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Post by TB123 on Jan 21, 2022 13:39:26 GMT
And that’s why E14 votes Labour everytime. You can put a goat up for election for Labour and it would still win, it’s that bad And yet some wards in E14 are just about the only areas in Tower Hamlets that regularly return Tory Councillors. The sort of Tories they are, remain-voting, middle class professionals, I doubt they will for much longer. Boris alienates traditional Tory voters in London like that.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 21, 2022 15:53:29 GMT
The mayor is not being turned into a puppet; he already IS a puppet. Khan knew what was on the table when he came to power, but then you want to dictate the hand that feeds you, what a stupid fool. When took took office, he was an INDEPENDENT, he was at loggerheads with the party because he run against Frank Dobson. People like yourself seems to have forgotten this. Livingstone did not have an easy first term as had words back an forth with Blair & Brown. He was denied the Underground, the government chose to go with their PPP, which failed! I remember on LBC when Livingstone said he would concentrate on making buses in London better, when he could not get his hands on the Underground and he would show the government he could make a success of it. It was near the end of Ken's first term the Labour government started to acknowledge his success and was stupid for not choosing him in the first place. As for the Conservatives not being wanted by London, this has been for years, since the social demographic of those in London have a one tracked mind and been brainwashed into being told Labour is the party of the immigrant etc and all other kinds of bullshit which is not true. No party is your friend, they only want your vote for winning sake, then it is a matter of we would still screw you over whether you like it or not. Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones Wouldn’t call myself brainwashed as someone who has voted Conservative as I have my reasons for doing so even though I probably won’t be voting this specific government again.
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Post by redbus on Jan 21, 2022 19:21:33 GMT
Is this the same Vincent Stops that used to work for London Travelwatch? He of course is right, but I will go further. - No point complaining about increased car usage when you keep axing / reducing bus services. Completely hypocritical.
- No point in complaining about fewer bus passengers when the consequence of so much of the rest of your transport policy results in fewer bus passengers
- Given Covid, the advice initially not to use public transport, working from home, what is the plan to get passengers back onto the bus and tube? Interesting that car usage is back up, walking and cycling up, but bus and tube down, down down. Answers on a postcard from anyone who thinks reduced bus services will encourage people back onto buses.
- I won't go on about continually 'regulating the service' which while helping even out waiting times also puts passengers off using the service as this has been spoken about many times on this forum. What I will say is that if there is less traffic and buses are held up artificially to keep to the timetable and so regulate the service, then buses can't take advantage of those lower traffic levels and so speed up journeys, and no one should be surprised if people then use buses less.
If buses are the most important public transport service bar none, as Cllr Stops says, then policy needs to reflect that because quite frankly current policy seems to have buses as one of the lowest priority public transport services.
It is no genius why the bus and tube services is down. People are NOT going into zone 1. Plus locally people do not want to share space with other people. No matter how much you clean the public transport the risk is higher, same way as being in any shop sharing a space with others. Transmission through breathing is highly likely or getting spores onto clothing etc. If you walk you can keep away form others, cycle same thing, in a car same thing. You are right, but again with masks there is the division between those who wish to ditch them asap and those who want to keep them. Those wishing to keep them will want the space on buses (and tubes) and not be shoulder to shoulder or even sit next to a complete stranger. Also as you say many of the mask wearers will be the ones who will not feel safe on buses in the first place and so will have made a modal switch or stay at home. How to get these people back, I don't know, because whatever the science may say it is very difficult to argue with facts against emotion. Hopefully time will help. So I think there are really three categories of people to return :- - Mask wearers currently avoiding buses (and tubes) because they feel they are not as safe as cars, walking, cycling etc.
- People still working from home and who may never return to the office in the same way as pre-covid (I include myself in this category)
- Tourists
Hopefully the tourists will be back soon, however the above will keep bus and tube numbers depressed and cause TfL financial pain for the foreseeable future. If you cut services to match the current lower demand, you are likely to lose more passengers exacerbating the situation.
