|
Post by M1104 on Apr 28, 2018 9:18:40 GMT
The last TT N31 was last night! Night service contracts nearly always commence Fri night / Sat morning in advance of the day service contract starting. The driver did nothing wrong. Sorry I meant the last 31, man my brain isn't working very well tonight, I need sleep. Anyway, the 0030 out of Camden never ran... Why? No explanation. Had no idea why N31 went into my brain!!! I wondered if it was done in error. I remember one occasion around the late 90s when a West End London route was switching operators and the new operator somehow forgot that it was scheduled to put out night buses for that first night, resulting in no night buses at all. Presumably it was assumed the 'outgoing' operator was supposed to have done that Metroline seems to come to mind but I don't remember if it was then the outgoing operator that ended it correctly or the new operator that got it wrong.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Apr 28, 2018 9:34:39 GMT
I wondered if it was done in error. I remember one occasion around the late 90s when a West End London route was switching operators and the new operator somehow forgot that it was scheduled to put out night buses for that first night, resulting in no night buses at all. Presumably it was assumed the 'outgoing' operator was supposed to have done that Metroline seems to come to mind but I don't remember if it was then the outgoing operator that ended it correctly or the new operator that got it wrong. Are you referring to the rather infamous N10 incident when the route changed between London United and First London? First London failed to run the Friday night service. Quite how any established operator manages to make these sorts of errors is beyond me. Someone brand new to running London services I could partly understand but even then you'd expect them to be doubly careful so as not to make any big mistakes on their debut!
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Apr 28, 2018 10:36:44 GMT
Are you referring to the rather infamous N10 incident when the route changed between London United and First London? First London failed to run the Friday night service. Quite how any established operator manages to make these sorts of errors is beyond me. Someone brand new to running London services I could partly understand but even then you'd expect them to be doubly careful so as not to make any big mistakes on their debut! Yes that's the incident but couldn't remember the route nor operator in question...apologies to Metroline as I was wrong on that aspect. I imagine incidents like that can be down to one person[1], perhaps the one responsible for managing duty scheduling in conjunction with route timetables. I remember another incident[2] where a driver told me that a new schedule had taken place on a Saturday where he went out to take over his bus only to find another driver on a 'different' duty number was scheduled to take over the same bus. It was practically a case of 'flip the coin' to see who returns back to the depot as one of the duties was supposed to instruct the driver to take out a different bus from the depot. [1] - whom I imagine got quite a 'grilling' to say the least [2] - not going to mention route, depot nor company
|
|
|
Post by enviroPB on Apr 28, 2018 11:28:56 GMT
The last TT N31 was last night! Night service contracts nearly always commence Fri night / Sat morning in advance of the day service contract starting. The driver did nothing wrong. Sorry I meant the last 31, man my brain isn't working very well tonight, I need sleep. Anyway, the 0030 out of Camden never ran... Why? No explanation. Had no idea why N31 went into my brain!!! I noticed that too last night. I waited at Chalk Farm as I was delayed to catch the last 31, and it failed to show. My only guess is that the last 31 is crosslinked with the N31 service, and as such TT accidentally committed a clerical error by not running he last westbound 31 last night. Not too sure for N routes that mirror day routes but for 24 hour routes; the first night service is not the one after the late night headway, but it's indeed the one that proceeds it. Example- 238 departures from Barking; 00:00, 00:15, 00:45. It won't be documented as such on timetables, but it is classed as the first night service [on the 238] so I assume the same happened for TT not operating the last 31 out of Camden as it could be classed as a night service. Eh, didn't bother me too much. I took this opportunity to ride the N31 end-to-end, well Chalk Farm to Clapham Junction lool.
