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Post by danorak on May 21, 2024 16:30:24 GMT
I remember Leon Daniels being less than impressed with BYD bodywork build quality back in the day so I hope it has improved.
Buses do seem to be getting uglier on the whole.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 21, 2024 16:33:00 GMT
I don't like that the rear route number display takes up a lot of the upper deck window. I don't like the fact none of the electric double deckers (bar Optare) has a rear lower deck window |
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 21, 2024 16:34:03 GMT
Had SEe331 this afternoon on the 439 and they are identical to the 450’s SEe’s onboard with no internal differences. I was expecting them to have USB-C chargers along with USB-A but they don’t. I also noticed it didn’t have a rear door alarm either which was very strange! Rear door alarms can easily be installed. I’ve driven a few buses without them in the past once reported an alarm is fitted. DW435 was once fitted with a Pedestrian Crossing Ramp Warning Sound it was highly annoying and soon replaced. Most have one screw and two spade connectors, easily done in a minute. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 21, 2024 16:37:15 GMT
Aftercare is net zero, as aftercare is needed whether built in UK or China. Shipping industry is hardly UK owned or operated. And given what comes through UK ports, the difference will be negligible. So much UK industry was decimated in the 70s and 8Os. It is probably why we are in such a bad financial state today. Do we want the country to become prosperous again, or are happy being a low waged poor economy. That stark choice. We either get paid like Chinese, protect our industries, or we just continue down the financial spiral the country is heading into chaos. You have to invest to be prosperous. Short term savings, make long term hardships. Having an industry based economy leaves it more exposed to economic recession, it’s why countries like China and India etc fared so badly post covid and still haven’t fully recovered. China, in some industries are down to 1-2 days working with full manpower. If our industry levels were the same today as they were in the 70s/80s then the UK would have suffered in the same way. Right now are economy has the balance between industry, finance and tech. Besides there really isn’t any word on if the order is confirmed, both BYD and Go Ahead declined to comment. Even then there is no word on where the vehicles would be produced, BYD might decide to use its site in Hungary. But I don’t see this as being any different to MCV using a site in Egypt to produce its Volvo based vehicles. Incidentally nobody here had a problem with a large Stagecoach order from a company based in Egypt for both London and Manchester so I’m struggling to see why this is any different. That is why they are better unlike the UK that went for a service based economy and then gets held to ransom when things like covid due to manufacturing virtually does not exist in this country. |
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Post by exbox on May 21, 2024 16:37:54 GMT
I remember Leon Daniels being less than impressed with BYD bodywork build quality back in the day so I hope it has improved. Buses do seem to be getting uglier on the whole. You can forgive a lot of quality issues if you're effectively getting every 5th bus for free in a market where price means pretty much everything and you're a publicly traded company charged with maximising returns for shareholders. |
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Post by M1104 on May 21, 2024 16:47:27 GMT
What would stop the 131? The 333 is receiving 10.9m Ee's so Tooting should be ok. I’m still skeptical about longer buses with worse turning circles using Longmead Road as there have been collisions such as a WVN/HA on the 127/333 a few years ago, and the stand can get chaotic if curtailments occur on other routes like the 44/77/280 etc. which has happened lately with all of the diversions and delays, but if it’s cleared then I cant see any issues. Some tight left turns maybe but the 264 does a really tight one leaving Blackshaw Road all day every day and is yet to have issues with it An ideal thing to do with long wheel base 131s to extend it to The Mitre if allowed, which would likely mean at least one extra bus required which could easily be napped from the 57's new and existing bus allocation |
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Post by allentc on May 21, 2024 17:31:46 GMT
Looks like the tried to do a cheap version of a Bova design from 20 years ago You are right! The area beneath the windscreen looks very much like a Bova Synergy. |
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se10
Conductor
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Post by se10 on May 21, 2024 17:39:00 GMT
I’m still skeptical about longer buses with worse turning circles using Longmead Road as there have been collisions such as a WVN/HA on the 127/333 a few years ago, and the stand can get chaotic if curtailments occur on other routes like the 44/77/280 etc. which has happened lately with all of the diversions and delays, but if it’s cleared then I cant see any issues. Some tight left turns maybe but the 264 does a really tight one leaving Blackshaw Road all day every day and is yet to have issues with it An ideal thing to do with long wheel base 131s to extend it to The Mitre if allowed, which would likely mean at least one extra bus required which could easily be napped from the 57's new and existing bus allocation Would be really good to see The Mitre brought back into use! |
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Post by SILENCED on May 21, 2024 17:40:58 GMT
Going back to the 70's one of the reasons why the British motor industry was flushed down the toilet. Strikes galore and a poor product. Its long been suspected that the Chinese government are heavily subsidizing their electric vehicle industry so much so that the EU Commission are looking into it:
If so, that creates an unfair advantage and we should move to protect our own industry (and jobs).
