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Post by TB123 on Jan 20, 2022 15:35:48 GMT
I know WH is the garage that can hold the most buses but which one does actually hold the most at the moment. Guessing it's RR in first place but what would come second and third? Courtesy of londonbusroutes.net the top 10 in terms of total PVR are as follows (obviously this is not the same as total number of vehicles allocated, but it gives you a good idea):
1. RR 222
2. Q 205 3. NX 201 4. LI 193 5. QB 184 6= HT 183 = SW 183 8. W 163 9. AL 162 10. AR 161
Surprising not to see NP in there (currently on 141) but they'll be back up there soon with their new gains.
Looking through some old posts and found this, thought it interesting to do a comparison 2 years later 1 - Q, 190 2 - NX, 189, 3 - HT, 187 4 - W, 186 5 - PD, 171 6 - RR, 170 7 - SW, 166 8 - NP, 164 9 - AL, 153 10 - MB, 149 LI, QB, AR noticeably absent. I expect this will have changed even more in the next year or two.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 21, 2022 9:56:45 GMT
This is an awful trail of decline. /photo/1 Is this the same Vincent Stops that used to work for London Travelwatch? He of course is right, but I will go further. - No point complaining about increased car usage when you keep axing / reducing bus services. Completely hypocritical.
- No point in complaining about fewer bus passengers when the consequence of so much of the rest of your transport policy results in fewer bus passengers
- Given Covid, the advice initially not to use public transport, working from home, what is the plan to get passengers back onto the bus and tube? Interesting that car usage is back up, walking and cycling up, but bus and tube down, down down. Answers on a postcard from anyone who thinks reduced bus services will encourage people back onto buses.
- I won't go on about continually 'regulating the service' which while helping even out waiting times also puts passengers off using the service as this has been spoken about many times on this forum. What I will say is that if there is less traffic and buses are held up artificially to keep to the timetable and so regulate the service, then buses can't take advantage of those lower traffic levels and so speed up journeys, and no one should be surprised if people then use buses less.
If buses are the most important public transport service bar none, as Cllr Stops says, then policy needs to reflect that because quite frankly current policy seems to have buses as one of the lowest priority public transport services.
It is no genius why the bus and tube services is down. People are NOT going into zone 1. Plus locally people do not want to share space with other people. No matter how much you clean the public transport the risk is higher, same way as being in any shop sharing a space with others. Transmission through breathing is highly likely or getting spores onto clothing etc. If you walk you can keep away form others, cycle same thing, in a car same thing.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 21, 2022 10:03:48 GMT
And as of tomorrow night the N9 will have an extra 25 minutes to get from Aldwych to Heathrow taking the total run time up to 1hr 50 minutes. That will definitely kill off any possibility of the route recovering. Not a chance I’ll be waiting half an hour to sit on a packed bus that’ll spend 25 minutes regulating to get back home from Heaven on a Saturday night (and I say this as someone who uses any opportunity to use the N9). It’s just unbelievable what is happening to TfL services these days under the premiership of Sadiq Khan. I think TfL should only be responsible for Trains, Underground, Buses and Trams in London. Maybe then all the money wasted on these ridiculous non-public transport related schemes can be used to restore a 20 minute frequency to an important night route. Also why the hell do 20mph speed limits apply at night? This is 100% the reason for operators dumping loads of running time on night routes (and day routes). I honestly believe London is on a steady decline to becoming a second rate city which is such a shame and I fully blame Johnson and Khan for initiating this madness. The 20mph on major roads is slow and counter productive frankly. My wife is a learner and she is already moaning about how slow / difficult it is to maintain 20 on bigger roads ( downham way for example is dual carriageway and 20!). Clear example of people framing policies having no clue of ground realities I seriously do not bother with them, I still stick at the 30 as the roads I knew were 30. As for side roads more than likely I am crawling at 20 even if some are still 30. There has been no common sense whatsoever in implementing these 20 limits and it is one of the reasons why I hate some local councils.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 21, 2022 10:09:49 GMT
Is this the same Vincent Stops that used to work for London Travelwatch? He of course is right, but I will go further. - No point complaining about increased car usage when you keep axing / reducing bus services. Completely hypocritical.
- No point in complaining about fewer bus passengers when the consequence of so much of the rest of your transport policy results in fewer bus passengers
- Given Covid, the advice initially not to use public transport, working from home, what is the plan to get passengers back onto the bus and tube? Interesting that car usage is back up, walking and cycling up, but bus and tube down, down down. Answers on a postcard from anyone who thinks reduced bus services will encourage people back onto buses.