|
|
|
Post by redexpress on Apr 28, 2018 12:32:48 GMT
I wondered if it was done in error. I remember one occasion around the late 90s when a West End London route was switching operators and the new operator somehow forgot that it was scheduled to put out night buses for that first night, resulting in no night buses at all. Presumably it was assumed the 'outgoing' operator was supposed to have done that Metroline seems to come to mind but I don't remember if it was then the outgoing operator that ended it correctly or the new operator that got it wrong. Are you referring to the rather infamous N10 incident when the route changed between London United and First London? First London failed to run the Friday night service. Quite how any established operator manages to make these sorts of errors is beyond me. Someone brand new to running London services I could partly understand but even then you'd expect them to be doubly careful so as not to make any big mistakes on their debut! I remember the N10 incident well, but I also have a vague memory that the reverse happened a few years later, i.e. both the outgoing operator and the new operator ran the night service to the same timetable on the Friday night! I can't for the life of me remember which route or operators were involved - can anyone else remember this? There was a similar mess last year when the 22/N22 replaced the C2; on the Friday night Abellio cut the C2 back to Regent Street as planned, but Go-Ahead didn't reroute the N22 until the Saturday night, leaving the Mayfair area unserved for one night.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Apr 28, 2018 15:27:37 GMT
I imagine incidents like that can be down to one person[1], perhaps the one responsible for managing duty scheduling in conjunction with route timetables. I remember another incident[2] where a driver told me that a new schedule had taken place on a Saturday where he went out to take over his bus only to find another driver on a 'different' duty number was scheduled to take over the same bus. It was practically a case of 'flip the coin' to see who returns back to the depot as one of the duties was supposed to instruct the driver to take out a different bus from the depot. [1] - whom I imagine got quite a 'grilling' to say the least [2] - not going to mention route, depot nor company I may be talking garbage but are bus companies so thinly staffed that one person has sole responsibility for all of the impacts within the business from taking on new route contracts? There are multiple impacts within a company from taking on new work - drivers, driver rosters, garage management, vehicle allocation, maintenance implications from taking on new / different mileage, contract performance measurement, control room / I-Bus supervision, accounting and invoicing for monies to / from TfL etc etc etc. I frankly can't see how there are not multiple people across the business who HAVE to know about the gaining or losing of contracted work to make sure that everything works properly. This is why I struggle a tiny bit as to how an entire night's service can be lost. Surely if the rosters have the wrong day / date on them SOMEONE in the business MUST spot the error? I may be naive but it requires multiple failings / lack of corporate consciousness / lack of attention to detail to let such a failure happen.
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Apr 28, 2018 15:42:21 GMT
Are you referring to the rather infamous N10 incident when the route changed between London United and First London? First London failed to run the Friday night service. Quite how any established operator manages to make these sorts of errors is beyond me. Someone brand new to running London services I could partly understand but even then you'd expect them to be doubly careful so as not to make any big mistakes on their debut! I remember the N10 incident well, but I also have a vague memory that the reverse happened a few years later, i.e. both the outgoing operator and the new operator ran the night service to the same timetable on the Friday night! I can't for the life of me remember which route or operators were involved - can anyone else remember this? There was a similar mess last year when the 22/N22 replaced the C2; on the Friday night Abellio cut the C2 back to Regent Street as planned, but Go-Ahead didn't reroute the N22 until the Saturday night, leaving the Mayfair area unserved for one night. With the latter, TfL were still showing the 22 and N22 going to Piccadilly on the Sunday, the C2 continuing through Mayfair and the 14 disappeared off the system entirely for a few days!
|
|
|
Post by riverside on Apr 28, 2018 19:24:53 GMT
Nearly 20 years ago my parked car was side swiped in Hampton by a TGM bus on what I think was then still the 726. As I surveyed the damage a builder working opposite told me what had happened and the time; as the car was driveable I went straight to Fulwell Garage to complain. As the car was decorated with TGM's distinctive blue and yellow paint they could hardly argue, and they paid for the damage without dispute. Certainly back in the 70s London Transport did not not have insurance. They had a bond amount to cover claims. Things have obviously changed since then. When bus drivers had a collision on duty in LT days they did have to report the incident at the local police station. When they went in the person on the desk would invariably ask the driver for his tax and insurance. When the bus driver said they did not have them the policeman or woman would always tell them that they had 7 days to produce them. Needless to say they never did and LTs claims/insurance department took over.
