live lane to enter or leave. Edgware also requires every bus to cross the path of every other bus at least once because the entry is to the right of the exit. That, in turn, is to allow for alighting and boarding around the island on a drive-through basis. Buses enter and - usually - go to their appointed stand to the right hand side of the island before moving onto their departure bay. Some need to circumnavigate the entire bus station to do that. Some stands are filled at times preventing the next arrival going to its correct stand despite the usual contractual standing arrangements. The narrow entry / exit road cannot be widened. Solutions might include moving one or more routes to on-street stops with stands remote from the bus station, linking routes to give longer but fewer routes which do not require stand time in Edgware or some sort of reconfiguration of the traffic arrangements around the bus station which might create an additional departure bay but probably not standing space.
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Post by COBO on Nov 5, 2023 3:44:44 GMT
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Post by COBO on Nov 5, 2023 3:51:42 GMT
Is Edgware bus station full? Is there enough stand space for another route or two or does something have to be moved out? Always full when I am there but that could be said for many if not all stations. Always full when I am there but that could be said for many if not all stations. Built at minimum size for the service level at the time. It could have been a little larger but not much given the constraints of the site (bus garage/s, tube station) or it might have been laid out differently. Island stations always require every passenger to cross a live lane to enter or leave. Edgware also requires every bus to cross the path of every other bus at least once because the entry is to the right of the exit. That, in turn, is to allow for alighting and boarding around the island on a drive-through basis. Buses enter and - usually - go to their appointed stand to the right hand side of the island before moving onto their departure bay. Some need to circumnavigate the entire bus station to do that. Some stands are filled at times preventing the next arrival going to its correct stand despite the usual contractual standing arrangements. The narrow entry / exit road cannot be widened. Solutions might include moving one or more routes to on-street stops with stands remote from the bus station, linking routes to give longer but fewer routes which do not require stand time in Edgware or some sort of reconfiguration of the traffic arrangements around the bus station which might create an additional departure bay but probably not standing space. So if TfL was created a new route that terminates at Edgware or extend an existing route to Edgware a route at Edgware would have to move out of Edgware to create stand space.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Nov 6, 2023 22:47:26 GMT
Contrary to the Oxford Street West pedestrianisation plans, as far as I am aware, the Oxford Street East and Marble Arch parts of the scheme never got to the consulation phase before everything was canceled. Does anybody happen to have any insight into what changes were planned for the bus routes that presumably were being thought of ahead of the now-canceled consultation?
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Post by yunus on Nov 8, 2023 23:33:41 GMT
Not tryna be awkward but can never recall Hybrids being this late into service as Electrics are/have been.
Putting the pieces together, there are many garages across London (not exactly sure how many) but how are they all gonna be wired up by 2030?
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Post by COBO on Nov 9, 2023 1:18:56 GMT
Not tryna be awkward but can never recall Hybrids being this late into service as Electrics are/have been. Putting the pieces together, there are many garages across London (not exactly sure how many) but how are they all gonna be wired up by 2030? Um I believe early HVs and HWs were late when they where brand new. They were suppose to arrive and enter service at the same as the other early hybrids in late 2008 and early 2009 but arrived much later in April and May 2009. Don't forget electrics is new. Just give the companies a chance. Rome wasn't built in the day.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 9, 2023 1:52:23 GMT
Not tryna be awkward but can never recall Hybrids being this late into service as Electrics are/have been. Putting the pieces together, there are many garages across London (not exactly sure how many) but how are they all gonna be wired up by 2030? There were hybrid and even diesel bus deliveries in the 2000's & 2010's that were late and they didn't require a garage to be electrified with chargers or any of the sort. Most, if not all, will probably be wired up with at least one route before 2030.
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 9, 2023 8:43:32 GMT
Not tryna be awkward but can never recall Hybrids being this late into service as Electrics are/have been. Putting the pieces together, there are many garages across London (not exactly sure how many) but how are they all gonna be wired up by 2030? There were hybrid and even diesel bus deliveries in the 2000's & 2010's that were late and they didn't require a garage to be electrified with chargers or any of the sort. Most, if not all, will probably be wired up with at least one route before 2030. Even by the end the 2024 I'd say a large amount will already be done. Certainly a large amount of the main garages I think will be done. In South London A, AL, AF, SW, Q, PM, MG, C, BX, BN, TH, QB, BC, WL, TL, PD, TB (314) will all be done by end of next year plus others iv missed.
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Post by gwiwer on Nov 9, 2023 17:13:59 GMT
It's not just about installing the garage hardware. That is not as easy as it was when fuel pumps were first installed because you can't charge a bus in five minutes in the way you can diesel up. Multiple bays have to be allocated and numerous charging stations built which takes precious space.
As much as that is a limiting factor so is the supply of enough current. That is a national issue and will become ever more pressing as more vehicles of all kinds rely on electric traction and regular recharging.
Anyone who has had the misfortune to plug more into a domestic mains socket than it can safely cope with may be aware that the supply will do at least one of three things namely trip out, go into meltdown or ignite from the heat. If insufficient power is available all or some charging points will "brown out" which is the same as is occasionally seen during partial power outages when your domestic lighting dims to a faint glow and anything requiring higher current won't work at all.
These thigns are being addressed but it won't happen overnight and it won't happen within five years unless a lot more generating and transmission infrastructure is built and brought online quickly. And that, of course, costs money. Guess who has the most money in the energy-supply business? The oil companies.
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Post by londonbuses on Nov 9, 2023 17:25:48 GMT
There were hybrid and even diesel bus deliveries in the 2000's & 2010's that were late and they didn't require a garage to be electrified with chargers or any of the sort. Most, if not all, will probably be wired up with at least one route before 2030. Even by the end the 2024 I'd say a large amount will already be done. Certainly a large amount of the main garages I think will be done. In South London A, AL, AF, SW, Q, PM, MG, C, BX, BN, TH, QB, BC, WL, TL, PD, TB (314) will all be done by end of next year plus others iv missed. Most will be done soon, the only garages not currently electrified or planned to be in the near future (excluding outstations such as CP and GM) are: Abellio - none Arriva - AD, AE, BN (main shed), CT, DT, DX, EC, GY, N GAL - SI Metroline - AC, G, HD, SG, UX RATP - AV, RP, TV, V Stagecoach - BW, KB, T
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 9, 2023 19:43:10 GMT
It's not just about installing the garage hardware. That is not as easy as it was when fuel pumps were first installed because you can't charge a bus in five minutes in the way you can diesel up. Multiple bays have to be allocated and numerous charging stations built which takes precious space. As much as that is a limiting factor so is the supply of enough current. That is a national issue and will become ever more pressing as more vehicles of all kinds rely on electric traction and regular recharging. Anyone who has had the misfortune to plug more into a domestic mains socket than it can safely cope with may be aware that the supply will do at least one of three things namely trip out, go into meltdown or ignite from the heat. If insufficient power is available all or some charging points will "brown out" which is the same as is occasionally seen during partial power outages when your domestic lighting dims to a faint glow and anything requiring higher current won't work at all. These thigns are being addressed but it won't happen overnight and it won't happen within five years unless a lot more generating and transmission infrastructure is built and brought online quickly. And that, of course, costs money. Guess who has the most money in the energy-supply business? The oil companies. Is there even enough supply for every bus to be electric by 2030? I remember when the first came for the 507/521 that someone at TFL said that you would need 4 new powerstations to generate enough suppy needed.
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