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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 14, 2024 16:38:46 GMT
Would be interested in seeing the figures. The SL2 seems to be doing well north of Ilford but ever SL2 I see at Barking in the rush hour is carrying air fresher than the Lake District. I think that was inevitable though. The North Woolwich area is pretty Baron with not much there, so its lack of usage at the southern end of the SL2 is unsurprising. I think it only goes down there for the stand space tbh and so TfL can call it a proper ‘loop’ separated only by the river It still doesn't really form a loop - sending the SL2 to North Woolwich might have made more sense if there was another SL route directly across the river at Woolwich (for links further south). It does seem a poor use of resources to have a Superloop route at North Woolwich, particularly as the SL2 is far busier at the Walthamstow end. Should have just terminated the SL2 at Barking, or perhaps extending to Barking Riverside instead if there is the demand. It's been suggested before to introduce a passenger ferry from Barking Riverside Pier across to Thamesmead - so if this were to take place you would directly link the SL2 to the SL3 to properly complete the loop. And other benefits like connecting between the other bus routes at both sides of the river, and giving passengers in Thamesmead access to the Overground from Barking Riverside. I think a link from North Woolwich to Barking/Ilford clearly is useful, but an all-stops route might have more success, as this would also connect to the retail parks on the way. It seems the SL2's links are needed, but not necessarily the extra capacity south of Barking, so might be better to reroute some other routes instead - perhaps by diverting the 366 at Gallions Reach to terminate at North Woolwich Ferry, maintaining the SL2's links to Barking and Ilford. For links to/from Beckton, I think it would be more useful to have a DD route going more directly via East Ham. Could perhaps extend the 169 to Beckton, or reroute the 474 to Barking (no longer serving Manor Park) - the latter would also link City Airport to Barking as has been suggested (without adding an additional route to the airport). Also if the Beckton to East Beckton link is needed, the 262 could extend back there.
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 14, 2024 17:14:47 GMT
I think that was inevitable though. The North Woolwich area is pretty Baron with not much there, so its lack of usage at the southern end of the SL2 is unsurprising. I think it only goes down there for the stand space tbh and so TfL can call it a proper ‘loop’ separated only by the river It still doesn't really form a loop - sending the SL2 to North Woolwich might have made more sense if there was another SL route directly across the river at Woolwich (for links further south). It does seem a poor use of resources to have a Superloop route at North Woolwich, particularly as the SL2 is far busier at the Walthamstow end. Should have just terminated the SL2 at Barking, or perhaps extending to Barking Riverside instead if there is the demand. It's been suggested before to introduce a passenger ferry from Barking Riverside Pier across to Thamesmead - so if this were to take place you would directly link the SL2 to the SL3 to properly complete the loop. And other benefits like connecting between the other bus routes at both sides of the river, and giving passengers in Thamesmead access to the Overground from Barking Riverside. I think a link from North Woolwich to Barking/Ilford clearly is useful, but an all-stops route might have more success, as this would also connect to the retail parks on the way. It seems the SL2's links are needed, but not necessarily the extra capacity south of Barking, so might be better to reroute some other routes instead - perhaps by diverting the 366 at Gallions Reach to terminate at North Woolwich Ferry, maintaining the SL2's links to Barking and Ilford. For links to/from Beckton, I think it would be more useful to have a DD route going more directly via East Ham. Could perhaps extend the 169 to Beckton, or reroute the 474 to Barking (no longer serving Manor Park) - the latter would also link City Airport to Barking as has been suggested (without adding an additional route to the airport). Also if the Beckton to East Beckton link is needed, the 262 could extend back there. I'm still puzzled by the argument that the Superloop has to form a complete circle. Although Superloop stage two does proppse a Thamesmead-Woolwich route. One thing I have noticed with the proposed second phase is that it includes more radial elements than the first phase - indeed the proposed Thamesmead-Woolwich, Lewisham-Elephant and Hounslow-Hammersmith routes are entirely radial, the South Havering-Leytonstone route is largely so, and the Barnet-Stratford route is radial from Chingford.
