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Post by matthieu1221 on Mar 22, 2024 18:27:13 GMT
As far as I’m aware it’s only ones in the commercial fleet. All their TfL service vehicles should be red now. The "100% red" rule, which still allows for very limited non-red areas such as the black on some types which is a designed-in feature, plus the numerous allover adverts, came about because of growing complaints that "London buses should be red" when many suddenly were not. It didn't help that certain contractors also used old and shabby buses cascaded into London which in the eyes of the public and certain politicians were smoky oily breakdowns on wheels. Many contracted routes were suburban but the Grey Green (green / white) buses on the 24 were very high-profile and passed Parliament. Some of the suburban ones were quite well-known such as the 65 Ealing - Chessington (as it then was) with Armchair's orange and white buses. In a few areas the red "London" bus was in danger of vanishing; Romford was one such where Frontrunner's green / cream buses, Dix in yellow / brown / white "p*ss and poo" livery (as it was sometimes known locally) and Ensign's yellow / white ones seemed to be more common than the "proper" red ones. There were also issues around destination clarity and provision with many of the drafted-in buses having blind-boxes incapable of taking London-style screens and offering only minimal or small-font displays. As this was becoming a political issue the edict went out that henceforth buses on London contracts must be at least 80% red and later "100%" red. Some today are around 75% red with all the black rear ends and staircase panels. The requirements for destination displays have also changed through TfL's years meaning we now have no "via" information at all (unless there are still any older vehicles fitted with such blinds in use) and both ultimate and qualifying points when necessary which are not always as well-understood as they could be. The 24 being non-red was also a big (grey-green) political point as you say -- for the Westminster government too!
It helps today in the TfL border regions that the buses are full red -- very easy to see which ones are under the TfL fare structure and which ones aren't. A (small) sticker saying that the bus was part of London's transport service (or whatever the exact wording was) wasn't the most visible among the hodge podge of wacky liveries and bus types used at times.
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 22, 2024 19:19:33 GMT
The "100% red" rule, which still allows for very limited non-red areas such as the black on some types which is a designed-in feature, plus the numerous allover adverts, came about because of growing complaints that "London buses should be red" when many suddenly were not. It didn't help that certain contractors also used old and shabby buses cascaded into London which in the eyes of the public and certain politicians were smoky oily breakdowns on wheels. Many contracted routes were suburban but the Grey Green (green / white) buses on the 24 were very high-profile and passed Parliament. Some of the suburban ones were quite well-known such as the 65 Ealing - Chessington (as it then was) with Armchair's orange and white buses. In a few areas the red "London" bus was in danger of vanishing; Romford was one such where Frontrunner's green / cream buses, Dix in yellow / brown / white "p*ss and poo" livery (as it was sometimes known locally) and Ensign's yellow / white ones seemed to be more common than the "proper" red ones. There were also issues around destination clarity and provision with many of the drafted-in buses having blind-boxes incapable of taking London-style screens and offering only minimal or small-font displays. As this was becoming a political issue the edict went out that henceforth buses on London contracts must be at least 80% red and later "100%" red. Some today are around 75% red with all the black rear ends and staircase panels. The requirements for destination displays have also changed through TfL's years meaning we now have no "via" information at all (unless there are still any older vehicles fitted with such blinds in use) and both ultimate and qualifying points when necessary which are not always as well-understood as they could be. The 24 being non-red was also a big (grey-green) political point as you say -- for the Westminster government too! It helps today in the TfL border regions that the buses are full red -- very easy to see which ones are under the TfL fare structure and which ones aren't. A (small) sticker saying that the bus was part of London's transport service (or whatever the exact wording was) wasn't the most visible among the hodge podge of wacky liveries and bus types used at times.
I remember people in Sutton didn't immediately think the Epsom bus operated routes with their cream buses were London buses with the same fare structures as the 280 etc.
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Post by gwiwer on Mar 23, 2024 10:11:13 GMT
It was a little confusing. Everyone had long been accustomed to London buses being red and - on the fringes - their Country buses being green even though these were NBC subsidiaries (and not all were green) long before the red ones were franchised out.
"London Regional Transport Service" plates were fitted to the front panels of non-red buses to avoid confusion but it took some time before some folks accepted non-red buses would charge the same fares and take the same passes as the ones they had before.