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Post by redbus on Jan 21, 2022 19:29:23 GMT
The 20mph on major roads is slow and counter productive frankly. My wife is a learner and she is already moaning about how slow / difficult it is to maintain 20 on bigger roads ( downham way for example is dual carriageway and 20!). Clear example of people framing policies having no clue of ground realities I seriously do not bother with them, I still stick at the 30 as the roads I knew were 30. As for side roads more than likely I am crawling at 20 even if some are still 30. There has been no common sense whatsoever in implementing these 20 limits and it is one of the reasons why I hate some local councils. Reading between the lines they want to make driving unattractive so people use other form of transport. Unfortunately this will backfire dreadfully in time. Low speed limits affect buses and well as other vehicles, so this will make buses more unattractive, reduce passenger numbers and place an even greater strain on TfL finances. One of the great advances over time has been the ability of people to visit places afar and outside their local district. I am unconvinced people will want to always be local (everything within 15 minutes of home), and eventually they won't put up with this policy. It will take time, maybe quite a long time, but I think this will happen if you keep using sticks to make people less mobile. More carrots are needed and less sticks and you might get somewhere.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 22, 2022 10:49:47 GMT
The mayor is not being turned into a puppet; he already IS a puppet. Khan knew what was on the table when he came to power, but then you want to dictate the hand that feeds you, what a stupid fool. When took took office, he was an INDEPENDENT, he was at loggerheads with the party because he run against Frank Dobson. People like yourself seems to have forgotten this. Livingstone did not have an easy first term as had words back an forth with Blair & Brown. He was denied the Underground, the government chose to go with their PPP, which failed! I remember on LBC when Livingstone said he would concentrate on making buses in London better, when he could not get his hands on the Underground and he would show the government he could make a success of it. It was near the end of Ken's first term the Labour government started to acknowledge his success and was stupid for not choosing him in the first place. As for the Conservatives not being wanted by London, this has been for years, since the social demographic of those in London have a one tracked mind and been brainwashed into being told Labour is the party of the immigrant etc and all other kinds of bullshit which is not true. No party is your friend, they only want your vote for winning sake, then it is a matter of we would still screw you over whether you like it or not. Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones Nothing to do with education. I have seen many who have not even been college vote Labour as though it was a football team, they have no clue of their policies and could not even tell their MP's Some may not even know who the leader of the party is until it comes election time; what a shaming disgrace.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 22, 2022 10:52:45 GMT
And that’s why E14 votes Labour everytime. You can put a goat up for election for Labour and it would still win, it’s that bad Shows the state of the Conservatives if people would rather vote for a goat running Labour. No it shows the state of stupidity if people would vote for a goat
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 22, 2022 10:53:46 GMT
Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones Nothing to do with education. I have seen many who have not even been college vote Labour as though it was a football team, they have no clue of their policies and could not even tell their MP's Some may not even know who the leader of the party is until it comes election time; what a shaming disgrace. These people are the sorts of people who will always have no choice but to vote Labour because of the ridiculous policies the Conservative party actually have. I think there's many people who's moral compass never would let them vote Conservative simply because it's not an ethical party to vote for, however can be beneficial when you look out for yourself (which in fairness many people do, and it's not wrong to do so). If you live in a city with skyrocketing house prices and full of deprivation would you vote for the party that generally supports workers, or would you support the party that tends to look out for the already privileged in society?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 22, 2022 11:05:50 GMT
Education rates are higher in London, so chances of these people being the brainwashed ones are probably low when compared to the lower rates outside of London. People vote Labour because of their policies, not because they're brainwashed. Would probably argue Tory voters are more brainwashed than Labour ones Wouldn’t call myself brainwashed as someone who has voted Conservative as I have my reasons for doing so even though I probably won’t be voting this specific government again. I have voted for all 3 major political parties whether at local and general elections over the years. I have never been a sheep and just follow the crowd.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 22, 2022 11:11:40 GMT
Nothing to do with education. I have seen many who have not even been college vote Labour as though it was a football team, they have no clue of their policies and could not even tell their MP's Some may not even know who the leader of the party is until it comes election time; what a shaming disgrace. These people are the sorts of people who will always have no choice but to vote Labour because of the ridiculous policies the Conservative party actually have. I think there's many people who's moral compass never would let them vote Conservative simply because it's not an ethical party to vote for, however can be beneficial when you look out for yourself (which in fairness many people do, and it's not wrong to do so). If you live in a city with skyrocketing house prices and full of deprivation would you vote for the party that generally supports workers, or would you support the party that tends to look out for the already privileged in society? No i would not vote for Labour as they seem to want to tax you through the roof, they do not encourage you to work and those that are working on the breadline get shafted by them even further. I actually do not blame many people who sit at home claiming benefits over the years as various policies have encouraged this.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 22, 2022 11:12:00 GMT
Nothing to do with education. I have seen many who have not even been college vote Labour as though it was a football team, they have no clue of their policies and could not even tell their MP's Some may not even know who the leader of the party is until it comes election time; what a shaming disgrace. These people are the sorts of people who will always have no choice but to vote Labour because of the ridiculous policies the Conservative party actually have. I think there's many people who's moral compass never would let them vote Conservative simply because it's not an ethical party to vote for, however can be beneficial when you look out for yourself (which in fairness many people do, and it's not wrong to do so). If you live in a city with skyrocketing house prices and full of deprivation would you vote for the party that generally supports workers, or would you support the party that tends to look out for the already privileged in society? I know we have a local MP on here who represents Labour so I don’t think I’ll go too much in detail in case of perhaps upsetting anyone however I can’t say under a Labour mayor it has been made any easier to live in London in terms of costs & I don’t think we’ve seen such since Ken that has really represented that IMO.