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Post by WH241 on Sept 14, 2024 17:18:58 GMT
I think that was inevitable though. The North Woolwich area is pretty Baron with not much there, so its lack of usage at the southern end of the SL2 is unsurprising. I think it only goes down there for the stand space tbh and so TfL can call it a proper ‘loop’ separated only by the river It still doesn't really form a loop - sending the SL2 to North Woolwich might have made more sense if there was another SL route directly across the river at Woolwich (for links further south). It does seem a poor use of resources to have a Superloop route at North Woolwich, particularly as the SL2 is far busier at the Walthamstow end. Should have just terminated the SL2 at Barking, or perhaps extending to Barking Riverside instead if there is the demand. It's been suggested before to introduce a passenger ferry from Barking Riverside Pier across to Thamesmead - so if this were to take place you would directly link the SL2 to the SL3 to properly complete the loop. And other benefits like connecting between the other bus routes at both sides of the river, and giving passengers in Thamesmead access to the Overground from Barking Riverside. I think a link from North Woolwich to Barking/Ilford clearly is useful, but an all-stops route might have more success, as this would also connect to the retail parks on the way. It seems the SL2's links are needed, but not necessarily the extra capacity south of Barking, so might be better to reroute some other routes instead - perhaps by diverting the 366 at Gallions Reach to terminate at North Woolwich Ferry, maintaining the SL2's links to Barking and Ilford. For links to/from Beckton, I think it would be more useful to have a DD route going more directly via East Ham. Could perhaps extend the 169 to Beckton, or reroute the 474 to Barking (no longer serving Manor Park) - the latter would also link City Airport to Barking as has been suggested (without adding an additional route to the airport). Also if the Beckton to East Beckton link is needed, the 262 could extend back there. So we are just going to ignore the growing group of passengers that have been building from day one at North Woolwich. Lots of routes have less busier terminals at one end.
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Post by theferret124 on Sept 14, 2024 17:22:56 GMT
Superloops ... Horrible livery, eyesores. thank you let us know
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Post by wirewiper on Sept 14, 2024 17:45:15 GMT
Superloops ... Horrible livery, eyesores. thank you let us know I rather like it - it has a nice 'retro' feel of mid-1970s National Bus Company dual-purpose vehicle about it.
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Post by bustler on Sept 14, 2024 19:02:44 GMT
Nah... Looks like it was designed by crayons
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 14, 2024 19:47:25 GMT
I think that was inevitable though. The North Woolwich area is pretty Baron with not much there, so its lack of usage at the southern end of the SL2 is unsurprising. I think it only goes down there for the stand space tbh and so TfL can call it a proper ‘loop’ separated only by the river It still doesn't really form a loop - sending the SL2 to North Woolwich might have made more sense if there was another SL route directly across the river at Woolwich (for links further south). It does seem a poor use of resources to have a Superloop route at North Woolwich, particularly as the SL2 is far busier at the Walthamstow end. Should have just terminated the SL2 at Barking, or perhaps extending to Barking Riverside instead if there is the demand. It's been suggested before to introduce a passenger ferry from Barking Riverside Pier across to Thamesmead - so if this were to take place you would directly link the SL2 to the SL3 to properly complete the loop. And other benefits like connecting between the other bus routes at both sides of the river, and giving passengers in Thamesmead access to the Overground from Barking Riverside. I think a link from North Woolwich to Barking/Ilford clearly is useful, but an all-stops route might have more success, as this would also connect to the retail parks on the way. It seems the SL2's links are needed, but not necessarily the extra capacity south of Barking, so might be better to reroute some other routes instead - perhaps by diverting the 366 at Gallions Reach to terminate at North Woolwich Ferry, maintaining the SL2's links to Barking and Ilford. For links to/from Beckton, I think it would be more useful to have a DD route going more directly via East Ham. Could perhaps extend the 169 to Beckton, or reroute the 474 to Barking (no longer serving Manor Park) - the latter would also link City Airport to Barking as has been suggested (without adding an additional route to the airport). Also if the Beckton to East Beckton link is needed, the 262 could extend back there. I'm not sure where the 474 would stand in Barking without making things even more complicated, and taking the 474 away would mean losing a pretty well used link from North Woolwich up to East Ham. The 262 doesn't really need to be extended back up to East Beckton Sainsbury's, it carried very few passengers past Gallions Reach.