- I won't go on about continually 'regulating the service' which while helping even out waiting times also puts passengers off using the service as this has been spoken about many times on this forum. What I will say is that if there is less traffic and buses are held up artificially to keep to the timetable and so regulate the service, then buses can't take advantage of those lower traffic levels and so speed up journeys, and no one should be surprised if people then use buses less.
If buses are the most important public transport service bar none, as Cllr Stops says, then policy needs to reflect that because quite frankly current policy seems to have buses as one of the lowest priority public transport services.
It is no genius why the bus and tube services is down. People are NOT going into zone 1. Plus locally people do not want to share space with other people. No matter how much you clean the public transport the risk is higher, same way as being in any shop sharing a space with others. Transmission through breathing is highly likely or getting spores onto clothing etc. If you walk you can keep away form others, cycle same thing, in a car same thing. Exactly, no safer place than in your own car and the second hand car market has boomed during the pandemic.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 21, 2022 10:12:01 GMT
So what is the mayors responsibilities? TfL ... Shambles Law and Order ... Shambles Housing ... Shambles The Mayor has the ultimate responsibility for these in London ... So if ultimate responsibility for the shambles they are in is not his, then he should not be in the position he is in. If you are saying the mayor is just a puppet controlled by central government, then again, what is the point. The point is that the mayor is being turned into a puppet in an attempt of Central government to take power over an extremely influential place they know they are unlikely to ever get power over. If you can’t get it democratically then you try to get it in an undemocratic way. When a government is in power that works with the mayor the mayor has control. It can be seen with Ken in 2000-2008 (first term Ken was still pretty much Labour in all but name), and Boris in 2010-2016. The issue is the Tories are simply not wanted by Londoners anymore which became extremely clear in the 2015 general election so they have no other way of having power here. The mayor is not being turned into a puppet; he already IS a puppet. Khan knew what was on the table when he came to power, but then you want to dictate the hand that feeds you, what a stupid fool. When took took office, he was an INDEPENDENT, he was at loggerheads with the party because he run against Frank Dobson. People like yourself seems to have forgotten this. Livingstone did not have an easy first term as had words back an forth with Blair & Brown. He was denied the Underground, the government chose to go with their PPP, which failed! I remember on LBC when Livingstone said he would concentrate on making buses in London better, when he could not get his hands on the Underground and he would show the government he could make a success of it. It was near the end of Ken's first term the Labour government started to acknowledge his success and was stupid for not choosing him in the first place. As for the Conservatives not being wanted by London, this has been for years, since the social demographic of those in London have a one tracked mind and been brainwashed into being told Labour is the party of the immigrant etc and all other kinds of bullshit which is not true. No party is your friend, they only want your vote for winning sake, then it is a matter of we would still screw you over whether you like it or not.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 21, 2022 10:17:09 GMT
So you agree Khans main objective is to make the government look bad? I'm no fan of Khan and certain things are entirely down to him for example not raising fares for years etc leading to a funding crisis but can't you see the government are the ones who are making it worst than it needs to be and can only see it getting worst As for 20mph speed limits on major arteries this is just to save money on pot holes etc and encourage people off the transport cars/buses on to foot/cycle so they don't have to fund roadworks as much in my opinion by they I mean both the council's and tfl . But how is that going to encourage anyone onto public transport. It would do the opposite. If I have to sit in my car at 20, but then a bus cannot go above 20, the journey would be way slower. It is 10 steps backwards, simply because why would anyone in their right mind want to just sit around doing sweet FA, when so much things within this country is dictated by time. It is a very time conscious society that every second matters.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 21, 2022 10:22:09 GMT
