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Post by COBO on Jul 27, 2024 1:37:40 GMT
So from routes 22, 88, 172, 188, SL6 we have spare EHs, MHVs and WHVs.
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Post by SouthLondoner468 on Jul 27, 2024 1:46:09 GMT
So from routes 22, 88, 172, 188, SL6 we have spare EHs, MHVs and WHVs. Also some more EHs or MHVs or whatever the 321 is allocated these days, who knows 😂
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 27, 2024 6:16:21 GMT
Only SE192 is on today, presumably there aren’t enough spare SEes because they are on the 485 There should be, the ones on the 485 are from the P12s batch. I wonder whether the full service on route 485 is now SEe? If so, I may well ride one there rather than route 152. I could catch route 28 to Wandsworth and pick up a 485 there! I just hope that route S1 will still have MetroCities at the end of September when I visit the area. I am accepting the risk of missing out on an Me on route 200 now, and would enjoy a WVL on it!
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jul 27, 2024 6:18:50 GMT
SEs are slowly taking over the S1. The last SOE was on a week ago and there have only been 3 Metrocities on there today Further to my post above, I thank you for your update, even though the news is disappointing. I am kicking myself for not having a detour to ride one when in Croydon in January 2023.
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Post by SN17MOA on Jul 27, 2024 7:29:49 GMT
So from routes 22, 88, 172, 188, SL6 we have spare EHs, MHVs and WHVs. Also some more EHs or MHVs or whatever the 321 is allocated these days, who knows 😂 I think most of these spare hybrids will leave London in order to replace older Go-Ahead buses in other parts of the country. I also think those WSDs on the 44 will be deposed, replaced by whatever route will lose WHVs (especially if the 44 is retained). They are so unreliable and jerky. Horrible, horrible vehicles.
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Post by bustler on Jul 27, 2024 9:23:57 GMT
SE'S 176 177 and 178 have transferred from Merton to Croydon and are running on the S1 with more to come now the 200 is almost full DD's. Metrocities are being phased out.. Cue violins
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Post by COBO on Jul 27, 2024 17:19:35 GMT
If the MEs don’t back soon I suppose either ex 22 or 88 or 188 or SL6 could be use to replace WVLs. Or they could be converted to one door and be used on the SL7’s new contract.
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Post by ! ALEED on Jul 27, 2024 17:43:52 GMT
If the MEs don’t back soon I suppose either ex 22 or 88 or 188 or SL6 could be use to replace WVLs. Or they could be converted to one door and be used on the SL7’s new contract. Pretty sure the SL7 will go electric if the proposal of the SL7 being cut back to Sutton takes place, though if the proposals don't go ahead then perhaps this could happen.
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eal1ngvolvo483
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Posts: 298
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Post by eal1ngvolvo483 on Jul 27, 2024 17:50:23 GMT
If the MEs don’t back soon I suppose either ex 22 or 88 or 188 or SL6 could be use to replace WVLs. Or they could be converted to one door and be used on the SL7’s new contract. Pretty sure the SL7 will go electric if the proposal of the SL7 being cut back to Sutton takes place, though if the proposals don't go ahead then perhaps this could happen. There’s no point of cutting SL7 unless it’s for EVs. Tbh the route would still be long and Sutton is a bit of a random place to terminate the SL7 unlike Croydon. Plus realistically who really wants a route from Sutton to Bromley, that just sounds random.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 27, 2024 18:02:18 GMT
Pretty sure the SL7 will go electric if the proposal of the SL7 being cut back to Sutton takes place, though if the proposals don't go ahead then perhaps this could happen. There’s no point of cutting SL7 unless it’s for EVs. Tbh the route would still be long and Sutton is a bit of a random place to terminate the SL7 unlike Croydon. Plus realistically who really wants a route from Sutton to Bromley, that just sounds random. The intention won't be for e2e ridership, so Sutton to Bromley as a route won't be the issue to most people. The SL7 since becoming every 15 minutes has shown to have become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore. Nobody will routinely be using the SL7 e2e from Croydon, and if any do it forms a very small minority of its users so a cut back would be the most sensible option. The SL5 has shown to be a reliable and so far has the lowest usage of all the full time Superloop routes so should be able to take the hit quite comfortably.