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Post by cl54 on Sept 14, 2024 19:57:36 GMT
It still doesn't really form a loop - sending the SL2 to North Woolwich might have made more sense if there was another SL route directly across the river at Woolwich (for links further south). It does seem a poor use of resources to have a Superloop route at North Woolwich, particularly as the SL2 is far busier at the Walthamstow end. Should have just terminated the SL2 at Barking, or perhaps extending to Barking Riverside instead if there is the demand. It's been suggested before to introduce a passenger ferry from Barking Riverside Pier across to Thamesmead - so if this were to take place you would directly link the SL2 to the SL3 to properly complete the loop. And other benefits like connecting between the other bus routes at both sides of the river, and giving passengers in Thamesmead access to the Overground from Barking Riverside. I think a link from North Woolwich to Barking/Ilford clearly is useful, but an all-stops route might have more success, as this would also connect to the retail parks on the way. It seems the SL2's links are needed, but not necessarily the extra capacity south of Barking, so might be better to reroute some other routes instead - perhaps by diverting the 366 at Gallions Reach to terminate at North Woolwich Ferry, maintaining the SL2's links to Barking and Ilford. For links to/from Beckton, I think it would be more useful to have a DD route going more directly via East Ham. Could perhaps extend the 169 to Beckton, or reroute the 474 to Barking (no longer serving Manor Park) - the latter would also link City Airport to Barking as has been suggested (without adding an additional route to the airport). Also if the Beckton to East Beckton link is needed, the 262 could extend back there. So we are just going to ignore the growing group of passengers that have been building from day one at North Woolwich. Lots of routes have less busier terminals at one end. Aided by both Woolwich ferries running now.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 14, 2024 21:15:27 GMT
Nah... Looks like it was designed by crayons Is it the best? Not in my opinion but at least it's a step up from 100% dull red - anything is better than that.
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Post by londonbuses on Sept 14, 2024 23:47:21 GMT
I think that was inevitable though. The North Woolwich area is pretty Baron with not much there, so its lack of usage at the southern end of the SL2 is unsurprising. I think it only goes down there for the stand space tbh and so TfL can call it a proper ‘loop’ separated only by the river I do think sending it that little bit further to LCY would help ever so slightly with its pax numbers, especially as it employs a lot of people from the Barking area too. Not much traffic and minimal run time, especially for an express route. The other alternative might be to actually cull it at Ilford and extend it further north, reducing the time it spends on the A406 as well as then potentially providing new links. Heading south of Ilford the EL1 is more likely to turn up first and isn't much slower, if it is slower at all, and the 366 towards Gallions Reach has the benefit of using Jenkins Lane to escape all the traffic and I've frequently been beaten to Gallions Reach by a 366 from Barking too. I agree, an extension to LCY would be excellent. Maybe I'm pushing it a bit too far, but I'd be tempted to send it onwards to Custom House - this would have the added benefit of providing a direct link between the SL2 and SL3, using the Elizabeth Line between Custom House and Abbey Wood.
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Post by bustler on Sept 15, 2024 8:53:22 GMT
A pop at the Iconic Red London bus, how dare thee Sir, I almost choked on my cornflakes. Nah not having apologists for the superloop design. It looks like a bus they'd hire at the funfair to ferry the clowns to the next venue.
