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Post by SILENCED on Jun 5, 2021 19:00:21 GMT
The 61reg SENs & 65reg SEs combined should be a good fit for the 413's allocation. However, there are only enough WHVs to cover this cascade, rather than fully converting the 80 to DDs. Will the SOEs and a few other SEs remain on the 80 alongside, or perhaps Go Ahead will scrape together some Es or WVLs to provide enough DDs. However, this cascade now only relies on the 200's Mes entering service - will the MCLs still need to be loaned to Go Ahead? Had previously thought the 355 would have been a better candidate here - better matching the 413's allocation size and the number of spare WHVs available at AL. Would also allow the 4x WSs at MB to remain on the 358 for longer if needed, and withdraw the older Es at C temporarily used on the 119/355. I expect the S1's OMs will be kept, as these have recently been refurbished with the Go Ahead moquette. However, the S1 will need longer SDs as part of the Sutton changes - I could perhaps see the OMs eventually swapped to the 413 when extended to Belmont, with the S1 using the 10.8m SEs instead. Not sure what will happen with route 455, as it was recently given a contract extension. Unless the contract is withdrawn early anyway, the only other possibility might be for one of the new routes to take over the contract (similar to the 48/335). Perhaps Abellio's current S4 contract could be used for the new S2, with Go Ahead's 455 contract being replaced by the revised S4 (which partly replaces it around Beddington). I think that the 443 will be involved, as bus routes 439 and S2 are up for tender whereas the 443 is not. Or maybe the 455 is staying... Do we know what the current contract termination clauses are? It maybe TfL have saved the required notice as it is late in the contract term. Knew in the early days contracts could not be cancelled in first 3 years by either side .... but could after serving the appropriate notice period. However things evolve, so it maybe harder or easier these days.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 5, 2021 19:00:33 GMT
So todays LOTS news seems to have confirmed what we all were guessing, that the 80 will convert to DD using ex-200/202 WHVs with the 10.8m SEs taking over on the 413. Seems like the Sutton/Croydon changes are all bus confirmed at this point. Maybe there will be enough spares from the ex-80 SE and ex-455 SE to convert the S1 to SE or to allow cascades to the S1. Poor 355 gets overlooked yet again, not surprised as the current and the former mayor could not give a stuff about Lambeth. It could still with the ex 63 MHVs.
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Post by busoccultation on Jun 5, 2021 19:01:56 GMT
The 61reg SENs & 65reg SEs combined should be a good fit for the 413's allocation. However, there are only enough WHVs to cover this cascade, rather than fully converting the 80 to DDs. Will the SOEs and a few other SEs remain on the 80 alongside, or perhaps Go Ahead will scrape together some Es or WVLs to provide enough DDs. However, this cascade now only relies on the 200's Mes entering service - will the MCLs still need to be loaned to Go Ahead? Had previously thought the 355 would have been a better candidate here - better matching the 413's allocation size and the number of spare WHVs available at AL. Would also allow the 4x WSs at MB to remain on the 358 for longer if needed, and withdraw the older Es at C temporarily used on the 119/355. I expect the S1's OMs will be kept, as these have recently been refurbished with the Go Ahead moquette. However, the S1 will need longer SDs as part of the Sutton changes - I could perhaps see the OMs eventually swapped to the 413 when extended to Belmont, with the S1 using the 10.8m SEs instead. Not sure what will happen with route 455, as it was recently given a contract extension. Unless the contract is withdrawn early anyway, the only other possibility might be for one of the new routes to take over the contract (similar to the 48/335). Perhaps Abellio's current S4 contract could be used for the new S2, with Go Ahead's 455 contract being replaced by the revised S4 (which partly replaces it around Beddington). There are 12 WHVs on the 200, I’m sure GAL will be able to find 4 more buses to make up the 80s requirement as there are already plenty of spares at A already. I think but I’m not 100% sure that WHV104 is still a spare at AL. I suspect the priority is to get at least 8 Mes into service to free WHVs for the 80 without needing to hire the MCLs. A few of the older buses including WVL422, EN28 & E203 are also currently allocated to the 200 so maybe those could move to the 80 if they want to covert the route fully to DD in one go, but as you said the WHV's alone can release enough buses for the 413 to use.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 19:05:19 GMT
Poor 355 gets overlooked yet again, not surprised as the current and the former mayor could not give a stuff about Lambeth. It could still with the ex 63 MHVs. That would then allow WS to be allocated to the S1 removing a non-standard body type. I know the OM are being refurbished but I just don’t see them lasting long within the GAL fleet. I’d expect them to be replaced at some point with other vehicles.
