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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 5, 2021 21:44:56 GMT
I think there are 13 G3 WHVs at AL currently (WHV71-81/104/108) - however route 80 has a PVR of 16 so would need 18 including spares. However, LOTS specifically says "to start to convert route 80 to double-deck", so I expect this is a shorter term allocation primarily to free up SEs/SENs to the 413. It's been suggested that other DDs currently used on the 200 could move to the 80, however the 200 has a slightly smaller PVR, and some of these Es/WVLs are taken from other routes' allocations (where other garages are likely relying on fewer spares for now) - including WVL277 from the 321, WVL422 from the D7, EN28 from the 51 and E203 from the 37. The 80 could quite easily get away with one spare less as we’ve seen before on many occasions so all 17 buses could move over for a full conversion should they wish to do so. I think they probably will wish to over the rest of the year so they can effectively remove SDs from A rather then having a very small number hanging on for a part 80 allocation.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 5, 2021 22:39:20 GMT
Curious as to why you think they would they would be bearing the cost of vehicles refurbs if they expect a quick disposal? Surely the money would be better utilised on refurbing the intended vehicles if this was the case. Or maybe they'll cascade them to the 485 at PL to use them to remove the SOE's from there. The 485 currently has 5 SOE's and there are 13 OM's so I don't think that will happen - in fact, I don't see the S1 gaining anything and instead see it keeping the OM's for as long as they are reliable enough to satisfy Go-Ahead. Realistically, only AL would satisfy a standardisation argument and only the 164 there matches the 13 OM's completely but already has compliant vehicles. They could use them to remove some of the SOE's at AL should they wish.
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Post by portman227 on Jun 5, 2021 23:50:31 GMT
So with the W15 taking half of the 507/521 SEe batch when Go Ahead takes over, my question is will the buses actually comfortably get around the route since I thought the buses were 11.9m? Do correct me if my information is wrong! W15 i believe uses 10.8m but i don't think it can take any longer than that. 11.9 is a stretch tbh, W15 i believe does go through some tight roads. it would make sense to indirectly use them on the 358 instead. A lot of work would need to be done before they even reach those routes.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 6, 2021 1:13:52 GMT
So with the W15 taking half of the 507/521 SEe batch when Go Ahead takes over, my question is will the buses actually comfortably get around the route since I thought the buses were 11.9m? Do correct me if my information is wrong! W15 i believe uses 10.8m but i don't think it can take any longer than that. 11.9 is a stretch tbh, W15 i believe does go through some tight roads. it would make sense to indirectly use them on the 358 instead. A lot of work would need to be done before they even reach those routes. The W15 uses 10.2m vehicles - I believe it was mentioned that longer examples have gone out on a few occasions but it's not ideal at all, someone can correct me on that last bit. The 358 is to receive Irizar ieTram's with pantograph charging units installed at Crystal Palace & Orpington (Orpington one is still subject to permission). The reason this is happening is because the range of SEe's and practically all other electric vehicles is insufficient to cover duties on the 358 and this is before factoring in any range loss on existing buses. Not only that but it will also see how effective pantograph charging is which is already in use in other countries (and possibly elsewhere in the UK). The 132 is to under go a similar trial although it's pantograph will be in BX itself and will be with it's ordered batch of Ee's. Go-Ahead do have the 360 & 444 which both have seen 12m vehicles before (444 saw 12m hydrogen vehicles whilst the 360 has seen some SEe's from the 507 & 521 batch) which would release sufficient 10.9m examples. The question then becomes whether the W15 can pass a route test with a 10.9m example or whether something like the 214, which is the only route with SEe's of 10.2m and which has seen a number of 10.9m workings, takes the 10.9m examples instead cascading the 10.2m examples to the W15 - I'm sure we'll find out in the coming months.
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Post by Ts_As on Jun 6, 2021 2:14:46 GMT
So with the W15 taking half of the 507/521 SEe batch when Go Ahead takes over, my question is will the buses actually comfortably get around the route since I thought the buses were 11.9m? Do correct me if my information is wrong! According to LOTS the vehicles released from the 507/521 will indirectly provide buses for the W15, so won't be used directly on the route. It will be interesting to see which routes are involved in the cascade.
It’s either 214 or 444
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Post by secretbu5dude on Jun 6, 2021 2:52:57 GMT
According to LOTS the vehicles released from the 507/521 will indirectly provide buses for the W15, so won't be used directly on the route. It will be interesting to see which routes are involved in the cascade.
It’s either 214 or 444 I'd guess 444 since they've had the Wright hydrogens on before, so they could handle the length presumably 🤔 don't know about 214 👀
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Post by dlroper on Jun 6, 2021 5:59:02 GMT
E151 at MB as well, probably a few others around the place. Think there may be a few at SW? BX still has E131, 132, 133, 134 and SE75 in old livery, and I’m pretty sure E129 at MG is the same. It is & SE152 too Attachment Deleted
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Post by redexpress on Jun 6, 2021 7:18:57 GMT
I'd guess 444 since they've had the Wright hydrogens on before, so they could handle the length presumably 🤔 don't know about 214 👀 444 on its own wouldn't release enough buses. Maybe 360 plus 444? Still raises the question of whether 10.8m buses can get round the W15 though.
