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Post by lj61nwc on Jul 27, 2024 19:05:35 GMT
They cant really determine the amount of people who get off in one area or how many people travel between two specific points on the route. It costs just under £10 to travel via london each way in the peaks, it will just force the hand of multiple people who either commute from end to end on the route or use the route to get to the airport from croydon to leave the country to just use their car or get an uber/taxi instead. Coming back to another one of your points prior, how "has [it] become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore" when only 10 out of the last 2386 journeys have been curtailed with all 10 being at hatton cross providing minimal inconvenience. Thats less than 0.5% There have been multiple reports of buses bunching throughout the route, and wasn't there that report of a bus having to regulate for more than 20 minutes at one point? They very well can determine where people get off and have been doing so for years. If Oyster card number ABC taps on at Croydon in the morning, then taps on at Hatton Cross in the evening again you can probably decipher where the person had got off in the morning. Any regular commuters will have such travel patterns and TfL do have the algorithms to work all of this out. It's exactly why when a change involving a route you frequently use results in you being emailed about it. You will know where the people are getting on and getting off, how many people do this 5 days a week and how many people do this a few times a week. TfL site on a gold-mine of data, and this data is probably far more vast than any of us can even think it would be. What's published on the website will only be a fraction of what they have available to them. It's natural to be against any changes that inconvenience you, and changes often will inconvenience someone somewhere. But the fact is that despite there have been multiple controversial changes, what TfL have used as justification for them has often proved right. It was easy to be up in arms when the 25 was cut back, but TfL very well knew people would switch to the Elizabeth Line and that the 8 could take the hit of any other displaced passengers, the 8 has been fine since the 25 cut back and people are now used to the change. When the 48 was withdrawn there was similar outcry that the 55 wouldn't cope, but like TfL said it would it did, and even then justified a PVR decrease on tender which also has been fine and hasn't collapsed the route from sheer number of people using it. People using the SL7 to go on holiday aren't a consideration in its figures from Croydon, a lot of people will already get a cab and these are not frequent commuters of the route who are the likely ones to see any actual inconvenience. Really if you can afford a flight out of Heathrow airport then you can afford to travel via Central London on the train, flights out of Heathrow are not usually low cost airlines where people are saving every penny they can. Regular business travellers will have costs reimbursed by the company so are likely to be indifferent. Think this post sums up why it shouldnt go ahead, tangytango.proboards.com/post/819036 The driver misheard on the radio and shouldnt have been regulating that long, the bus behind broke down and a new one was sent from the depot to replace it so the driver was told to wait a few minutes at cheam to even the service out.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 27, 2024 19:09:03 GMT
They cant really determine the amount of people who get off in one area or how many people travel between two specific points on the route. It costs just under £10 to travel via london each way in the peaks, it will just force the hand of multiple people who either commute from end to end on the route or use the route to get to the airport from croydon to leave the country to just use their car or get an uber/taxi instead. Coming back to another one of your points prior, how "has [it] become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore" when only 10 out of the last 2386 journeys have been curtailed with all 10 being at hatton cross providing minimal inconvenience. Thats less than 0.5% There have been multiple reports of buses bunching throughout the route, and wasn't there that report of a bus having to regulate for more than 20 minutes at one point? They very well can determine where people get off and have been doing so for years. If Oyster card number ABC taps on at Croydon in the morning, then taps on at Hatton Cross in the evening again you can probably decipher where the person had got off in the morning. Any regular commuters will have such travel patterns and TfL do have the algorithms to work all of this out. It's exactly why when a change involving a route you frequently use results in you being emailed about it. You will know where the people are getting on and getting off, how many people do this 5 days a week and how many people do this a few times a week. TfL site on a gold-mine of data, and this data is probably far more vast than any of us can even think it would be. What's published on the website will only be a fraction of what they have available to them. It's natural to be against any changes that inconvenience you, and changes often will inconvenience someone somewhere. But the fact is that despite there have been multiple controversial changes, what TfL have used as justification for them has often proved right. It was easy to be up in arms when the 25 was cut back, but TfL very well knew people would switch to the Elizabeth Line and that the 8 could take the hit of any other displaced passengers, the 8 has been fine since the 25 cut back and people are now used to the change. When the 48 was withdrawn there was similar outcry that the 55 wouldn't cope, but like TfL said it would it did, and even then justified a PVR decrease on tender which also has been fine and hasn't collapsed the route from sheer number of people using it. People using the SL7 to go on holiday aren't a consideration in its figures from Croydon, a lot of people will already get a cab and these are not frequent commuters of the route who are the likely ones to see any actual inconvenience. Really if you can afford a flight out of Heathrow airport then you can afford to travel via Central London on the train, flights out of Heathrow are not usually low cost airlines where people are saving every penny they can. Regular business travellers will have costs reimbursed by the company so are likely to be indifferent. I have to disagree about the 8 being fine. It can be horrible trying to board a bus at City Thames Link especially if a couple of 25's have terminated between a 8 arriving.
