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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 8:16:44 GMT
I agree, Having been a driver on the 286 for some years I have witnessed the advantage of dual doors first hand in 2007 the route was converted from 10.7m single door Pointer Darts to 10.8m dual door Enviro 200's and the change to loading times was massive. Prevously when serving busy stops for instance Eltham high street you'd spend the 1st minute with waiting passengers having to stand on the kerb and wait while the bus unloaded sometimes even longer if several push chairs or trolly weilding grannys where invloved, and only then after that had finished could the loading begin. Now however the loading and un loading happens at the same time so you can get away from the stop in half the time. I totally agree with Madstuntman, you do notice a hell of a difference in loading times at stops between single and dual door buses. It was the same at BX until a couple of years ago when we had the DMS's and DML's which were single door as well as the LDP's, which all (except a few P/R reg ones) were dual door. You would certainly notice the difference on a busy route like the 244, if you had a DML/S, you were garunteed to run late, if you had a DD LDP you'd be holding back cause you would no doubt be well early! When i used to drive 244's and 469's and had a DML/S i always tried in vain to get subbed for a dual door LDP, or sometimes i just bit the bullet and ran late!! ;D Double doors on small single deckers only reduce the capacity of the bus. The difference they make to loading times is almost non existant They may be a need for then in London on a few of the larger sd's but that is usually because the route either needs a full size SD or a DD but the roads etc do not permit there use.
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Post by snowman on Aug 8, 2010 10:17:25 GMT
Maybe to ease the aid on loading/offloading, especially in a busy city such as london it speeds up journey times. midi buses go upto 11.4m then maxi buses are 11.5 - 11.9m full size = 12m+ so do you really thing buses that are 9.5 - 11.4m would be better off with single doors in london? can you imagine how long buses on say a busy single deck route like the 214/74 would have to spend at stops in order for people to offload before loading if they were 10.2m single doored darts? I agree, Having been a driver on the 286 for some years I have witnessed the advantage of dual doors first hand in 2007 the route was converted from 10.7m single door Pointer Darts to 10.8m dual door Enviro 200's and the change to loading times was massive. Prevously when serving busy stops for instance Eltham high street you'd spend the 1st minute with waiting passengers having to stand on the kerb and wait while the bus unloaded sometimes even longer if several push chairs or trolly weilding grannys where invloved, and only then after that had finished could the loading begin. Now however the loading and un loading happens at the same time so you can get away from the stop in half the time. This debate has happened before, it depends on the route. Two doors are useful where many board and alight at same stop. On some routes both doors are rarely opened together at many stops, so effectively you only need one door. There is a theory that routes where everyone boards in same place (station, town centre etc) then gradually unloads in residential distrcicts, are slower with twin doors (the basis being drivers can see the front doors better so close them a few seconds earlier, as it is quicker to check they are clear). It is difficult to perceive a dozen 5 second delays, but easy to notice one minute delay, even though total delay is the same Always remember that London doesn't have parallel loading / alighting (except bendys and ex Red Arrow routes), and using a one door on, one door off is only half a solution as usually one door is clear before other one is ready to be closed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2010 16:12:22 GMT
I agree, Having been a driver on the 286 for some years I have witnessed the advantage of dual doors first hand in 2007 the route was converted from 10.7m single door Pointer Darts to 10.8m dual door Enviro 200's and the change to loading times was massive. Prevously when serving busy stops for instance Eltham high street you'd spend the 1st minute with waiting passengers having to stand on the kerb and wait while the bus unloaded sometimes even longer if several push chairs or trolly weilding grannys where invloved, and only then after that had finished could the loading begin. Now however the loading and un loading happens at the same time so you can get away from the stop in half the time. This debate has happened before, it depends on the route. Two doors are useful where many board and alight at same stop. On some routes both doors are rarely opened together at many stops, so effectively you only need one door. There is a theory that routes where everyone boards in same place (station, town centre etc) then gradually unloads in residential distrcicts, are slower with twin doors (the basis being drivers can see the front doors better so close them a few seconds earlier, as it is quicker to check they are clear). It