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Post by snowman on Sept 9, 2018 12:48:12 GMT
When a high frequency route is running on headways, there is no early running. buses are advertised as every 8-12 mins. Certainly on the 111 drivers do not have times on their duty card and are required to keep headway from the bus in front. if their is a bus every 8-12 minutes the service is running fine (regardless of actual timings). the only issue is multiple buses at the stands at each end and live changeovers where a relief driver is at the changeover point for a specific time. I apologise. This was at 03:30 when there is a frequency of 30 minutes. Unacceptable to ignore the low frequency timetable and whizz past stops 7-15 mins early |
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Post by sid on Sept 9, 2018 12:58:59 GMT
I apologise. This was at 03:30 when there is a frequency of 30 minutes. Unacceptable to ignore the low frequency timetable and whizz past stops 7-15 mins early Totally unacceptable and should be reported. |
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Post by M1104 on Sept 9, 2018 13:15:45 GMT
Do drivers still have to sign on at the depot with modules or is it only the first driver of the day that now does so with the same module remaining on the bus throughout the day....or is it a case of depot/company discretion?
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Post by Paul on Sept 9, 2018 13:41:58 GMT
Do drivers still have to sign on at the depot with modules or is it only the first driver of the day that now does so with the same module remaining on the bus throughout the day....or is it a case of depot/company discretion? It’s certainly the case at Bromley where we operate ‘One Bus One Module.’ We were told it was a trial and if successful would be rolled out throughout the company but as far as I’m aware drivers at other Stagecoach garages still have their own module |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 13:50:58 GMT
Do drivers still have to sign on at the depot with modules or is it only the first driver of the day that now does so with the same module remaining on the bus throughout the day....or is it a case of depot/company discretion? It’s certainly the case at Bromley where we operate ‘One Bus One Module.’ We were told it was a trial and if successful would be rolled out throughout the company but as far as I’m aware drivers at other Stagecoach garages still have their own module MG do it as a whole garage |
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Post by grubbysa on Sept 9, 2018 14:24:33 GMT
Unacceptable to ignore the low frequency timetable and whizz past stops 7-15 mins early Totally unacceptable and should be reported. I do agree that this shouldn't happen, but as 111 is classed as high frequency, all RATP need to do is maintain the required headway, even at every 30. I have been caught out many times by this as well on many routes. Personally I do think that routes should be measured by headway only when it runs at a high frequency level then when the frequency drops, be measured as 'On Time' as with normal low frequency routes. |
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Post by Londonbuses54 on Sept 9, 2018 14:44:47 GMT
Do drivers still have to sign on at the depot with modules or is it only the first driver of the day that now does so with the same module remaining on the bus throughout the day....or is it a case of depot/company discretion? It’s certainly the case at Bromley where we operate ‘One Bus One Module.’ We were told it was a trial and if successful would be rolled out throughout the company but as far as I’m aware drivers at other Stagecoach garages still have their own module I know this is the wrong thread for this, but as you work at TB, do you know anything about the citaros? Apparently they aren’t in that good condition!? |
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Post by deppy42 on Sept 9, 2018 15:27:21 GMT
Totally unacceptable and should be reported. I do agree that this shouldn't happen, but as 111 is classed as high frequency, all RATP need to do is maintain the required headway, even at every 30. I have been caught out many times by this as well on many routes. Personally I do think that routes should be measured by headway only when it runs at a high frequency level then when the frequency drops, be measured as 'On Time' as with normal low frequency routes. Night 111 are classed as low frequency and should keep to time wherever possible. A maximum of 2 mins early is permitted bu LU. The driver will be pulled in for running early if ibus data shows early. The ibus data is checked where buses fail to meet minimum targets for on time departures. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 9, 2018 15:34:16 GMT
