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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 28, 2017 21:28:28 GMT
707005 was reported to have arrived at Clapham Junction in the early hours of this morning (according to a post on Rail UK), bringing the 707s up to 4 units. 001 has also had its 'special paint job' removed. The next delivery should comprise of two units in a fortnight... You'll know this : will the 707s be restricted to Windsor line services or is there a chance my commute (either Kingston, Hampton Court, Walton or Cobham and Stoke d'Abernon) might see one occasionally?
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Post by thewintersoldier on Jan 29, 2017 0:29:05 GMT
707005 was reported to have arrived at Clapham Junction in the early hours of this morning (according to a post on Rail UK), bringing the 707s up to 4 units. 001 has also had its 'special paint job' removed. The next delivery should comprise of two units in a fortnight... You'll know this : will the 707s be restricted to Windsor line services or is there a chance my commute (either Kingston, Hampton Court, Walton or Cobham and Stoke d'Abernon) might see one occasionally? Shouldn't end up on those routes I am afraid. They will be route cleared yes but won't run in service.
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Post by T.R. on Jan 29, 2017 0:30:52 GMT
You'll know this : will the 707s be restricted to Windsor line services or is there a chance my commute (either Kingston, Hampton Court, Walton or Cobham and Stoke d'Abernon) might see one occasionally? Correct. They will be deployed on Windsor, Weybridge via Hounslow, and Hounslow Loop services. However, given that the new South Western franchise requires the 455/456s to be replaced, we could potentially see more on the latter routes... Edit: Mr Winter Soldier beat me to it
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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 29, 2017 1:14:32 GMT
You'll know this : will the 707s be restricted to Windsor line services or is there a chance my commute (either Kingston, Hampton Court, Walton or Cobham and Stoke d'Abernon) might see one occasionally? Correct. They will be deployed on Windsor, Weybridge via Hounslow, and Hounslow Loop services. However, given that the new South Western franchise requires the 455/456s to be replaced, we could potentially see more on the latter routes... Edit: Mr Winter Soldier beat me to it The replacement of the 455/456's are not yet confirmed, or am I missing something? The platforms along the Kingston line are long enough to take 10 cars, so if there is a shortage of 455/456's on the 10 car evening peak Strawberry Hill loop service, then 707's may well be used.
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Post by TA1 on Jan 29, 2017 2:06:44 GMT
Correct. They will be deployed on Windsor, Weybridge via Hounslow, and Hounslow Loop services. However, given that the new South Western franchise requires the 455/456s to be replaced, we could potentially see more on the latter routes... Edit: Mr Winter Soldier beat me to it The replacement of the 455/456's are not yet confirmed, or am I missing something? The platforms along the Kingston line are long enough to take 10 cars, so if there is a shortage of 455/456's on the 10 car evening peak Strawberry Hill loop service, then 707's may well be used. Re-read what the original poster wrote, the new franchise ITT requires for the 455's and 456's to be replaced in the upcoming franchise and to bring in a universal fleet 707's may be the chosen stock; still surprised there hasn't been announcement as to the new operator of the south western franchise will be.