Bushey Road in the Raynes Park area is just as bad, the dual carriageway section cut from 40 to 20 with the remaining section leading to the A3 Kingston-By-Pass reduced at least to a more sensible 30. Surprisingly Saint Helier Avenue in the Morden/Rose Hill area is still 40...at least for now anyway. Silly speed limits is one of the things that I was glad see back of when I moved to Wiltshire. The most common speed limit signs here are 50 or 40. It is rare to see 20 and if you do probably only for few hundred meters past a primary school, or where road wiggles past some old stone building. Here speed limits seem to be determined by risk, plenty of roads where limit changes 4 or 5 times in a mile as it goes up and down as appropriate. None of the reduce 40 to 20 and keep it at 20 for next 10 miles lark. Apparently Bath tried a lower limit and got rid of it soon after as accident rates rocketed as drivers became careless and frustrated and tried overtaking. In London all the mayor’s PR on lower limits is about serious injuries and deaths, never mentions quantity of accidents as it is known the rate goes up with these low limits, and most don’t even make any statistics as they are unreported. Another things with lower speed limits are that people are likely to text or scroll through apps on their phone and not concentrate on the road as they are going slower. These normally end up in worst situations with plenty of rear enders or people being knocked over and the driver of the car has not even applied the brakes until after they collide.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 21, 2022 10:26:35 GMT
Silly speed limits is one of the things that I was glad see back of when I moved to Wiltshire. The most common speed limit signs here are 50 or 40. It is rare to see 20 and if you do probably only for few hundred meters past a primary school, or where road wiggles past some old stone building. Here speed limits seem to be determined by risk, plenty of roads where limit changes 4 or 5 times in a mile as it goes up and down as appropriate. None of the reduce 40 to 20 and keep it at 20 for next 10 miles lark. Apparently Bath tried a lower limit and got rid of it soon after as accident rates rocketed as drivers became careless and frustrated and tried overtaking. In London all the mayor’s PR on lower limits is about serious injuries and deaths, never mentions quantity of accidents as it is known the rate goes up with these low limits, and most don’t even make any statistics as they are unreported. content.tfl.gov.uk/speed-emissions-and-health.pdf"Key points" (page 4 of the report): "The health benefits of slowing traffic as part of the Healthy Streets Approach will dwarf any dis-benefits. Most of these benefits will come from supporting a shift to walking and cycling. "Congestion can increase local air pollution but it is complex. Even where congestion increases local air pollution, the health impacts are likely to be negligible and outweighed by the health benefits of slowed traffic. "20mph zones do not appear to worsen air quality and they dramatically reduce road danger. They also support a shift to walking and cycling, generate less traffic noise and reduce community severance. "In 20mph zones vehicles move more smoothly with fewer accelerations and decelerations. This driving style produces fewer particulate emissions. "Speed bumps generate small, local increases in emissions, but the health impacts are likely to be negligible. They dramatically reduce road danger and support the Healthy Streets Approach. The air quality impacts of protected cycle lanes have not yet been evaluated, but they are not expected to increase air pollution." That is a load of codswallop and only trying to justify their crap. 20mph zones have cars in first or second burning far more fuel than at 30 it is a KNOWN fact. We have heard of many roads with emissions increasing in London, many of these are the ones that have gone over to 20 limits. In the real world speed humps create far more emissions and it is not proven that it stops people being killed. I have seen roads with them introduced and they has NEVER even been a KSI. They are a total waste of time on many roads imo. If they were that important, we would have seen roads with high pedestrian usage such as Regent St, Oxford St gain them years ago.
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Post by WH241 on Jan 21, 2022 10:33:51 GMT
Is this the same Vincent Stops that used to work for London Travelwatch? He of course is right, but I will go further. - No point complaining about increased car usage when you keep axing / reducing bus services. Completely hypocritical.
- No point in complaining about fewer bus passengers when the consequence of so much of the rest of your transport policy results in fewer bus passengers
- Given Covid, the advice initially not to use public transport, working from home, what is the plan to get passengers back onto the bus and tube? Interesting that car usage is back up, walking and cycling up, but bus and tube down, down down. Answers on a postcard from anyone who thinks reduced bus services will encourage people back onto buses.
- I won't go on about continually 'regulating the service' which while helping even out waiting times also puts passengers off using the service as this has been spoken about many times on this forum. What I will say is that if there is less traffic and buses are held up artificially to keep to the timetable and so regulate the service, then buses can't take advantage of those lower traffic levels and so speed up journeys, and no one should be surprised if people then use buses less.
If buses are the most important public transport service bar none, as Cllr Stops says, then policy needs to reflect that because quite frankly current policy seems to have buses as one of the lowest priority public transport services.