Was not even aware such moves had been discussed when I made my post yesterday. Maybe I should become an economist! 😂🤣😂 |
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Post by allentc on May 21, 2024 17:50:42 GMT
You can forgive a lot of quality issues if you're effectively getting every 5th bus for free in a market where price means pretty much everything and you're a publicly traded company charged with maximising returns for shareholders. Perhaps if a wholly commercial route with no state support then there is not much that can be done - they can buy what they want it's their money.
However, the likes of Go Ahead London are contracted by TfL funded in part by tax payers to run their routes. If it does come to light as the EU Commission suspect that China is state subsidizing their EV industry to create an unfair market then should there be some consideration given when awarding contracts that at least a certain % of buses should be purchased from a UK manufacturer/assembler? With TfL currently broke they don't have the luxury because the cheapest bid will likely win and with a 20% vehicle cost saving it is difficult to ignore but is at odds with Labour and what they stand for "working man", "protecting jobs" and unions etc.
But at what point do and should we move in to protect jobs in the UK? Do we allow for example China to flood us with cheap steel such that our own foundries become uneconomical and are decommissioned. We then become reliant on imports of steel. Which is great during peace time but if there was a war they (and other countries) would cut supply to protect their own interests posing a big national security risk because we are unable to build our own tanks, aircraft etc because we lack the raw materials. Once those facilities are closed down we also lose the skills and experience within the workforce to be able to restart them if needs be. Ok, buses aren't a national security issue but do we want to become wholly reliant on China who dominate the market place because they have priced others out and we become beholden to large price increases with little choice elsewhere because competition has been eliminated. Unfortunately politicians only look at the short term gains [savings] and not the longer term picture beyond their own term in office.
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Post by southlondon413 on May 21, 2024 18:04:12 GMT
You can forgive a lot of quality issues if you're effectively getting every 5th bus for free in a market where price means pretty much everything and you're a publicly traded company charged with maximising returns for shareholders. Perhaps if a wholly commercial route with no state support then there is not much that can be done - they can buy what they want it's their money.
However, the likes of Go Ahead London are contracted by TfL funded in part by tax payers to run their routes. If it does come to light as the EU Commission suspect that China is state subsidizing their EV industry to create an unfair market then should there be some consideration given when awarding contracts that at least a certain % of buses should be purchased from a UK manufacturer/assembler? With TfL currently broke they don't have the luxury because the cheapest bid will likely win and with a 20% vehicle cost saving it is difficult to ignore but is at odds with Labour and what they stand for "working man" and all that.
But at what point do and should we move in to protect jobs in the UK? Do we allow for example China to flood us with cheap steel such that our own foundries become uneconomical and are decommissioned. We then become reliant on imports of steel. Which is great during peace time but if there was a war they (and other countries) would cut supply to protect their own interests posing a big national security risk because we are unable to build our tanks, aircraft etc. Once those facilities are closed down we also lose the skills and experience in the workforce to be able to restart them if needs be. Ok, buses aren't a national security issue but do we want to become wholly reliant on China who dominate the market place because they have priced others out and we become beholden to large price increases with little choice elsewhere because competition has been eliminated. Unfortunately politicians only look at the short term gains [savings] and not the longer term picture beyond their own term in office.
