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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2024 11:42:57 GMT
So what did the native B7TL's from Go - Ahead have for gearboxes. I thought the earlier ones were 5 speed ZF as well with the last ones being 6 speed. I think it was more than ECU mapping the difference between the 215 and 250 bhp examples. I have the literature somewhere from years ago from Volvo. It is strange that TfL had purchase the higher powered buses for East Thames Buses as by then there was a ban on the higher powered engines unless dispensation was given. This was from 2001 Subject to any corrections London Central orders were mainly five speed ZF, their 06 reg WVLs being six speeders and their 53 reg PVLs on four speed Voith. London General had three speed Voith with their four speed variants introduced during 53 reg (WVL133 a three speeder with WVL134 upwards being four speeders). The difference in bhp is indeed down to the ECU. All of Connex's Tridents had uprated specs, even their newest ones up to 52 plate ¹ - PVL356 to PVL370 I believe the Darts for Connex they brought new also had uprated specs, certainly the 51 reg DT’s could shift
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2024 11:47:18 GMT
The VWLs had the same engines but were programmed to run at 250bhp, vs 215bhp for the WVLs. Also at some point weren't some PVLs upgraded to 250bhp during their mid-life refresh? Does anyone know if the 54 reg PVLs were 215bhp or 250bhp upon delivery or if not were they upgraded to 250bhp later on.
Yes, the PVL’s (and WVL’s too from memory) were uprated during their refurbishment, not sure whether the 54 reg were 250bhp from new or done during refurbishment but my guess is it was through refurbishment. It was a shame the PDL’s never had the chance to get those modifications, would of fascinating to see how they performed particularly the 02 reg examples
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 10, 2024 12:17:34 GMT
The bit of the 173 that traverses one of the busiest roads in the country is the withering section, and the crowds that get on at Beckton can easily be ignored? It's not lies because it has literally happened to me multiple times. Whether you are happy to admit it or not, Stagecoach has been a remarkable improvement to the route and I know multiple users myself who would agree the same. The 173 WAS poo until the final schedule change under Arriva which they were fighting for years to get an extra bus, then there were hardly much turns or reduced service unless something drastic happened. The running time was unrealistic and whilst you see Beckton as the prime part of the route it is NOT. The northern section and also the Heathway part is very busy compared to the Beckton stretch The curtailment point at Newham showcase also reduced the Ripple Road curtailments. The route was a success finally. The only downside on the renewal was the price which the company were not prepared to accept, then HENCE it went to Stagecoach. However the Beckton part still very much had solid usage levels and was not worthy of the constant abandonment.
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Post by M1104 on May 10, 2024 12:43:36 GMT
Subject to any corrections London Central orders were mainly five speed ZF, their 06 reg WVLs being six speeders and their 53 reg PVLs on four speed Voith. London General had three speed Voith with their four speed variants introduced during 53 reg (WVL133 a three speeder with WVL134 upwards being four speeders). The difference in bhp is indeed down to the ECU. All of Connex's Tridents had uprated specs, even their newest ones up to 52 plate ¹ - PVL356 to PVL370 I believe the Darts for Connex they brought new also had uprated specs, certainly the 51 reg DT’s could shift They did shift pretty well so perhaps they were indeed higher spec'd on that aspect
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Post by M1104 on May 10, 2024 13:09:09 GMT
Also at some point weren't some PVLs upgraded to 250bhp during their mid-life refresh? Does anyone know if the 54 reg PVLs were 215bhp or 250bhp upon delivery or if not were they upgraded to 250bhp later on.
Yes, the PVL’s (and WVL’s too from memory) were uprated during their refurbishment, not sure whether the 54 reg were 250bhp from new or done during refurbishment but my guess is it was through refurbishment. It was a shame the PDL’s never had the chance to get those modifications, would of fascinating to see how they performed particularly the 02 reg examples All their B7TLs were 215bhp from new and like you said a chunk of them were swapped for euro4 spec'd engines with 250bhp settings. As you know the Volvos were treated primarily in relation to their fan clutch issues, which was probably why the PDL Tridents never got their Cummin engines done. Despite having the lower spec'd 225bhp engines the 02 reg Tridents mind you were quite torqued up with ZF style pullaway, easily then a good contender against a Connex Trident of the same age. They got governed within weeks of service mind you. If that's what those PDLs were like with 225bhp I can only imagine the 260bhp, which we sadly never got on Voith with any of the London operators. I also would've loved the PDL Tridents to have hung around longer in London, especially where the Stagecoach versions eventually got remapped for longer gear holds, like the euro4 E40Ds that followed had from new.