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Post by PGAT on Jul 27, 2024 18:08:34 GMT
Cutting the SL7 doesn't "allow" it to use EVs, with current EVs a higher PVR would be needed for charging logistics but this would be remedied with more modern and higher range EVs on the market
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Post by lj61nwc on Jul 27, 2024 18:24:30 GMT
There’s no point of cutting SL7 unless it’s for EVs. Tbh the route would still be long and Sutton is a bit of a random place to terminate the SL7 unlike Croydon. Plus realistically who really wants a route from Sutton to Bromley, that just sounds random. The intention won't be for e2e ridership, so Sutton to Bromley as a route won't be the issue to most people. The SL7 since becoming every 15 minutes has shown to have become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore. Nobody will routinely be using the SL7 e2e from Croydon, and if any do it forms a very small minority of its users so a cut back would be the most sensible option. The SL5 has shown to be a reliable and so far has the lowest usage of all the full time Superloop routes so should be able to take the hit quite comfortably. It is reliable unless theres traffic along the route, which the proposed SL7 would still encounter anyways, only problem is that it isnt a headway based route rather the buses have to stick to timetabled times meaning buses can end up waiting at bus stops for at least 5-10 minutes in cases as timetable has been too padded to account for traffic during peaks. I think you do underestimate the amount of workers who use SL7 from Croydon to Hatton X (for onward connections directly to their heathrow workplace)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 27, 2024 18:32:10 GMT
The intention won't be for e2e ridership, so Sutton to Bromley as a route won't be the issue to most people. The SL7 since becoming every 15 minutes has shown to have become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore. Nobody will routinely be using the SL7 e2e from Croydon, and if any do it forms a very small minority of its users so a cut back would be the most sensible option. The SL5 has shown to be a reliable and so far has the lowest usage of all the full time Superloop routes so should be able to take the hit quite comfortably. It is reliable unless theres traffic along the route, which the proposed SL7 would still encounter anyways, only problem is that it isnt a headway based route rather the buses have to stick to timetabled times meaning buses can end up waiting at bus stops for at least 5-10 minutes in cases as timetable has been too padded to account for traffic during peaks. I think you do underestimate the amount of workers who use SL7 from Croydon to Hatton X (for onward connections directly to their heathrow workplace) These people are likely to be shift workers who will make up a very small minority of passengers on the route. The bottom line in most cases will be that the train is an option for them via Central London which takes a similar time. I knew quite a few people from Croydon who did work in the airport and not a single one of them ever considered the bus an option at all, and while this is unlikely to be representative proportionally, it will show that there's a large number of them at least who don't see the bus as a viable option to get to the airport. TfL will have crunched the numbers before proposing something like this, while you can't tell where people get off, you can tell where people get on and a quick match up of Oyster numbers will show exactly who commutes to and from Croydon on the SL7 regularly, and for TfL to know that the hopper fare is likely to be inadequate for a change like this suggests that the number of people who are likely to be affected isn't a huge number.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jul 27, 2024 18:37:22 GMT
It is reliable unless theres traffic along the route, which the proposed SL7 would still encounter anyways, only problem is that it isnt a headway based route rather the buses have to stick to timetabled times meaning buses can end up waiting at bus stops for at least 5-10 minutes in cases as timetable has been too padded to account for traffic during peaks. I think you do underestimate the amount of workers who use SL7 from Croydon to Hatton X (for onward connections directly to their heathrow workplace) These people are likely to be shift workers who will make up a very small minority of passengers on the route. The bottom line in most cases will be that the train is an option for them via Central London which takes a similar time. I knew quite a few people from Croydon who did work in the airport and not a single one of them ever considered the bus an option at all, and while this is unlikely to be representative proportionally, it will show that there's a large number of them at least who don't see the bus as a viable option to get to the airport. TfL will have crunched the numbers before proposing something like this, while you can't tell where people get off, you can tell where people get on and a quick match up of Oyster numbers