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Post by Catford94 on Jan 5, 2024 23:43:34 GMT
Something I've always wondered is who decides to put a bus in service in the morning? Is it the driver that picks whatever bus they like to a route or the controller? I know garages can be full so if it's the former, the driver can then pick whatever bus they can take out without moving other ones.
There's no one size fits all answer, but traditionally, it's the engineering department who allocate buses to specific bus workings / running numbers for the following day, in theory at least.
Apart from what order buses get parked in / what order they can get out in (more of an issue at some garages than others) the engineers try to balance mileage between buses (or will occasionally allocate the least reliable buses to the shortest duties) and will sometimes put a bus on a 'spreadover' working if they want it back for a bit of routine maintenance or a minor repair that isn't drastic enough to stop it running for the morning peak.
On London Transport (central buses) it was also the 'inside staff' responsibility to 'dress' the bus (set the route number and intermediate point blinds up, and - I think - the fare chart) for the right route in the days when this was all done manually.
Where there are night bus routes, there's also the need to fit the night buses running in, with a quick clean and re-fuel, then getting them out for the latest starting day bus workings. (I think there are one or two London garages where some night buses stay out to the end of the following morning's peak, either because there isn't time to deal with them before they are needed again, or where the layout of the garage makes it impractical to have a few buses running in at the same time as the morning 'run out'.)
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Post by surab21 on Jan 6, 2024 1:08:10 GMT
For those local to Canning Town (or non-locals with local bus knowledge!), do you know whether there was ever some sort of turning point directly opposite this 'Bus Only' section on East India Dock Rd? Link to StreetViewI know the 'Bus Only' bit is for route 309 to cut across the traffic lanes to make a u-turn at the junction ahead, but it looks like the paved area in the central reserve directly opposite the 'Bus Only' section shaped as if it used to be a road/turning point? Hopefully you see what I mean
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Post by WH241 on Jan 6, 2024 9:51:20 GMT
For those local to Canning Town (or non-locals with local bus knowledge!), do you know whether there was ever some sort of turning point directly opposite this 'Bus Only' section on East India Dock Rd? Link to StreetViewI know the 'Bus Only' bit is for route 309 to cut across the traffic lanes to make a u-turn at the junction ahead, but it looks like the paved area in the central reserve directly opposite the 'Bus Only' section shaped as if it used to be a road/turning point? Hopefully you see what I mean No that's section has been like that since it was created around 2003 / 2004. Before this the A13 used to run further to the right to that the tunnel would have been on the left as you drove west.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 6, 2024 14:47:37 GMT
Something I've always wondered is who decides to put a bus in service in the morning? Is it the driver that picks whatever bus they like to a route or the controller? I know garages can be full so if it's the former, the driver can then pick whatever bus they can take out without moving other ones.
There's no one size fits all answer, but traditionally, it's the engineering department who allocate buses to specific bus workings / running numbers for the following day, in theory at least.
Apart from what order buses get parked in / what order they can get out in (more of an issue at some garages than others) the engineers try to balance mileage between buses (or will occasionally allocate the least reliable buses to the shortest duties) and will sometimes put a bus on a 'spreadover' working if they want it back for a bit of routine maintenance or a minor repair that isn't drastic enough to stop it running for the morning peak.
On London Transport (central buses) it was also the 'inside staff' responsibility to 'dress' the bus (set the route number and intermediate point blinds up, and - I think - the fare chart) for the right route in the days when this was all done manually.
Where there are night bus routes, there's also the need to fit the night buses running in, with a quick clean and re-fuel, then getting them out for the latest starting day bus workings. (I think there are one or two London garages where some night buses stay out to the end of the following morning's peak, either because there isn't time to deal with them before they are needed again, or where the layout of the garage makes it impractical to have a few buses running in at the same time as the morning 'run out'.)
As above, the run out for the morning as done the night before or early morning. The engineering manager or assistant engineering manager would normally have a plan that has buses required for ROTA (service), MOT, other other mechanical work. This list would be given to the running shift engineer who would amend anything that needs to be changed depending on mechanical problems throughout the day. The list would be given to the shunters in the evening who park the buses in a plan for the morning run out in an order of what time the drivers take the running number from the depot, typically 10 minutes after their sign on. Some garage would plate the buses with the running number and then write it on a board/paper of a list and map plan so the driver in the morning would know where their bus is. With spread over buses, (the ones that come back to the garage) at times buses that may require attention or service are put on these specific running numbers. Buses that would require attention by morning engineers tend be put on a L/OUT (late out) so usually the last ones leaving the garage. Night buses are also on this plan and tend to be re-fuelled etc. When the night bus finishes its shift it then may form part of an allocation for the morning. This may be changed by running shift or a morning controller etc. They only get cleaned when they come back to the garage and put back out as it would have been fuelled the night before.