With your point about data that only really works on commuter corridors and not so much on local routes or for those who don't use Oyster cards to tap in and might use different payment cards.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 27, 2024 19:13:02 GMT
There have been multiple reports of buses bunching throughout the route, and wasn't there that report of a bus having to regulate for more than 20 minutes at one point? They very well can determine where people get off and have been doing so for years. If Oyster card number ABC taps on at Croydon in the morning, then taps on at Hatton Cross in the evening again you can probably decipher where the person had got off in the morning. Any regular commuters will have such travel patterns and TfL do have the algorithms to work all of this out. It's exactly why when a change involving a route you frequently use results in you being emailed about it. You will know where the people are getting on and getting off, how many people do this 5 days a week and how many people do this a few times a week. TfL site on a gold-mine of data, and this data is probably far more vast than any of us can even think it would be. What's published on the website will only be a fraction of what they have available to them. It's natural to be against any changes that inconvenience you, and changes often will inconvenience someone somewhere. But the fact is that despite there have been multiple controversial changes, what TfL have used as justification for them has often proved right. It was easy to be up in arms when the 25 was cut back, but TfL very well knew people would switch to the Elizabeth Line and that the 8 could take the hit of any other displaced passengers, the 8 has been fine since the 25 cut back and people are now used to the change. When the 48 was withdrawn there was similar outcry that the 55 wouldn't cope, but like TfL said it would it did, and even then justified a PVR decrease on tender which also has been fine and hasn't collapsed the route from sheer number of people using it. People using the SL7 to go on holiday aren't a consideration in its figures from Croydon, a lot of people will already get a cab and these are not frequent commuters of the route who are the likely ones to see any actual inconvenience. Really if you can afford a flight out of Heathrow airport then you can afford to travel via Central London on the train, flights out of Heathrow are not usually low cost airlines where people are saving every penny they can. Regular business travellers will have costs reimbursed by the company so are likely to be indifferent. Think this post sums up why it shouldnt go ahead, tangytango.proboards.com/post/819036 The driver misheard on the radio and shouldnt have been regulating that long, the bus behind broke down and a new one was sent from the depot to replace it so the driver was told to wait a few minutes at cheam to even the service out. That post is just one opinion as to why it shouldn't go ahead, there's plenty of other posts on this thread as to why it should go ahead. Like I said, TfL do have the facts and figures and no matter what people often think here, they are run by some very experienced transport people, accountants, statisticians and even politicians who wouldn't do something that would sabotage any of their reputations or that would cause mass inconvenience for no reason. Whether we like it or not it was partially all those cuts in Central London that led to TfL producing an operating surplus that has in turn allowed investment towards the move to electric operation. Even putting out a consultation could have ramifications for them if not handled properly but they've certainly decided to consult on it. If you have anything against the change then the consultation will be your opportunity to voice it to TfL. However the caveat is that TfL do match all responses to those who are responding for the sake of responding and who are likely to be regular users of the route coupled together with the data that they already have. If a load of people from Croydon say no they do that that into consideration as those are the people that are inconvenienced, but they will also bare in mind that's only the views from the people on the inconvenienced part of the route and will use that to justify their decision.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 27, 2024 19:18:45 GMT
Go Ahead seem to be making some changes to allocations on the 5 and 115 ahead of the tender renewal. As reported elsewhere a few more EHs have left for SW but also noticed an increase in 17 reg EHs on the 115, yes they are the allocated buses but up until recently the route usually had 5 or so 13 reg early examples making up the allocation most days.
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Post by london23 on Jul 27, 2024 19:27:55 GMT
Do you know what the 17 ReG EH's are going to Stockwell for is to cover the WSD's as they never have a full allocation out.
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Post by thewhetstonebusguy on Jul 27, 2024 22:01:08 GMT
I’ve read online that Go-Ahead have ordered over 100 BYD BD11s, precisely how many were ordered and what routes are they going to?
PS: this is my first message on this forum
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Post by vjaska on Jul 27, 2024 23:40:15 GMT
I’ve read online that Go-Ahead have ordered over 100 BYD BD11s, precisely how many were ordered and what routes are they going to? PS: this is my first message on this forum There has been no information revealed beyond the fact over 100 have been ordered.