I do agree that this shouldn't happen, but as 111 is classed as high frequency, all RATP need to do is maintain the required headway, even at every 30. I have been caught out many times by this as well on many routes. Personally I do think that routes should be measured by headway only when it runs at a high frequency level then when the frequency drops, be measured as 'On Time' as with normal low frequency routes. Night 111 are classed as low frequency and should keep to time wherever possible. A maximum of 2 mins early is permitted bu LU. The driver will be pulled in for running early if ibus data shows early. The ibus data is checked where buses fail to meet minimum targets for on time departures. Can you confirm though that when a route is a mix of high frequency in the daytime but low frequency in the evenings that the total measurement is still headway based (for high freq routes) rather than a composite measure? Also what happens on a Sunday if a route is low frequency then (say every 15 or 20 mins) but is high frequency the rest of the week? Is it measured by on time departures on the Sunday. I have to say I really struggle to see how, even on a high frequency route, that a driver could legitimately travel 7 mins early and arrive 15 mins early. The service would have to be in a shambolic state for that to be a "valid" way of operating a timetabled journey. |
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Post by YY13VKP on Sept 9, 2018 15:50:58 GMT
In the early days of opo, the only place where the TGWU allowed buses to reverse in service was the Old Lodge Lane stand at Purley on the 234a, because the union were aware that the service would be withdrawn otherwise. Abridge saw crew double deckers for years after you'd expect opo because the terminal required a reversing manoeuvre: i think there was something similar on the 150 at Lambourne End. I can't recall it being necessary to reverse on the Old Lodge Lane stand. It isn’t, but if the driver can’t do a full turn in one, then the bus will have to reverse, it’s the reason why Streetlites and MCV’s are banned from the 455. |
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Post by ibus246 on Sept 9, 2018 16:10:50 GMT
I do agree that this shouldn't happen, but as 111 is classed as high frequency, all RATP need to do is maintain the required headway, even at every 30. I have been caught out many times by this as well on many routes. Personally I do think that routes should be measured by headway only when it runs at a high frequency level then when the frequency drops, be measured as 'On Time' as with normal low frequency routes. Night 111 are classed as low frequency and should keep to time wherever possible. A maximum of 2 mins early is permitted bu LU. The driver will be pulled in for running early if ibus data shows early. The ibus data is checked where buses fail to meet minimum targets for on time departures. Yes N119 is also low frequency |
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Post by grubbysa on Sept 9, 2018 17:06:31 GMT
Night 111 are classed as low frequency and should keep to time wherever possible. A maximum of 2 mins early is permitted bu LU. The driver will be pulled in for running early if ibus data shows early. The ibus data is checked where buses fail to meet minimum targets for on time departures. Can you confirm though that when a route is a mix of high frequency in the daytime but low frequency in the evenings that the total measurement is still headway based (for high freq routes) rather than a composite measure? Also what happens on a Sunday if a route is low frequency then (say every 15 or 20 mins) but is high frequency the rest of the week? Is it measured by on time departures on the Sunday. I have to say I really struggle to see how, even on a high frequency route, that a driver could legitimately travel 7 mins early and arrive 15 mins early. The service would have to be in a shambolic state for that to be a "valid" way of operating a timetabled journey. It is always measured by Headway. Route 191 is a example of this, on Sundays it runs every 15, however the MDT still shows the 'flags' for headway. When some buses are running late you get a call or text from iBus requesting you call them whilst on stand for a departure time in order for them to provide a even service. Even if your leader leaves about 5 mins late and everybody else is on time, the couple of buses behind are told to depart later then scheduled to avoid bunching. However I'm not certain how it works for the night variant on 24 hour routes like the 111. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Sept 9, 2018 18:02:37 GMT
Can you confirm though that when a route is a mix of high frequency in the daytime but low frequency in the evenings that the total measurement is still headway based (for high freq routes) rather than a composite measure? Also what happens on a Sunday if a route is low frequency then (say every 15 or 20 mins) but is high frequency the rest of the week? Is it measured by on time departures on the Sunday. I have to say I really struggle to see how, even on a high frequency route, that a driver could legitimately travel 7 mins early and arrive 15 mins early. The service would have to be in a shambolic state for that to be a "valid" way of operating a timetabled journey. It's one or the other - no dual QSI regime in place. I recall thinking this when I drove the C10 which was 3bph on Sundays but no obligation to follow the timecard. Some garages are pragmatic in this regard - at UX there were notices up telling drivers to run on time in the early mornings and late evenings and the controllers set the data terminal to show schedule deviation, rather than headway despite it being a high frequency route. That said, on the U4 which had humourous running times, I was allocated the most powerful VP in the garage (VP480) at the start of service one day and made a point of running dead on time through liberal use of the gas pedal. So many people on the freehold sections almost missed the bus because they were used to it running late - lots of paniced running down driveways and frantic waving as people processed the shock of the bus actually turning up on time! I didn't attempt the same on the way back  |