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 6, 2024 21:39:52 GMT
For those local to Canning Town (or non-locals with local bus knowledge!), do you know whether there was ever some sort of turning point directly opposite this 'Bus Only' section on East India Dock Rd? Link to StreetViewI know the 'Bus Only' bit is for route 309 to cut across the traffic lanes to make a u-turn at the junction ahead, but it looks like the paved area in the central reserve directly opposite the 'Bus Only' section shaped as if it used to be a road/turning point? Hopefully you see what I mean There never was nor is there today a turning point there. You had Poplar (Aberfeldy Street) for PR garage which was a stop or two in off the East India Dock Road or Poplar (Iron Bridge Tavern) which was on the older A13 and from where buses ran dead to stand. The next turn was Canning Town which required a circumnavigation of the roundabout before the bus station was built after which there is the bus lay-by and stand at Canning Town (Hermit Road). First turn down the Silvertown Way was at Royal Victoria Dock which was a pull-in to the left (southbound) to a stand and a U-turn across the road to LOR for the return.
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 6, 2024 21:54:12 GMT
Something I've always wondered is who decides to put a bus in service in the morning? Is it the driver that picks whatever bus they like to a route or the controller? I know garages can be full so if it's the former, the driver can then pick whatever bus they can take out without moving other ones. LT practice has been described by others. The same applied for London Country garages and LT Country Area before that. Some of those were busier than others with GR the biggest and busiest of the lot; their allocation for schools duties alone was as big as some garage's entire bus allocation for the day! Garage staff dressed the vehicles which had been parked as directed according to engineering needs and local garage practice. For example most garages would park all of a particular type together rather than a random first-in-first-out line up of random types. Other operators varied but the one person who had no say in matters at all was the driver. I worked from a medium-sized regional (non-LT) garage at which pay rates differed according to vehicle size driven. Each duty was assigned a specific size of bus. You took the one that was assigned to your duty unless you found fault on the walk-around pre-service checks in which case you went to the engineering supervisor not the duty inspector to report the fault. It was engineering's responsibility to assign another bus (if available), or to decide that the fault could be fixed in time for run-out, or that it was not serious enough to warrant a VOR. You never ever just took another bus and drove off. That would have got you dismissed. If the replacement bus was bigger than that rostered you did get paid the higher rate; if it was smaller you still got the scheduled rate so that at least always worked in the driver's favour. We had a number of small out-stations with between 1 and 3 buses each. Each out-stationed vehicle was carefully rostered to come back to the main garage at least once every three days but otherwise the out-station drivers often parked the bus off a late turn for their colleague on the early next day. There wasn't another bus so you took the one there was . One location was a one-bus-one-driver operation with the vehicle serviced (and exchanged if needs be) daily during the driver's meal break at a main garage. That was our only instance of the driver parking his bus at home overnight and taking it again next morning. Some small and independent operators work that way with all or most of their buses and duties.
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Post by Volvo on Jan 7, 2024 12:37:27 GMT
Anyone have a valid reason for why the SL10 goes down Regents Park Road and up Greyhound Hill towards Harrow rather than straight down Hendon Lane considering it doesn't serve the 3 stops the 125, 143 & 326, I mean it's supposed to be an express route! Alot of time in the peaks RPR has traffic from Hendon Lane down to GH plus you have a set of traffic lights, somwtimes this adds around 5-10 minutes extra to a journey depending on the traffic, so considering this is an express route this routing makes 0 sense to me.