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Apr 29, 2018 0:23:26 GMT
I was waiting for a 192 at Tottenham Hale today evening. I had just reached the stop and had been waiting for 30 seconds or so when a 192 pulled up (there was already a fairly large group of people, not sure how long they had been waiting). The driver proceeded to wait at the stand for 3-4 minutes without opening the door; people clearly got frustrated and were knocking on the door so that they could get on. After 4 ninutes,the driver put a “not in service” and drove off. He immediately got stuck due to other buses trying to leave the bus station and ended up blocking the next 192 (which was in service). Why would you do that ....
|
|
|
Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 29, 2018 15:17:32 GMT
I was waiting for a 192 at Tottenham Hale today evening. I had just reached the stop and had been waiting for 30 seconds or so when a 192 pulled up (there was already a fairly large group of people, not sure how long they had been waiting). The driver proceeded to wait at the stand for 3-4 minutes without opening the door; people clearly got frustrated and were knocking on the door so that they could get on. After 4 ninutes,the driver put a “not in service” and drove off. He immediately got stuck due to other buses trying to leave the bus station and ended up blocking the next 192 (which was in service). Why would you do that .... maybe the driver had finished and the bus was due to go back to NP? Maybe the controllers had instructed the driver to run "light" to somewhere, like Edmonton Green, to make some time up.
|
|
|
Post by galwhv69 on Apr 29, 2018 15:21:07 GMT
I was waiting for a 192 at Tottenham Hale today evening. I had just reached the stop and had been waiting for 30 seconds or so when a 192 pulled up (there was already a fairly large group of people, not sure how long they had been waiting). The driver proceeded to wait at the stand for 3-4 minutes without opening the door; people clearly got frustrated and were knocking on the door so that they could get on. After 4 ninutes,the driver put a “not in service” and drove off. He immediately got stuck due to other buses trying to leave the bus station and ended up blocking the next 192 (which was in service). Why would you do that .... Maybe the controllers had instructed the driver to run "light" to somewhere, like Edmonton Green, to make some time up. Then the bus would have left straight away,wouldn't it?
|
|
|
Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 29, 2018 16:44:50 GMT
Not always, The driver may have a) needed to enter the next trip details into their ticket machine B) needed to fill out their log card C) spoke to the controller D) just wanted to stop driving and relax for a few minutes before driving off again
Many of the bus and train drivers on here are probably (like me) the same, when I get to a terminal all I want is a moment or two to myself before I start back up again, even if I'm running empty back to the depot
|
|
|
Post by ronnie on Apr 29, 2018 16:45:31 GMT
I was waiting for a 192 at Tottenham Hale today evening. I had just reached the stop and had been waiting for 30 seconds or so when a 192 pulled up (there was already a fairly large group of people, not sure how long they had been waiting). The driver proceeded to wait at the stand for 3-4 minutes without opening the door; people clearly got frustrated and were knocking on the door so that they could get on. After 4 ninutes,the driver put a “not in service” and drove off. He immediately got stuck due to other buses trying to leave the bus station and ended up blocking the next 192 (which was in service). Why would you do that .... maybe the driver had finished and the bus was due to go back to NP? Maybe the controllers had instructed the driver to run "light" to somewhere, like Edmonton Green, to make some time up. Then why wait for a fairly long time on the stand right before the passengers with the blinds reading “Enfield”...
|
|
|
Post by ThinLizzy on Apr 29, 2018 16:54:58 GMT
maybe the driver had finished and the bus was due to go back to NP? Maybe the controllers had instructed the driver to run "light" to somewhere, like Edmonton Green, to make some time up. Then why wait for a fairly long time on the stand right before the passengers with the blinds reading “Enfield”... as I say, maybe the driver had an instruction from the controller to run light some where. At the end of the day, if the driver is on their "stand time" they don't have to open the doors to let people on
|
|
|
Post by grubbysa on Apr 30, 2018 9:52:04 GMT
maybe the driver had finished and the bus was due to go back to NP? Maybe the controllers had instructed the driver to run "light" to somewhere, like Edmonton Green, to make some time up. Then why wait for a fairly long time on the stand right before the passengers with the blinds reading “Enfield”... Drivers are entitled to 5 mins stand time regardless even if they are running late. From the situation described it sounds like the driver was going to do the trip to Enfield but was called last minute by control to, as previously suggested, run dead to another location.
|
|