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Post by snowman on Jan 29, 2017 8:20:13 GMT
The replacement of the 455/456's are not yet confirmed, or am I missing something? The platforms along the Kingston line are long enough to take 10 cars, so if there is a shortage of 455/456's on the 10 car evening peak Strawberry Hill loop service, then 707's may well be used. Re-read what the original poster wrote, the new franchise ITT requires for the 455's and 456's to be replaced in the upcoming franchise and to bring in a universal fleet 707's may be the chosen stock; still surprised there hasn't been announcement as to the new operator of the south western franchise will be. The proposed franchise also includes DOO for the suburban network so Government need to 'win' the Southern dispute first, only then can they roll it out to new franchises. If dispute drags on can't easily make it a specification for SWT The rolling stock replacement is to be decided. At the moment some of the surburban trains are going to have to stay as 8 car as not enough 2 car units to extend them to 10 car, additional trains are needed if 10 car is required across whole suburban network. The diesel trains and 456s and 458s can be replaced without penalty, but there are section 54 agreements on the following (requires paying for them, as part of the deal to source the trains) until : 455 fleet (364 vehicles) 01/02/18 707 fleet (150 vehicles) 31/03/19 444 fleet (225 vehicles) 23/04/25 450 fleet (508 vehicles) 23/04/25 Note not stuck with 707s, could replace whole surburban fleet with a new type.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 29, 2017 9:40:31 GMT
Thanks, all
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Post by YY13VKP on Jan 29, 2017 12:36:04 GMT
Re-read what the original poster wrote, the new franchise ITT requires for the 455's and 456's to be replaced in the upcoming franchise and to bring in a universal fleet 707's may be the chosen stock; still surprised there hasn't been announcement as to the new operator of the south western franchise will be. The proposed franchise also includes DOO for the suburban network so Government need to 'win' the Southern dispute first, only then can they roll it out to new franchises. If dispute drags on can't easily make it a specification for SWT The rolling stock replacement is to be decided. At the moment some of the surburban trains are going to have to stay as 8 car as not enough 2 car units to extend them to 10 car, additional trains are needed if 10 car is required across whole suburban network. The diesel trains and 456s and 458s can be replaced without penalty, but there are section 54 agreements on the following (requires paying for them, as part of the deal to source the trains) until : 455 fleet (364 vehicles) 01/02/18 707 fleet (150 vehicles) 31/03/19 444 fleet (225 vehicles) 23/04/25 450 fleet (508 vehicles) 23/04/25 Note not stuck with 707s, could replace whole surburban fleet with a new type. Thats interesting then. The 455's are being retractioned to keep them beyond 2020 (at least till 2024) and now they're getting replaced. The 456's have only been with SWT since 2014. I could see (but unlikely) Southern taking the redundant 455/8's and maybe 456's to create more 8/10 car Metro services (before their 455's are replaced in 2021). The reason why I suggest this is that more and more people are using the Southern network and they could take a leaf out of SWT's book and make all Suburban services 8/10 cars. (I have only seen two SWT Metro services run as a solo 4 car 455 within the last 5 months). but for the rest of the fleet, they'll probably end up being scrapped because there is no other company which operates on Third Rail that needs them, unless Southern take the 455/7's and remove the TSO's from the 508's for Coastway services, replacing the 313's but the 377/3's can quite easily replace the 313's if displaced by other stock.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 29, 2017 12:50:55 GMT
The proposed franchise also includes DOO for the suburban network so Government need to 'win' the Southern dispute first, only then can they roll it out to new franchises. If dispute drags on can't easily make it a specification for SWT The rolling stock replacement is to be decided. At the moment some of the surburban trains are going to have to stay as 8 car as not enough 2 car units to extend them to 10 car, additional trains are needed if 10 car is required across whole suburban network. The diesel trains and 456s and 458s can be replaced without penalty, but there are section 54 agreements on the following (requires paying for them, as part of the deal to source the trains) until : 455 fleet (364 vehicles) 01/02/18 707 fleet (150 vehicles) 31/03/19 444 fleet (225 vehicles) 23/04/25 450 fleet (508 vehicles) 23/04/25 Note not stuck with 707s, could replace whole surburban fleet with a new type. Thats interesting then. The 455's are being retractioned to keep them beyond 2020 (at least till 2024) and now they're getting replaced. The 456's have only been with SWT since 2014. I could see (but unlikely) Southern taking the redundant 455/8's and maybe 456's to create more 8/10 car Metro services (before their 455's are replaced in 2021). The reason why I suggest this is that more and more people are using the Southern network and they could take a leaf out of SWT's book and make all Suburban services 8/10 cars. (I have only seen two SWT Metro services run as a solo 4 car 455 within the last 5 months). but for the rest of the fleet, they'll probably end up being scrapped because there is no other company which operates on Third Rail that needs them, unless Southern take the 455/7's and remove the TSO's from the 508's for Coastway services, replacing the 313's but the 377/3's can quite easily replace the 313's if displaced by other stock. This all depends how competitive the ROSCO is with lease costs on 455s. If they are offering a competitive deal which interests one bidder and not the other, it could be the difference between winning and losing the bid
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Post by snowman on Jan 29, 2017 12:51:08 GMT
I could see a few 455/7 reduced to 3car and kept for locals Southampton- Portsmouth and Lymington branch etc.