IIRC there was a fall-off in traffic on the 24 after it went to Grey Green because visitors expected a red bus to turn up. At the time the 29 ran parallel for most of the route between Camden and Victoria and found itself busier than before.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Mar 23, 2024 11:47:09 GMT
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 23, 2024 13:56:43 GMT
I’d assume the window needed replacing and that was all that was available at the time. The LT sliding windows are quite unique these days so the supplier may not have had any in stock.
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Post by Catford94 on Mar 26, 2024 20:41:52 GMT
It helps today in the TfL border regions that the buses are full red -- very easy to see which ones are under the TfL fare structure and which ones aren't. A (small) sticker saying that the bus was part of London's transport service (or whatever the exact wording was) wasn't the most visible among the hodge podge of wacky liveries and bus types used at times.
Yes.
And in a few places in the mid / late 80s, there were red buses operating 'non London' routes, either commercially or on shire county tender which had sections of route common with 'London' routes, as well as some 'non London' operators running 'London' routes that paralleled their 'non London' routes.
Some operators were better than others at making sure that 'LRT Service' slip-boards (and 'X County Council service' boards where appropriate) were shown / not shown correctly.
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Post by gwiwer on Mar 26, 2024 21:48:55 GMT
It helps today in the TfL border regions that the buses are full red -- very easy to see which ones are under the TfL fare structure and which ones aren't. A (small) sticker saying that the bus was part of London's transport service (or whatever the exact wording was) wasn't the most visible among the hodge podge of wacky liveries and bus types used at times.
Yes.
And in a few places in the mid / late 80s, there were red buses operating 'non London' routes, either commercially or on shire county tender which had sections of route common with 'London' routes, as well as some 'non London' operators running 'London' routes that paralleled their 'non London' routes.
Some operators were better than others at making sure that 'LRT Service' slip-boards (and 'X County Council service' boards where appropriate) were shown / not shown correctly.
There still are all-red buses operating non-TfL services in the "borders". Sullivan Buses are among those who do. Not all of their fleet is red but red buses turn up, for example, on the 306 Watford - Borehamwood which meets the 107, 142, 258 and 292 all of them just outside the TfL boundary. This was (more or less) a LT Country Area route back in the day and one which retains its original number. It is supposed to have green buses but red ones appear regularly. Those of us with longer memories remember when LT red buses charged "country" fares on some routes extending beyond the GLC / LCC area into Surrey and other counties. These were still cheaper than the green "Country" bus fares iirc though they might have been matched over common sections.
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Post by yunus on Mar 30, 2024 9:24:42 GMT
Where can I catch a Scania MMC or even old bodied E400 with a Scania chassis closest to London?
Thanks
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Post by Busboy105 on Mar 30, 2024 9:40:56 GMT
Where can I catch a Scania MMC or even old bodied E400 with a Scania chassis closest to London? Thanks There were some roaming around Bognor Regis when I was there couple of years back.
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Post by cambus on Mar 30, 2024 9:49:34 GMT
Where can I catch a Scania MMC or even old bodied E400 with a Scania chassis closest to London? Thanks There were some roaming around Bognor Regis when I was there couple of years back. Cambridge have quite a few roaming around. Leonard
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Post by SILENCED on Mar 30, 2024 10:37:22 GMT
Where can I catch a Scania MMC or even old bodied E400 with a Scania chassis closest to London? Thanks 409 from Selsdon seems usually run by them, then check out some of the other ex- Southdown services south of Sutton
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Post by yunus on Mar 30, 2024 11:30:15 GMT
Where can I catch a Scania MMC or even old bodied E400 with a Scania chassis closest to London? Thanks There were some roaming around Bognor Regis when I was there couple of years back. Funny you say Bognor Regis, I used to be obsessed with that place cos of Butlins were my fun childhood memories took place.
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Post by Busboy105 on Mar 30, 2024 12:16:40 GMT
There were some roaming around Bognor Regis when I was there couple of years back. Funny you say Bognor Regis, I used to be obsessed with that place cos of Butlins were my fun childhood memories took place. Same
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Post by southlondon413 on Mar 30, 2024 12:38:30 GMT
There were some roaming around Bognor Regis when I was there couple of years back. Funny you say Bognor Regis, I used to be obsessed with that place cos of Butlins were my fun childhood memories took place. Can’t say I’ve ever been to a Butlins, not my scene.
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 30, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
Funny you say Bognor Regis, I used to be obsessed with that place cos of Butlins were my fun childhood memories took place. Same I must have gone there about 1993. Fun memories.
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