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Post by 6HP502C on May 10, 2024 13:26:17 GMT
The VWLs had 5 speed ZF transmissions, something none of the WVLs had. The VWLs had the same engines but were programmed to run at 250bhp, vs 215bhp for the WVLs. The VWLs were good buses - they appeared on the 185 in the evenings are were much more lively in their performance than the VPs they ran alongside. I don’t know anything about the 04 plate WVLs but the 02 plates were superb, closely followed by the 52 plates - youtu.be/lU_ZmzAxU0A?So what did the native B7TL's from Go - Ahead have for gearboxes. I thought the earlier ones were 5 speed ZF as well with the last ones being 6 speed. I think it was more than ECU mapping the difference between the 215 and 250 bhp examples. I have the literature somewhere from years ago from Volvo. It is strange that TfL had purchase the higher powered buses for East Thames Buses as by then there was a ban on the higher powered engines unless dispensation was given. This was from 2001 AVL1 - 46 - 5 speed ZF EVL1 - 52 - 3 speed Voith PVL1 - 55 - 5 speed ZF PVL56 - 178 - 3 speed Voith PVL179 - 195 - 5 speed ZF PVL196 - 207 - 3 speed Voith PVL208 - 355 - 5 speed ZF PVL356 - 389 - 4 speed Voith PVL390 - 419 - 5 speed ZF WVL1 - 121 - 3 speed Voith WVL122 - 212 - 4 speed Voith WVL213 - 272 - 6 speed ZF Quite a few B7TLs have the 250bhp config - the VWLs, also the 55 plate VLAs with Arriva and 55 plate VNWs. Other operators went for higher ratings. Not just Connex but London United for their X plate Tridents.
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Post by allentc on May 10, 2024 15:50:34 GMT
Thanks for that list 6HP502C. If only we knew the reason for the flip flopping between PVL batches. Must be either fuel economy, reliability, suitability for routes ordered (gearing/speed/acceleration/hills) or simply personal preference of the depot's engineering manager. You'd have thought they would have just standardised on one gearbox but then us enthusiasts won't have been able to enjoy so much variety!
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Post by vjaska on May 10, 2024 16:15:02 GMT
Thanks for that list 6HP502C. If only we knew the reason for the flip flopping between PVL batches. Must be either fuel economy, reliability, suitability for routes ordered (gearing/speed/acceleration/hills) or simply personal preference of the depot's engineering manager. You'd have thought they would have just standardised on one gearbox but then us enthusiasts won't have been able to enjoy so much variety!
I think it might be a management thing as you mention as by and large, General favoured Voith whilst Central favoured ZF - this only changed once with the 53 reg PVL's when Q & BX received a batch split between the two garages (part 45 & 401) and they were Voith. I'm absolutely glad they didn't standardise like how it is nowadays
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 10, 2024 20:11:17 GMT
The 173 WAS poo until the final schedule change under Arriva which they were fighting for years to get an extra bus, then there were hardly much turns or reduced service unless something drastic happened. The running time was unrealistic and whilst you see Beckton as the prime part of the route it is NOT. The northern section and also the Heathway part is very busy compared to the Beckton stretch The curtailment point at Newham showcase also reduced the Ripple Road curtailments. The route was a success finally. The only downside on the renewal was the price which the company were not prepared to accept, then HENCE it went to Stagecoach. However the Beckton part still very much had solid usage levels and was not worthy of the constant abandonment. It used to happen for 3-4 hours per day. There was a lot of roadworks on the Heathway and in Chadwell Heath, not much the operator could have done unless they wanted to incur heavy fines. Don't worry Stagecoach are back in that position in the tables, which I notice you have kept quiet on over the past few months. It was all good for you to poke fun when they only had a small uprising for half a year, the first the many years above Arriva.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 10, 2024 20:17:36 GMT
However the Beckton part still very much had solid usage levels and was not worthy of the constant abandonment. It used to happen for 3-4 hours per day. There was a lot of roadworks on the Heathway and in Chadwell Heath, not much the operator could have done unless they wanted to incur heavy fines. Don't worry Stagecoach are back in that position in the tables, which I notice you have kept quiet on over the past few months. It was all good for you to poke fun when they only had a small uprising for half a year, the first the many years above Arriva. I've not said anything as the most recent league table is still the January 2024 one on the TfL website. The 3-4 hours per day that this would happen to the 173 would be the peak times where people needed it the most after being dumped at Beckton Station only to find out that there would be no bus for ages.