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 5, 2021 19:19:51 GMT
It could still with the ex 63 MHVs. That would then allow WS to be allocated to the S1 removing a non-standard body type. I know the OM are being refurbished but I just don’t see them lasting long within the GAL fleet. I’d expect them to be replaced at some point with other vehicles. Curious as to why you think they would they would be bearing the cost of vehicles refurbs if they expect a quick disposal? Surely the money would be better utilised on refurbing the intended vehicles if this was the case.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 19:25:13 GMT
That would then allow WS to be allocated to the S1 removing a non-standard body type. I know the OM are being refurbished but I just don’t see them lasting long within the GAL fleet. I’d expect them to be replaced at some point with other vehicles. Curious as to why you think they would they would be bearing the cost of vehicles refurbs if they expect a quick disposal? Surely the money would be better utilised on refurbing the intended vehicles if this was the case. But how do you know RATP aren’t paying for these refurbs and agreed to put GAL moquette instead? As far as I am aware none of the units done previously have been redone. Besides given recent removals of various Scania models like those on the 353 and the 405 before it was lost I would be surprised if these lasted long.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 5, 2021 20:27:28 GMT
I saw E66 yesterday still in London General livery. Been wondering is it only Go-Ahead now has buses on normal TfL services still not in 100% red livery? E151 at MB as well, probably a few others around the place. Think there may be a few at SW? BX still has E131, 132, 133, 134 and SE75 in old livery, and I’m pretty sure E129 at MG is the same.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 5, 2021 20:29:21 GMT
The 61reg SENs & 65reg SEs combined should be a good fit for the 413's allocation. However, there are only enough WHVs to cover this cascade, rather than fully converting the 80 to DDs. Will the SOEs and a few other SEs remain on the 80 alongside, or perhaps Go Ahead will scrape together some Es or WVLs to provide enough DDs. However, this cascade now only relies on the 200's Mes entering service - will the MCLs still need to be loaned to Go Ahead? Had previously thought the 355 would have been a better candidate here - better matching the 413's allocation size and the number of spare WHVs available at AL. Would also allow the 4x WSs at MB to remain on the 358 for longer if needed, and withdraw the older Es at C temporarily used on the 119/355. I expect the S1's OMs will be kept, as these have recently been refurbished with the Go Ahead moquette. However, the S1 will need longer SDs as part of the Sutton changes - I could perhaps see the OMs eventually swapped to the 413 when extended to Belmont, with the S1 using the 10.8m SEs instead. Not sure what will happen with route 455, as it was recently given a contract extension. Unless the contract is withdrawn early anyway, the only other possibility might be for one of the new routes to take over the contract (similar to the 48/335). Perhaps Abellio's current S4 contract could be used for the new S2, with Go Ahead's 455 contract being replaced by the revised S4 (which partly replaces it around Beddington). There are 12 WHVs on the 200, I’m sure GAL will be able to find 4 more buses to make up the 80s requirement as there are already plenty of spares at A already. I think but I’m not 100% sure that WHV104 is still a spare at AL. I suspect the priority is to get at least 8 Mes into service to free WHVs for the 80 without needing to hire the MCLs. I think there are 13 G3 WHVs at AL currently (WHV71-81/104/108) - however route 80 has a PVR of 16 so would need 18 including spares. However, LOTS specifically says "to start to convert route 80 to double-deck", so I expect this is a shorter term allocation primarily to free up SEs/SENs to the 413. It's been suggested that other DDs currently used on the 200 could move to the 80, however the 200 has a slightly smaller PVR, and some of these Es/WVLs are taken from other routes' allocations (where other garages are likely relying on fewer spares for now) - including WVL277 from the 321, WVL422 from the D7, EN28 from the 51 and E203 from the 37.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 5, 2021 20:34:05 GMT