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Post by WH241 on Sept 15, 2024 9:01:05 GMT
I do think sending it that little bit further to LCY would help ever so slightly with its pax numbers, especially as it employs a lot of people from the Barking area too. Not much traffic and minimal run time, especially for an express route. The other alternative might be to actually cull it at Ilford and extend it further north, reducing the time it spends on the A406 as well as then potentially providing new links. Heading south of Ilford the EL1 is more likely to turn up first and isn't much slower, if it is slower at all, and the 366 towards Gallions Reach has the benefit of using Jenkins Lane to escape all the traffic and I've frequently been beaten to Gallions Reach by a 366 from Barking too. I agree, an extension to LCY would be excellent. Maybe I'm pushing it a bit too far, but I'd be tempted to send it onwards to Custom House - this would have the added benefit of providing a direct link between the SL2 and SL3, using the Elizabeth Line between Custom House and Abbey Wood. There is no suitable place to turn the SL2 at Custom House. Also being local I can assure you the area is really over bussed especially along Victoria Dock Road! Of all the buses that are busy is the 147 which was the established route before the recent changes. The 304 picks up a decent amount of passengers as that's another alternative to the 147 via different route to East Ham. I would be against yet another route from the Beckton area.
As for the other comment about the SL2 to the airport as I have said before there is already 2 routes from North Woolwich is there a need for a third? have passengers lost the ability to change buses? was this not the whole point of the hopper fare? I find the comment laughable saying the travel time is minimal when all it takes is a slight hiccup on the ferry for the area to come to a standstill. I would say it would add at least 10 minutes to the running time in the peaks for an extension to the airport.
I await my reply being picked to bits and my local knowledge being totally disregarded or twisted.
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Post by mkay315 on Sept 15, 2024 9:08:52 GMT
So two things I would to ask is this
The first is how long will those WVNs remain on the 473 as I do like them buses thrashing it through Silvertown and Plaistow.
The second one is where the HECK are those buses for the 358. This goalpost moving has become too much now. I do hope it doesn't become too old in technology terms for when it enters service.
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Post by PGAT on Sept 15, 2024 9:13:10 GMT
So two things I would to ask is this The first is how long will those WVNs remain on the 473 as I do like them buses thrashing it through Silvertown and Plaistow. The second one is where the HECK are those buses for the 358. This goalpost moving has become too much now. I do hope it doesn't become too old in technology terms for when it enters service. My bet is late October
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Post by cl54 on Sept 15, 2024 9:15:54 GMT
I agree, an extension to LCY would be excellent. Maybe I'm pushing it a bit too far, but I'd be tempted to send it onwards to Custom House - this would have the added benefit of providing a direct link between the SL2 and SL3, using the Elizabeth Line between Custom House and Abbey Wood. There is no suitable place to turn the SL2 at Custom House. Also being local I can assure you the area is really over bussed especially along Victoria Dock Road! Of all the buses that are busy is the 147 which was the established route before the recent changes. The 304 picks up a decent amount of passengers as that's another alternative to the 147 via different route to East Ham. I would be against yet another route from the Beckton area.
As for the other comment about the SL2 to the airport as I have said before there is already 2 routes from North Woolwich is there a need for a third? have passengers lost the ability to change buses? was this not the whole point of the hopper fare? I find the comment laughable saying the travel time is minimal when all it takes is a slight hiccup on the ferry for the area to come to a standstill. I would say it would add at least 10 minutes to the running time in the peaks for an extension to the airport.
I await my reply being picked to bits and my local knowledge being totally disregarded or twisted.
I agree with your points. The foot tunnel does provide an alternative to the ferry. Nobody would travel to Custom House to take (and pay for) the Elizabeth line to Abbey Wood. I doubt if there is any real demand for a connection amongst regular passengers. The Thames has always been a natural barrier for bus travel. (BTW I'm another local who regularly travels in the area.)
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