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Post by cl54 on Jul 28, 2024 2:16:12 GMT
These people are likely to be shift workers who will make up a very small minority of passengers on the route. The bottom line in most cases will be that the train is an option for them via Central London which takes a similar time. I knew quite a few people from Croydon who did work in the airport and not a single one of them ever considered the bus an option at all, and while this is unlikely to be representative proportionally, it will show that there's a large number of them at least who don't see the bus as a viable option to get to the airport. TfL will have crunched the numbers before proposing something like this, while you can't tell where people get off, you can tell where people get on and a quick match up of Oyster numbers will show exactly who commutes to and from Croydon on the SL7 regularly, and for TfL to know that the hopper fare is likely to be inadequate for a change like this suggests that the number of people who are likely to be affected isn't a huge number. They cant really determine the amount of people who get off in one area or how many people travel between two specific points on the route. It costs just under £10 to travel via london each way in the peaks, it will just force the hand of multiple people who either commute from end to end on the route or use the route to get to the airport from croydon to leave the country to just use their car or get an uber/taxi instead. Coming back to another one of your points prior, how "has [it] become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore" when only 10 out of the last 2386 journeys have been curtailed with all 10 being at hatton cross providing minimal inconvenience. Thats less than 0.5% TfL are not allowed to use Oyster/Contactless data in the way suggested under the Data Protection Act. One of the real problems for the SL7 is the 20mph speed limits along much of the route.
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Post by DE20106 on Jul 28, 2024 5:05:49 GMT
Go Ahead seem to be making some changes to allocations on the 5 and 115 ahead of the tender renewal. As reported elsewhere a few more EHs have left for SW but also noticed an increase in 17 reg EHs on the 115, yes they are the allocated buses but up until recently the route usually had 5 or so 13 reg early examples making up the allocation most days. Not surprising as the 5 converts to LTs though, releases quite a few spare EHs so the 115 has plenty of 17-regs to use. There are now EH139-60 at DS so currently 22 vehicles for its PVR of 18, we could see one or two more 17-regs go over to SW Are they being transferred to SW as general spares? What routes are they allocated to down there?
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lb122
Driver
Posts: 247
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Post by lb122 on Jul 28, 2024 5:06:40 GMT
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 28, 2024 6:17:21 GMT
Looks good but hard to tell without any sort of logo on them. Could be more London demonstrators
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Post by abellion on Jul 28, 2024 7:11:21 GMT
Go Ahead seem to be making some changes to allocations on the 5 and 115 ahead of the tender renewal. As reported elsewhere a few more EHs have left for SW but also noticed an increase in 17 reg EHs on the 115, yes they are the allocated buses but up until recently the route usually had 5 or so 13 reg early examples making up the allocation most days. Not surprising as the 5 converts to LTs though, releases quite a few spare EHs so the 115 has plenty of 17-regs to use. There are now EH139-60 at DS so currently 22 vehicles for its PVR of 18, we could see one or two more 17-regs go over to SW Are they being transferred to SW as general spares? What routes are they allocated to down there? My guess was that the 44 taking tons of WHVs leads to the 155 using far more EHs for the 77/88 + the 337 is missing E161/E162/WVL435 hence the need for more buses. There are more EHs on the 155 than WHVs right now, I have only ever seen this happen very early with the first few buses of the day and it usually doesn’t last, and the 44’s final buses past midnight earlier this morning had not a single WSD with WHVs taking over by the evening every day
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Post by WH241 on Jul 28, 2024 8:50:21 GMT
Go Ahead seem to be making some changes to allocations on the 5 and 115 ahead of the tender renewal. As reported elsewhere a few more EHs have left for SW but also noticed an increase in 17 reg EHs on the 115, yes they are the allocated buses but up until recently the route usually had 5 or so 13 reg early examples making up the allocation most days. Not surprising as the 5 converts to LTs though, releases quite a few spare EHs so the 115 has plenty of 17-regs to use. There are now EH139-60 at DS so currently 22 vehicles for its PVR of 18, we could see one or two more 17-regs go over to SW Are they being transferred to SW as general spares? What routes are they allocated to down there? The EHs are still moving back and forward between DS and RR so wouldn't confirm any allocation at either garage until the 5 fully converts. EH 152 and EH 156 are at RR as they are on the 5 today.
EH 137 and EH 138 have moved to SW in the last week or so.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jul 28, 2024 8:54:47 GMT
Looks good but hard to tell without any sort of logo on them. Could be more London demonstrators It's a very weird spec, lazzerini seating but then looks like the normal vinyl flooring without wood effect, both opposite of what gal typically spec currently
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Post by bustler on Jul 28, 2024 9:04:03 GMT
SW'S WHV'S are due for refurbishment, the 17 EH regs will cover for the 88 and 155. Merton's WHV refurbs have reached completion.
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