There are 12 WHVs on the 200, I’m sure GAL will be able to find 4 more buses to make up the 80s requirement as there are already plenty of spares at A already. I think but I’m not 100% sure that WHV104 is still a spare at AL. I suspect the priority is to get at least 8 Mes into service to free WHVs for the 80 without needing to hire the MCLs. I think there are 13 G3 WHVs at AL currently (WHV71-81/104/108) - however route 80 has a PVR of 16 so would need 18 including spares. However, LOTS specifically says "to start to convert route 80 to double-deck", so I expect this is a shorter term allocation primarily to free up SEs/SENs to the 413. It's been suggested that other DDs currently used on the 200 could move to the 80, however the 200 has a slightly smaller PVR, and some of these Es/WVLs are taken from other routes' allocations (where other garages are likely relying on fewer spares for now) - including WVL277 from the 321, WVL422 from the D7, EN28 from the 51 and E203 from the 37. The 80 could quite easily get away with one spare less as we’ve seen before on many occasions so all 17 buses could move over for a full conversion should they wish to do so.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 20:38:08 GMT
So with the W15 taking half of the 507/521 SEe batch when Go Ahead takes over, my question is will the buses actually comfortably get around the route since I thought the buses were 11.9m? Do correct me if my information is wrong!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2021 20:39:38 GMT
I think there are 13 G3 WHVs at AL currently (WHV71-81/104/108) - however route 80 has a PVR of 16 so would need 18 including spares. However, LOTS specifically says "to start to convert route 80 to double-deck", so I expect this is a shorter term allocation primarily to free up SEs/SENs to the 413. It's been suggested that other DDs currently used on the 200 could move to the 80, however the 200 has a slightly smaller PVR, and some of these Es/WVLs are taken from other routes' allocations (where other garages are likely relying on fewer spares for now) - including WVL277 from the 321, WVL422 from the D7, EN28 from the 51 and E203 from the 37. The 80 could quite easily get away with one spare less as we’ve seen before on many occasions so all 17 buses could move over for a full conversion should they wish to do so. I think 1 spare would be sufficient for the 80, by my calculation there are already about 10 spares at A which is more than enough.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 5, 2021 20:43:13 GMT
So with the W15 taking half of the 507/521 SEe batch when Go Ahead takes over, my question is will the buses actually comfortably get around the route since I thought the buses were 11.9m? Do correct me if my information is wrong! According to LOTS the vehicles released from the 507/521 will indirectly provide buses for the W15, so won't be used directly on the route. It will be interesting to see which routes are involved in the cascade.
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Post by YY13VKP on Jun 5, 2021 20:52:07 GMT
The 439 would be a potential place for the 455 contract and could use the current SEs on the 455. Sadly parked cars and a tight turn off Oaks Way in Kenley will prevent that from happening. If the 439 is routed via Higher Drive then there’s absolutely no chance anything longer than 9.3m will fit round that route due to a few tight turns, most notably at Cullesden Road in Kenley
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 5, 2021 20:57:39 GMT
The 439 would be a potential place for the 455 contract and could use the current SEs on the 455. Sadly parked cars and a tight turn off Oaks Way in Kenley will prevent that from happening. If the 439 is routed via Higher Drive then there’s absolutely no chance anything longer than 9.3m will fit round that route due to a few tight turns, most notably at Cullesden Road in Kenley The buses from the S1 might be good with the S1 using the collection from the 455.
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jun 5, 2021 21:27:24 GMT
That would then allow WS to be allocated to the S1 removing a non-standard body type. I know the OM are being refurbished but I just don’t see them lasting long within the GAL fleet. I’d expect them to be replaced at some point with other vehicles. Curious as to why you think they would they would be bearing the cost of vehicles refurbs if they expect a quick disposal? Surely the money would be better utilised on refurbing the intended vehicles if this was the case. Or maybe they'll cascade them to the 485 at PL to use them to remove the SOE's from there.
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