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Post by capitalomnibus on May 10, 2024 20:19:42 GMT
So what did the native B7TL's from Go - Ahead have for gearboxes. I thought the earlier ones were 5 speed ZF as well with the last ones being 6 speed. I think it was more than ECU mapping the difference between the 215 and 250 bhp examples. I have the literature somewhere from years ago from Volvo. It is strange that TfL had purchase the higher powered buses for East Thames Buses as by then there was a ban on the higher powered engines unless dispensation was given. This was from 2001 AVL1 - 46 - 5 speed ZF EVL1 - 52 - 3 speed Voith PVL1 - 55 - 5 speed ZF PVL56 - 178 - 3 speed Voith PVL179 - 195 - 5 speed ZF PVL196 - 207 - 3 speed Voith PVL208 - 355 - 5 speed ZF PVL356 - 389 - 4 speed Voith PVL390 - 419 - 5 speed ZF WVL1 - 121 - 3 speed Voith WVL122 - 212 - 4 speed Voith WVL213 - 272 - 6 speed ZF Quite a few B7TLs have the 250bhp config - the VWLs, also the 55 plate VLAs with Arriva and 55 plate VNWs. Other operators went for higher ratings. Not just Connex but London United for their X plate Tridents. I am struggling to think of what VLA's had 250bhp at Arriva. I know many had been changed including VLW's with a remap and different throttle position sensor which had get rid of kick down. But there were ways to change back the pedal and some of these after were extremely fast and could hold the revs all the way in gears to near the 3000 rpm limit. The only downside of this with constant kickdown was that it caused the gearbox to overheat at times.
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Post by vjaska on May 11, 2024 1:16:56 GMT
AVL1 - 46 - 5 speed ZF EVL1 - 52 - 3 speed Voith PVL1 - 55 - 5 speed ZF PVL56 - 178 - 3 speed Voith PVL179 - 195 - 5 speed ZF PVL196 - 207 - 3 speed Voith PVL208 - 355 - 5 speed ZF PVL356 - 389 - 4 speed Voith PVL390 - 419 - 5 speed ZF WVL1 - 121 - 3 speed Voith WVL122 - 212 - 4 speed Voith WVL213 - 272 - 6 speed ZF Quite a few B7TLs have the 250bhp config - the VWLs, also the 55 plate VLAs with Arriva and 55 plate VNWs. Other operators went for higher ratings. Not just Connex but London United for their X plate Tridents. I am struggling to think of what VLA's had 250bhp at Arriva. I know many had been changed including VLW's with a remap and different throttle position sensor which had get rid of kick down. But there were ways to change back the pedal and some of these after were extremely fast and could hold the revs all the way in gears to near the 3000 rpm limit. The only downside of this with constant kickdown was that it caused the gearbox to overheat at times. The 159's 55 reg VLA's were the uprated versions, they could easily fly and BN did a great job of looking after them. I think the rest of the VLA's were the standard bhp versions but I found some batches better than others such as N's & WD's LWB examples and the 128's VLA's
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Post by yunus on May 12, 2024 22:19:33 GMT
More than the Superloop I really hope the tube running all night is expanded to 7 days a week (I may be asking for too much)! It really helps commute around our city much faster.
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Post by Busboy105 on May 12, 2024 22:40:50 GMT
More than the Superloop I really hope the tube running all night is expanded to 7 days a week (I may be asking for too much)! It really helps commute around our city much faster. London itself isn't 24 hour so why should the trains be all day 24 hour?
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Post by yunus on May 12, 2024 22:44:30 GMT
More than the Superloop I really hope the tube running all night is expanded to 7 days a week (I may be asking for too much)! It really helps commute around our city much faster. London itself isn't 24 hour so why should the trains be all day 24 hour? How is London not 24hr? Literally in Central London there are places open 24/7!
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