will show exactly who commutes to and from Croydon on the SL7 regularly, and for TfL to know that the hopper fare is likely to be inadequate for a change like this suggests that the number of people who are likely to be affected isn't a huge number. They cant really determine the amount of people who get off in one area or how many people travel between two specific points on the route. It costs just under £10 to travel via london each way in the peaks, it will just force the hand of multiple people who either commute from end to end on the route or use the route to get to the airport from croydon to leave the country to just use their car or get an uber/taxi instead. Coming back to another one of your points prior, how "has [it] become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore" when only 10 out of the last 2386 journeys have been curtailed with all 10 being at hatton cross providing minimal inconvenience. Thats less than 0.5%
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 27, 2024 18:52:45 GMT
These people are likely to be shift workers who will make up a very small minority of passengers on the route. The bottom line in most cases will be that the train is an option for them via Central London which takes a similar time. I knew quite a few people from Croydon who did work in the airport and not a single one of them ever considered the bus an option at all, and while this is unlikely to be representative proportionally, it will show that there's a large number of them at least who don't see the bus as a viable option to get to the airport. TfL will have crunched the numbers before proposing something like this, while you can't tell where people get off, you can tell where people get on and a quick match up of Oyster numbers will show exactly who commutes to and from Croydon on the SL7 regularly, and for TfL to know that the hopper fare is likely to be inadequate for a change like this suggests that the number of people who are likely to be affected isn't a huge number. They cant really determine the amount of people who get off in one area or how many people travel between two specific points on the route. It costs just under £10 to travel via london each way in the peaks, it will just force the hand of multiple people who either commute from end to end on the route or use the route to get to the airport from croydon to leave the country to just use their car or get an uber/taxi instead. Coming back to another one of your points prior, how "has [it] become a nightmare to operate and doesn't seem to be reliable in the slightest anymore" when only 10 out of the last 2386 journeys have been curtailed with all 10 being at hatton cross providing minimal inconvenience. Thats less than 0.5% There have been multiple reports of buses bunching throughout the route, and wasn't there that report of a bus having to regulate for more than 20 minutes at one point? They very well can determine where people get off and have been doing so for years. If Oyster card number ABC taps on at Croydon in the morning, then taps on at Hatton Cross in the evening again you can probably decipher where the person had got off in the morning. Any regular commuters will have such travel patterns and TfL do have the algorithms to work all of this out. It's exactly why when a change involving a route you frequently use results in you being emailed about it. You will know where the people are getting on and getting off, how many people do this 5 days a week and how many people do this a few times a week. TfL site on a gold-mine of data, and this data is probably far more vast than any of us can even think it would be. What's published on the website will only be a fraction of what they have available to them. It's natural to be against any changes that inconvenience you, and changes often will inconvenience someone somewhere. But the fact is that despite there have been multiple controversial changes, what TfL have used as justification for them has often proved right. It was easy to be up in arms when the 25 was cut back, but TfL very well knew people would switch to the Elizabeth Line and that the 8 could take the hit of any other displaced passengers, the 8 has been fine since the 25 cut back and people are now used to the change. When the 48 was withdrawn there was similar outcry that the 55 wouldn't cope, but like TfL said it would it did, and even then justified a PVR decrease on tender which also has been fine and hasn't collapsed the route from sheer number of people using it. People using the SL7 to go on holiday aren't a consideration in its figures from Croydon, a lot of people will already get a cab and these are not frequent commuters of the route who are the likely ones to see any actual inconvenience. Really if you can afford a flight out of Heathrow airport then you can afford to travel via Central London on the train, flights out of Heathrow are not usually low cost airlines where people are saving every penny they can. Regular business travellers will have costs reimbursed by the company so are likely to be indifferent.
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