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 7, 2024 17:01:51 GMT
Anyone have a valid reason for why the SL10 goes down Regents Park Road and up Greyhound Hill towards Harrow rather than straight down Hendon Lane considering it doesn't serve the 3 stops the 125, 143 & 326, I mean it's supposed to be an express route! Alot of time in the peaks RPR has traffic from Hendon Lane down to GH plus you have a set of traffic lights, sometimes this adds around 5-10 minutes extra to a journey depending on the traffic, so considering this is an express route this routing makes 0 sense to me. Is that a stipulated LOR or do drivers have an option? The X68 / SL6 is allowed to take the route the driver feels best on the day over the non-stop section. Sometimes this works well, other times not so good. I have come the Tulse Hill route more often than Denmark Hill but sometimes the traffic through Tulse Hill Kennington is very bad. The driver may not know this when they commit to turning right into Baylis Road (towards Croydon) of course. I'm sure more than one driver has regretted their choice farther down the route.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 7, 2024 17:08:37 GMT
Anyone have a valid reason for why the SL10 goes down Regents Park Road and up Greyhound Hill towards Harrow rather than straight down Hendon Lane considering it doesn't serve the 3 stops the 125, 143 & 326, I mean it's supposed to be an express route! Alot of time in the peaks RPR has traffic from Hendon Lane down to GH plus you have a set of traffic lights, sometimes this adds around 5-10 minutes extra to a journey depending on the traffic, so considering this is an express route this routing makes 0 sense to me. Is that a stipulated LOR or do drivers have an option? The X68 / SL6 is allowed to take the route the driver feels best on the day over the non-stop section. Sometimes this works well, other times not so good. I have come the Tulse Hill route more often than Denmark Hill but sometimes the traffic through Tulse Hill Kennington is very bad. The driver may not know this when they commit to turning right into Baylis Road (towards Croydon) of course. I'm sure more than one driver has regretted their choice farther down the route. I think a lot of drivers prefer going via Brixton as it avoids any problems with people wanting to get off on the non stop section. Anybody realising they're on the wrong bus as it turns right into Baylis Road is dropped off at the next 59 stop and has to walk back to Waterloo.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 7, 2024 17:28:17 GMT
Anyone have a valid reason for why the SL10 goes down Regents Park Road and up Greyhound Hill towards Harrow rather than straight down Hendon Lane considering it doesn't serve the 3 stops the 125, 143 & 326, I mean it's supposed to be an express route! Alot of time in the peaks RPR has traffic from Hendon Lane down to GH plus you have a set of traffic lights, sometimes this adds around 5-10 minutes extra to a journey depending on the traffic, so considering this is an express route this routing makes 0 sense to me. Is that a stipulated LOR or do drivers have an option? The X68 / SL6 is allowed to take the route the driver feels best on the day over the non-stop section. Sometimes this works well, other times not so good. I have come the Tulse Hill route more often than Denmark Hill but sometimes the traffic through Tulse Hill Kennington is very bad. The driver may not know this when they commit to turning right into Baylis Road (towards Croydon) of course. I'm sure more than one driver has regretted their choice farther down the route. The Tulse Hill route is generally preferred as it’s usually quicker due to the abundance of bus lanes on the A23, lack of Walworth bottleneck and the quieter Tulse Hill corridor. Even dead running buses run via this route
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Post by Volvo on Jan 7, 2024 18:36:32 GMT
Anyone have a valid reason for why the SL10 goes down Regents Park Road and up Greyhound Hill towards Harrow rather than straight down Hendon Lane considering it doesn't serve the 3 stops the 125, 143 & 326, I mean it's supposed to be an express route! Alot of time in the peaks RPR has traffic from Hendon Lane down to GH plus you have a set of traffic lights, sometimes this adds around 5-10 minutes extra to a journey depending on the traffic, so considering this is an express route this routing makes 0 sense to me. Is that a stipulated LOR or do drivers have an option? No idea, as I saw two drivers do this yesterday when I was on the 125 usually when I see the SL10 is further down Hendon Lane or around Finchley Central/North Finchley and thought that they went straight down Hendon Lane.
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 7, 2024 21:50:18 GMT
Despite the now quite distinct route number it still happens. When it was the X68 occasional users could be forgiven for not spotting the "non-stop" information on the E-plate and timetable information; it was also carried on the destination blind as well but was quite small.
One one occasion the driver made use of the PA during the Waterloo stop to announce "This bus now runs non-stop to West Norwood. I repeat ..... " Despite which there was a shout and a howl of protest that he had gone "the wrong way" when he turned into Baylis Road. The two frustrated chaps were duly deposited at the next bus stop and watched as "their" bus took off into the distance.
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Post by COBO on Jan 8, 2024 22:40:26 GMT
What is cheaper creating a new route or rerouting an existing route?
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Post by surab21 on Jan 9, 2024 21:12:05 GMT
What is cheaper creating a new route or rerouting an existing route? Rerouting generally, but costs dependant on how extensive the reroute is
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 9, 2024 23:28:15 GMT
What is cheaper creating a new route or rerouting an existing route? Rerouting generally, but costs dependant on how extensive the reroute is And whether a new contract is required. Back-end paperwork seems to cost an awful lot of money. Did anyone say franchising was good value?
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