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Post by greenboy on Jan 22, 2022 11:31:43 GMT
Wouldn’t call myself brainwashed as someone who has voted Conservative as I have my reasons for doing so even though I probably won’t be voting this specific government again. I have voted for all 3 major political parties whether at local and general elections over the years. I have never been a sheep and just follow the crowd. So have I and I'll never understand people who are wedded to a particular party like a football team or who vote according to family tradition etc...... I'll just vote for whoever I think is the best option at the time.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 22, 2022 12:47:40 GMT
Nothing to do with education. I have seen many who have not even been college vote Labour as though it was a football team, they have no clue of their policies and could not even tell their MP's Some may not even know who the leader of the party is until it comes election time; what a shaming disgrace. These people are the sorts of people who will always have no choice but to vote Labour because of the ridiculous policies the Conservative party actually have. I think there's many people who's moral compass never would let them vote Conservative simply because it's not an ethical party to vote for, however can be beneficial when you look out for yourself (which in fairness many people do, and it's not wrong to do so). If you live in a city with skyrocketing house prices and full of deprivation would you vote for the party that generally supports workers, or would you support the party that tends to look out for the already privileged in society? It needs to be a balance and we do need the rich to support the incomes of the poor. Yes, this government is too lenient on the extreme rich and companies when it comes to tax but too harsh and they just won’t invest their wealth in the country through jobs thereby creating new taxpayers. But I think this rise in “gotcha” journalism has made it far more obvious where governments in recent years have been wrong on their policies.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 22, 2022 13:47:32 GMT
These people are the sorts of people who will always have no choice but to vote Labour because of the ridiculous policies the Conservative party actually have. I think there's many people who's moral compass never would let them vote Conservative simply because it's not an ethical party to vote for, however can be beneficial when you look out for yourself (which in fairness many people do, and it's not wrong to do so). If you live in a city with skyrocketing house prices and full of deprivation would you vote for the party that generally supports workers, or would you support the party that tends to look out for the already privileged in society? It needs to be a balance and we do need the rich to support the incomes of the poor. Yes, this government is too lenient on the extreme rich and companies when it comes to tax but too harsh and they just won’t invest their wealth in the country through jobs thereby creating new taxpayers. But I think this rise in “gotcha” journalism has made it far more obvious where governments in recent years have been wrong on their policies. In some cases however the gotcha media really only centres it on one person. Though I despise the man, it is clear that the media absolutely berated Trump in his entire presidency yet as soon as Biden comes along there seems to be very little criticism towards him.
I do think Trump has got a lot of bad press though because he ultimately deserves it in a lot of cases, for example with the Epstein scandal unfolding I'm sure we'll hear a lot about his shady past and rightfully so, and I imagine depending on what is coming out he could potentially have his chances of being re-elected in 2024 destroyed.
The "gotcha" media has certainly had its run though. Only 28% of people trust the media www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/06/16/public-trust-in-media-plummets-in-uk-with-just-28-trusting-most-news-research/, not too surprising especially when you have obnoxious pieces of vermin on the telly such as Piers Morgan, and I imagine people such as Kay Burley & Piers Morgan being absolute hypocrites in regards to lockdown has only tainted the trust even more. Channels like GBNews I hoped would succeed however it becomes boring after a while like with GMB, they just go over the same issues over and over again. Such a shame given that it was marketed towards those who were on the conservative side of the political spectrum who were disliking the anti-woke media.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jan 22, 2022 13:49:31 GMT
Wouldn’t call myself brainwashed as someone who has voted Conservative as I have my reasons for doing so even though I probably won’t be voting this specific government again. I have voted for all 3 major political parties whether at local and general elections over the years. I have never been a sheep and just follow the crowd. Had I have been old enough to have voted for Ken when he was running I'd have probably voted him in (I was 3 years off in 2008 ) I was really impressed with his commitments to London even though I came from a Conservative background myself.
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Post by rugbyref on Jan 24, 2022 14:35:55 GMT
Is there a danger of common sense breaking out at tfl? The cage and stop at Chelsfield Centre has been moved 25 yards from an illogical place behind parked cars to a logical place where passengers can stand at the kerbside!
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