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Post by Hassaan on Sept 9, 2018 21:43:51 GMT
Oh dear, that's not good  maybe they curtailed buses at White Hart as the 282 exists for local passengers? The Metroline equivalent was Norwood Green but not seen that since before the summer holidays. I don't normally go north of Southall Town Centre these days (actually, even reaching there seems rare these days as there is a good chance I'll be using the train  ). I do think I'm probably more critical of Metroline than London United (or Abellio) although over the last year I've also become less tolerant of public transport problems in general. Becoming a grumpy old sod at the age of 23?!   The two times I've taken the bus between 0700-0800 on a Saturday, when it still runs every 20 minutes: 7 July, 0704 from Norwood Green (0650 from Hounslow, running number 6): Bus was about 12 minutes late at Norwood Green after a 5 minute late start from Hounslow, having lost 10-15 minutes on the previous trip  . 18 August, 0744 from Norwood Green (0730 from Hounslow, running number 1): The bus departed Hounslow on time but was already 5 minutes early by my stop. Good job I kept an eye on it, although still would have been game over if no one else was already at the stop, as I wasn't expecting it to be that early! During the day I can live with them departing whenever they want. It is the evenings where it gets annoying, especially now that winter will be coming soon 😓 (that bridge at Southall station is very exposed to the wind, probably just end up going via Hounslow more lol). LU mostly curtailed buses at the end of Lady Margaret Road, Ruislip Road especially in the mornings. Buses were also constantly bunched on one side and huge gaps on the other side. There was one particular day where I was on a TA, the driver told everyone to get off as he had engine trouble and took it out of service. Only for it to appear hours later without any trouble. Metroline ain’t no angels either though and the buses are starting to look run-down. 😅 PA seem to run them intensively. Ah that was standard for the morning peak. Probably still happening though due to unpredictable traffic. I think a few of those TAs were a bit dodgy (saw '230 having to be towed more than once ), but sounds like it was on a peak running number (AV114-117) and the issue was sorted out during the afternoon. Must admit that I was thinking the same about the buses, although it is minor. Compared to the slightly newer 17-reg VWHs at PV the moquette and paint is more faded (and Metroline moquette really doesn't age well anyway). Several times I've got on the 7 and had to double check what reg they are! In comparison the poor things at PA ( ) don't get much of a break as they're on the 120 for most of the day then loads of them go onto the (N)297 or N7 (and previously 105 too), before appearing on the 120 again in the morning. |
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Post by gloriouswater on Sept 9, 2018 23:26:58 GMT
Some routes really have far too much running time.
I was headed for Lewisham Station (to get on the 89), LVF was showing a 225 due at my stop at 16:22 (this is a couple of stops down from Surrey Quays Station, where according to LBR.net it's due at 16:18. Yeah, I doubt it takes that long on a Sunday.) - just to be sure I left home early and sure enough, the bus ran early too. It rocked up at 16:19, 3min early and just 13 minutes after the bus in front had gone through! (I may look at LVF too much ) Most journeys on this route go super slow but this one was just hilarious. My E200 didn't get above second gear even once, we were crawling that slowly trying not to run any more early. Got caught in the traffic in Deptford as always... picked people up at various stops... at no point did we start to go any faster. Despite all that we got into Lewisham 2min before advertised That's right, despite not going above 10mph at any point we only lost one minute, which wasn't even enough to make us run on time let alone being late!
Still, being a Sunday and all, at least the bus didn't smell of chicken  |
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maybe they curtailed buses at White Hart as the 282 exists for local passengers? The Metroline equivalent was Norwood Green but not seen that since before the summer holidays. I don't normally go north of Southall Town Centre these days (actually, even reaching there seems rare these days as there is a good chance I'll be using the train 
). I do think I'm probably more critical of Metroline than London United (or Abellio) although over the last year I've also become less tolerant of public transport problems in general. Becoming a grumpy old sod at the age of 23?! 
.