It is no genius why the bus and tube services is down. People are NOT going into zone 1. Plus locally people do not want to share space with other people. No matter how much you clean the public transport the risk is higher, same way as being in any shop sharing a space with others. Transmission through breathing is highly likely or getting spores onto clothing etc. If you walk you can keep away form others, cycle same thing, in a car same thing. I actually disagree with this at least from weekends when I used transport. The tube is very busy heading into Zone one and the same with local buses heading to local shopping centres. I don’t buy the feeling safe in a car as you have to get out at your destination and go about your business. I think a lot of the issues is the resistance to return to the office which is causing problems as they are too comfy working at home. Banks and big corporations are finally starting to push back now and expecting staff to work a minimum 3 days a week at offices with the easing of plan B restrictions.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 21, 2022 11:23:44 GMT
The point is that the mayor is being turned into a puppet in an attempt of Central government to take power over an extremely influential place they know they are unlikely to ever get power over. If you can’t get it democratically then you try to get it in an undemocratic way. When a government is in power that works with the mayor the mayor has control. It can be seen with Ken in 2000-2008 (first term Ken was still pretty much Labour in all but name), and Boris in 2010-2016. The issue is the Tories are simply not wanted by Londoners anymore which became extremely clear in the 2015 general election so they have no other way of having power here. The mayor is not being turned into a puppet; he already IS a puppet. Khan knew what was on the table when he came to power, but then you want to dictate the hand that feeds you, what a stupid fool. When took took office, he was an INDEPENDENT, he was at loggerheads with the party because he run against Frank Dobson. People like yourself seems to have forgotten this. Livingstone did not have an easy first term as had words back an forth with Blair & Brown. He was denied the Underground, the government chose to go with their PPP, which failed! I remember on LBC when Livingstone said he would concentrate on making buses in London better, when he could not get his hands on the Underground and he would show the government he could make a success of it. It was near the end of Ken's first term the Labour government started to acknowledge his success and was stupid for not choosing him in the first place. As for the Conservatives not being wanted by London, this has been for years, since the social demographic of those in London have a one tracked mind and been brainwashed into being told Labour is the party of the immigrant etc and all other kinds of bullshit which is not true. No party is your friend, they only want your vote for winning sake, then it is a matter of we would still screw you over whether you like it or not. Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones
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Post by ronnie on Jan 21, 2022 11:38:49 GMT
The mayor is not being turned into a puppet; he already IS a puppet. Khan knew what was on the table when he came to power, but then you want to dictate the hand that feeds you, what a stupid fool. When took took office, he was an INDEPENDENT, he was at loggerheads with the party because he run against Frank Dobson. People like yourself seems to have forgotten this. Livingstone did not have an easy first term as had words back an forth with Blair & Brown. He was denied the Underground, the government chose to go with their PPP, which failed! I remember on LBC when Livingstone said he would concentrate on making buses in London better, when he could not get his hands on the Underground and he would show the government he could make a success of it. It was near the end of Ken's first term the Labour government started to acknowledge his success and was stupid for not choosing him in the first place. As for the Conservatives not being wanted by London, this has been for years, since the social demographic of those in London have a one tracked mind and been brainwashed into being told Labour is the party of the immigrant etc and all other kinds of bullshit which is not true. No party is your friend, they only want your vote for winning sake, then it is a matter of we would still screw you over whether you like it or not. Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones And that’s why E14 votes Labour everytime. You can put a goat up for election for Labour and it would still win, it’s that bad
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 21, 2022 11:58:17 GMT
Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones And that’s why E14 votes Labour everytime. You can put a goat up for election for Labour and it would still win, it’s that bad Shows the state of the Conservatives if people would rather vote for a goat running Labour.
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Post by ronnie on Jan 21, 2022 11:59:20 GMT
And that’s why E14 votes Labour everytime. You can put a goat up for election for Labour and it would still win, it’s that bad Shows the state of the Conservatives if people would rather vote for a goat running Labour. My point was more on blind voting for Labour but anyway
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 21, 2022 12:20:20 GMT
The mayor is not being turned into a puppet; he already IS a puppet. Khan knew what was on the table when he came to power, but then you want to dictate the hand that feeds you, what a stupid fool. When took took office, he was an INDEPENDENT, he was at loggerheads with the party because he run against Frank Dobson. People like yourself seems to have forgotten this. Livingstone did not have an easy first term as had words back an forth with Blair & Brown. He was denied the Underground, the government chose to go with their PPP, which failed! I remember on LBC when Livingstone said he would concentrate on making buses in London better, when he could not get his hands on the Underground and he would show the government he could make a success of it. It was near the end of Ken's first term the Labour government started to acknowledge his success and was stupid for not choosing him in the first place. As for the Conservatives not being wanted by London, this has been for years, since the social demographic of those in London have a one tracked mind and been brainwashed into being told Labour is the party of the immigrant etc and all other kinds of bullshit which is not true. No party is your friend, they only want your vote for winning sake, then it is a matter of we would still screw you over whether you like it or not. Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones That is a very arrogant statement. Suggest you go and live outside of London for a few years. There are many thick people in London as well you know! Go to places like Oxford and Cambridge and tell them they are uneducated and brainwashed.
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Post by wirewiper on Jan 21, 2022 13:32:28 GMT
Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones And that’s why E14 votes Labour everytime. You can put a goat up for election for Labour and it would still win, it’s that bad And yet some wards in E14 are just about the only areas in Tower Hamlets that regularly return Tory Councillors.
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