is difficult to perceive a dozen 5 second delays, but easy to notice one minute delay, even though total delay is the same Always remember that London doesn't have parallel loading / alighting (except bendys and ex Red Arrow routes), and using a one door on, one door off is only half a solution as usually one door is clear before other one is ready to be closed. Single doors seem to work perfectly well outside of London and outside a few other major cities is almost universal. Remembers as well having two sets of doors in itself builds in a delay. In central London I can see a case a case for them on large single deckers but not elsewhere. They add to the cost asnd probably slow the journey down on surburban routes it also means they do not sell well as ouside of London they do not want the extra set of doors and most companies avoid them
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Post by snowman on Aug 11, 2010 11:39:17 GMT
The Optare Versa hybrid has now been certified as meeting the Green bus fund requirements The picture clearly shows a TfL liveried one (complete with roundel on front), but I wasn't aware of any Versa hybrids due for London www.route-one.net/e-books/currentIssue/index.html#/12/could it be one of Quality Lines new buses with the power unit exchanged as Optare have designed the bus to allow diesel and hybrid equipment to be exchangeable
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2010 13:10:57 GMT
The Optare Versa hybrid has now been certified as meeting the Green bus fund requirements The picture clearly shows a TfL liveried one (complete with roundel on front), but I wasn't aware of any Versa hybrids due for London www.route-one.net/e-books/currentIssue/index.html#/12/could it be one of Quality Lines new buses with the power unit exchanged as Optare have designed the bus to allow diesel and hybrid equipment to be exchangeable What makes you so sure that that is a Hybrid in the photo and not just an old shot of a TfL spec Versa. Would nto be the ifrst time an old photo had been used
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Post by snowman on Aug 12, 2010 5:43:02 GMT
The Optare Versa hybrid has now been certified as meeting the Green bus fund requirements The picture clearly shows a TfL liveried one (complete with roundel on front), but I wasn't aware of any Versa hybrids due for London www.route-one.net/e-books/currentIssue/index.html#/12/What makes you so sure that that is a Hybrid in the photo and not just an old shot of a TfL spec Versa. Would nto be the ifrst time an old photo had been used Hadn't thought they might use an old photo, that might not be a hybrid, same picture is used on Optare website captioned hybrid on test www.optare.com/images/hi_res/Hybrid%20test%20Versa.jpgIt also has a grey dashboard and yellow grab poles can't be a Selkent bus as they have blue dashboards and orange poles Transdev have light blue dashboards and poles the NSL ones did have grey dashboards, (but orange poles) jimmyshengukbuses2.fotopic.net/p57632963.htmlI suspect it was the one at Birmingham show in 2008, which was then used as a demonstrator, development one
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2010 5:57:07 GMT
What makes you so sure that that is a Hybrid in the photo and not just an old shot of a TfL spec Versa. Would nto be the ifrst time an old photo had been used Hadn't thought they might use a 2 year old photo, that might not be a hybrid, same picture is used on Optare website captioned hybrid on test www.optare.com/images/hi_res/Hybrid%20test%20Versa.jpgOK - so it has fairly vivid yellow hand rails, and seemingly grey interior panels. There are currently 3 batches of Versa's in London. Which does this rule out. Anyone know what Quality Lines interior scheme is normally like. Not ELBG batch interior panels wrong colour. Not Quality line ... looking at pics .. Optare signs are in place where TfL sticker is located, mirror wrong colour shape. Original Transdevs batch ... poles wrong colour. NCP - batch possible. But again ... Optare signs and TfL sticker wrong Can anyone make out a centre door in the `hybrid pic`? Could just be a mock up due to tests being at the TfL testing facility. Do not think it is an old pic of any existing batches nor one due for QL. My money is it is just prototype, which they may hope to get into London. Maybe more hope than expectation at mo
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Post by snowman on Aug 12, 2010 13:04:26 GMT
OK - so it has fairly vivid yellow hand rails, and seemingly grey interior panels. There are currently 3 batches of Versa's in London. Which does this rule out. Anyone know what Quality Lines interior scheme is normally like. Can anyone make out a centre door in the `hybrid pic`? Could just be a mock up due to tests being at the TfL testing facility. Do not think it is an old pic of any existing batches nor one due for QL. My money is it is just prototype, which they may hope to get into London. Maybe more hope than expectation at mo This is Quality line, grey dashboard, yellow handrails, red seats alistair268.fotopic.net/c1876633.htmlI now think it is this prototype, which has been reused for development londonbuspics.fotopic.net/p54746596.html
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