The UK isn’t in the EU, whatever they choose to do has zero bearing on the UK and its sovereignty. As for TfL it is down to their management to authorise bus types for TfL specification, politics has zero part of that. But just remind me, how would a Chinese company supplying a TfL operator with vehicles be any different than MCV or Volvo or Scania or any other non-UK based manufacturer supplying vehicles. The EU are nothing but hypocrites so their word will be meaningless and only reduce competition in markets. As for steel, it’s a bit late. The UK and the EU has already been outworked. The reality is it’s cheaper to produce it elsewhere and stick it in a container or on a flatrack and ship it over. |
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Post by SILENCED on May 21, 2024 18:04:17 GMT
You can forgive a lot of quality issues if you're effectively getting every 5th bus for free in a market where price means pretty much everything and you're a publicly traded company charged with maximising returns for shareholders. Perhaps if a wholly commercial route with no state support then there is not much that can be done - they can buy what they want it's their money.
However, the likes of Go Ahead London are contracted by TfL funded in part by tax payers to run their routes. If it does come to light as the EU Commission suspect that China is state subsidizing their EV industry to create an unfair market then should there be some consideration given when awarding contracts that at least a certain % of buses should be purchased from a UK manufacturer/assembler? With TfL currently broke they don't have the luxury because the cheapest bid will likely win and with a 20% vehicle cost saving it is difficult to ignore but is at odds with Labour and what they stand for "working man", "protecting jobs" and unions etc.
But at what point do and should we move in to protect jobs in the UK? Do we allow for example China to flood us with cheap steel such that our own foundries become uneconomical and are decommissioned. We then become reliant on imports of steel. Which is great during peace time but if there was a war they (and other countries) would cut supply to protect their own interests posing a big national security risk because we are unable to build our own tanks, aircraft etc because we lack the raw materials. Once those facilities are closed down we also lose the skills and experience within the workforce to be able to restart them if needs be. Ok, buses aren't a national security issue but do we want to become wholly reliant on China who dominate the market place because they have priced others out and we become beholden to large price increases with little choice elsewhere because competition has been eliminated. Unfortunately politicians only look at the short term gains [savings] and not the longer term picture beyond their own term in office.
Going back to a war footing ... Bus builders could easily make other types of vehicle if the need arose, rather than having to start fro scratch. All the cheap shite you see advertised on Facebook and the like comes from China ... it may seem cheap, but you normally end up throwing it away after 12-24 months as it is crap ... let's hope it does not come back to bite epthe arse off the passengers, the operators and TfL. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 21, 2024 18:32:19 GMT
For people asking for the picture of the BYD Integral, I believe this is the 'BYD eBus BD11' The front lower treatment looks crap, just like the initial BYD decker that was running on route 7 I think BYD somehow have the ex-head designer Alfa Romeo, Audi and Lamborghini working for them now yet still manage to release such horrific designs.  |
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 21, 2024 18:34:38 GMT
What would stop the 131? The 333 is receiving 10.9m Ee's so Tooting should be ok. Did the 22 not use 10.7 Geminis before, which would make that route likely to be fine with such vehicles too? Not sure what awkward turns there are on that route anyway, a lot of the route is covered by LTs or 10.9m BYDs (i.e. routes 11, 265, 49, 137). Is it Berkeley Square? Perhaps the turn at Green Park Station now which seems to be often obstructed by parked vehicles. I hope everyone here is right in that it won't be sent to the 22 and 88 because that is a horrific downgrade from an E400MMC but the new BYD claims to have an improved turn radius from the ADL-BYD E400 so who knows. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on May 21, 2024 18:36:12 GMT
I remember Leon Daniels being less than impressed with BYD bodywork build quality back in the day so I hope it has improved. Buses do seem to be getting uglier on the whole. You can forgive a lot of quality issues if you're effectively getting every 5th bus for free in a market where price means pretty much everything and you're a publicly traded company charged with maximising returns for shareholders. If your bus lasts 8 years instead of 16 (or less as has been the case in Hong Kong and Macau with the mainland Chinese trash that has been introduced) but are only paying 25% less (an estimate), that's not very good in the long run. |
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