Would be a cheap way of freeing up some 450s to lengthen some 8 car peak hour trains
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Post by snoggle on Jan 29, 2017 12:59:38 GMT
The replacement of the 455/456's are not yet confirmed, or am I missing something? The platforms along the Kingston line are long enough to take 10 cars, so if there is a shortage of 455/456's on the 10 car evening peak Strawberry Hill loop service, then 707's may well be used. Re-read what the original poster wrote, the new franchise ITT requires for the 455's and 456's to be replaced in the upcoming franchise and to bring in a universal fleet 707's may be the chosen stock; still surprised there hasn't been announcement as to the new operator of the south western franchise will be. I suspect there are several issues with the SWT award. 1. The franchise hand over date is currently scheduled to be in the middle of the Waterloo August bloackade works. Not exactly sensible if Stagecoach don't retain the contract. There may be procurement issues here if the date needs to go back by more than 4 weeks. Also they'd need Stagecoach "on side" to keep running the trains if they've not retained the franchise. Stagecoach are not exactly known for their co-operative spirit on the SWT franchise. 2. The DfT will have to tell the Mayor that they have (amazed if they don't do this) removed the provision for separation of inner suburban services from main line ones into a separate accounting unit to allow for possible devolution to TfL. More rows and arguments with City Hall. 3. There must be some linkage to CR2 preparatory works. As CR2 has "gone off air" recently this may be making it hard to frame obligations for the franchisee, even if only limited ones, in the scope of the franchise contract. 4. Is there sufficient industry capacity to build a potentially large fleet of new trains in the envisagd timescale. 5. Does Network Rail have the capacity to do whatever infrastructure works may be needed to support the franchisee's plans? This is crucial given the failings on so many other projects elsewhere in the country that may undermine franchisee plans and finances. 6. Snowman's point about DOO is very pertinent too. 7. There must be some level of concerns from bidders about how they are "protected" in the context of any economic turbulence. Commuter franchises can lose revenue and pax very quickly if the London economy tanks. All the above being said the announcement really should be imminent as we're running out of time for a new franchisee to mobilise. It will be fascinating to see who wins though as I expect it will have been hard fought and I wonder how willing Mr Souter will be to "outbid" First Group to keep his beloved SWT.?
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Post by T.R. on Feb 13, 2017 10:22:11 GMT
Found a video on YouTube of the 707s testing on the Chertsey (?) branch:
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 13, 2017 10:55:49 GMT
Found a video on YouTube of the 707s testing on the Chertsey (?) branch: Will they be tested on the Kingston loop/Shepperton line? I recently saw a video of one at Strawberry Hill for depot testing.
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Post by T.R. on Feb 13, 2017 17:09:10 GMT
Found a video on YouTube of the 707s testing on the Chertsey (?) branch: Will they be tested on the Kingston loop/Shepperton line? I recently saw a video of one at Strawberry Hill for depot testing. This could e a possibility as one was briefly Wimbledon depot. Time will tell I guess
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Post by snoggle on Feb 13, 2017 17:35:13 GMT
It's probably due to unfamiliarity but I still can't get used to those Siemens trains sounding as if they're powered by "aliens on acid". They make the most unusual / ridiculous noise.
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