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Post by adl on Jun 6, 2021 8:04:33 GMT
I'd guess 444 since they've had the Wright hydrogens on before, so they could handle the length presumably 🤔 don't know about 214 👀 444 on its own wouldn't release enough buses. Maybe 360 plus 444? Still raises the question of whether 10.8m buses can get round the W15 though. I think the best option would be to give the 184 the buses from the 507/521 and then the buses from the 184 go to the 214 which can take 10.8m and the W15 receives the 214s buses, the only issue is that they’ll need to order 2 more buses as the W15 requires 2 further buses and all but the 214s buses are longer then 10.2 so the W15 cannot accommodate it, so although it said fully existing I think potentially 2-3 buses could be ordered to top up the numbers. With any option there needs to be a 2-3 bus top up unless they pull down the PVR by 2 on the W15.
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 6, 2021 8:06:02 GMT
BX still has E131, 132, 133, 134 and SE75 in old livery, and I’m pretty sure E129 at MG is the same. It is & SE152 too View AttachmentWVL350-357 at MG
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 6, 2021 8:13:44 GMT
444 on its own wouldn't release enough buses. Maybe 360 plus 444? Still raises the question of whether 10.8m buses can get round the W15 though. I think the best option would be to give the 184 the buses from the 507/521 and then the buses from the 184 go to the 214 which can take 10.8m and the W15 receives the 214s buses, the only issue is that they’ll need to order 2 more buses as the W15 requires 2 further buses and all but the 214s buses are longer then 10.2 so the W15 cannot accommodate it, so although it said fully existing I think potentially 2-3 buses could be ordered to top up the numbers. With any option there needs to be a 2-3 bus top up unless they pull down the PVR by 2 on the W15. From what I have heard and do not take my word for it, is the vehicles from the 507 & 521 cuts will go to Routes 360 & 444 with the vehicles from those routes going to Route W15 which are 10.8m. Route 153 possibly moving to RA to replace the lost work. Judging from vjaska’s comments saying Routes 360 & 444 can take full sized single deckers I wouldn’t be surprised if this does happen.
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Post by mkay315 on Jun 6, 2021 8:56:32 GMT
So todays LOTS news seems to have confirmed what we all were guessing, that the 80 will convert to DD using ex-200/202 WHVs with the 10.8m SEs taking over on the 413. Seems like the Sutton/Croydon changes are all bus confirmed at this point. Maybe there will be enough spares from the ex-80 SE and ex-455 SE to convert the S1 to SE or to allow cascades to the S1. Poor 355 gets overlooked yet again, not surprised as the current and the former mayor could not give a stuff about Lambeth. Is there a way to get a petition started to get this route converted to double decker. I remembered the 78 (Arriva) had a similar situation back in 2010/11 when Val Shawcross was on the case.
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Post by snowman on Jun 6, 2021 9:13:03 GMT
I think the best option would be to give the 184 the buses from the 507/521 and then the buses from the 184 go to the 214 which can take 10.8m and the W15 receives the 214s buses, the only issue is that they’ll need to order 2 more buses as the W15 requires 2 further buses and all but the 214s buses are longer then 10.2 so the W15 cannot accommodate it, so although it said fully existing I think potentially 2-3 buses could be ordered to top up the numbers. With any option there needs to be a 2-3 bus top up unless they pull down the PVR by 2 on the W15. From what I have heard and do not take my word for it, is the vehicles from the 507 & 521 cuts will go to Routes 360 & 444 with the vehicles from those routes going to Route W15 which are 10.8m. Route 153 possibly moving to RA to replace the lost work. Judging from vjaska’s comments saying Routes 360 & 444 can take full sized single deckers I wouldn’t be surprised if this does happen. It would make sense, both have a PVR of 11 so with spares and charging time would be about 26-27 buses or roughly half the fleet of 507 and 521 Depending on how loose the definition of halving red arrow services are might be 0-4 buses short. But actually it appears W15 might struggle with buses over 10.2m so buying 1-3 extra 10.2m then mo ing over some 10.8m buses to another route to release 10.2m for W15 would be nice fit.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 6, 2021 10:54:12 GMT
I think the best option would be to give the 184 the buses from the 507/521 and then the buses from the 184 go to the 214 which can take 10.8m and the W15 receives the 214s buses, the only issue is that they’ll need to order 2 more buses as the W15 requires 2 further buses and all but the 214s buses are longer then 10.2 so the W15 cannot accommodate it, so although it said fully existing I think potentially 2-3 buses could be ordered to top up the numbers. With any option there needs to be a 2-3 bus top up unless they pull down the PVR by 2 on the W15. From what I have heard and do not take my word for it, is the vehicles from the 507 & 521 cuts will go to Routes 360 & 444 with the vehicles from those routes going to Route W15 which are 10.8m. Route 153 possibly moving to RA to replace the lost work. Judging from vjaska’s comments saying Routes 360 & 444 can take full sized single deckers I wouldn’t be surprised if this does happen. Do you think the 360 could be a contender to move to RA instead especially if it does indeed receive some of the 507 & 521 SEe’s as then that would keep as many as possible at one garage?
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jun 6, 2021 12:28:36 GMT
Poor 355 gets overlooked yet again, not surprised as the current and the former mayor could not give a stuff about Lambeth. Is there a way to get a petition started to get this route converted to double decker. I remembered the 78 (Arriva) had a similar situation back in 2010/11 when Val Shawcross was on the case. Increase the frequency of 355 buses to BrixtonOne that's already been started.
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