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Post by deppy42 on May 12, 2011 18:54:19 GMT
Does anyone know if there is a consultation or proposed changes on the 81. Tender bids are due in in 3 months and it now uses London Uniteds oldest low floor double decks, a mix of VA and VP For many years this was single deck operated, but these shortish double decks were introduced a few years ago. What I'm thinking is does it really need double decks or would the route be an ideal candidate for new Tempos (which carry upto 78) as presumably normal single decks (capacity 60) are a bit small. My other thought was if it was to stay double deck what would be chosen, the existing fleet would be very old for a 2012 renewal. The only double decks introduced recently by LU are E400hybrids and I can't see about 14 extra hybrids (unless used in Central London to displace something). It will also be well over 2 years since last Scania SPs were delivered so unlikely to be more SPs (not even sure if the design still manufactured ?). The route 81 was assessed with a 12m Tempo on Monday 9th as part of the tender consultation. Unfortunately I don't know the outcome of the route test. |
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Post by beaver14uk on May 12, 2011 19:57:26 GMT
Very proactive  |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 13, 2011 9:08:57 GMT
I would still keep the 81 DD. I think it can get as busy as other DD routes plus what with the H37, 203 and potenially the 81, 222 will AV have enought space for so many buses that are over 1m longer. Plus is it that much cheaper running 12m SD as opposed to DD's and they still would only seat about 40 which I dont think would be enough for the 81 which does have long distance passengers.
Also the route has long had additional DD journies long before the DD conversion which seems silly to have to buy 3 new DD's for those specific extra journies plus new SD's aswell. A full DD fleet would still work out better in the long run. and could poss have a freq reduction form every 12-13 mins to every 15 saving on mileage costs.
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Post by snowman on May 14, 2011 6:27:05 GMT
I would still keep the 81 DD. I think it can get as busy as other DD routes plus what with the H37, 203 and potenially the 81, 222 will AV have enought space for so many buses that are over 1m longer. Plus is it that much cheaper running 12m SD as opposed to DD's and they still would only seat about 40 which I dont think would be enough for the 81 which does have long distance passengers. Also the route has long had additional DD journies long before the DD conversion which seems silly to have to buy 3 new DD's for those specific extra journies plus new SD's aswell. A full DD fleet would still work out better in the long run. and could poss have a freq reduction form every 12-13 mins to every 15 saving on mileage costs. Route 120 is actually up for renewal a few weeks earlier, and although a few of the early SP omnicities are used, there is still an allocation of old VAs. So if this is retained won't be a case of ordering just 3 DDs as other DD orders would be about same time. However this does take us back to original query what type of decker are LU likely to buy for mid 2012 deliveries as it will be long gap since last SPs and new types are now on market (and they haven't done Volvo since 2004) For completeness there are a few other routes (mainly school routes) around the same time, so here is a subset of the Tender pvr thread so its easy to see the whole picture of possible double decks needed Tranche 383 (Starts June 2012) (Total pvr 49 – 72°)Bids due in 27/06/11, scheduled award date September 2011120 (Hounslow – Northolt), pvr 16, 10.6m DD, London United, AV Tranche 385 (Starts June-July 2012) (Total pvr 4 - 17°)Bids due in 04/07/11, scheduled award date October 2011406° (Kingston – Epsom), pvr 4, 9.9m DD, Quality Line, EB 418° (Kingston – Epsom), pvr 4, 9.9mDD, Quality Line, EB 671 (North Kingston – Chessington), pvr 1, 9.9m DD, London United, FW 691 (Ham – Surbiton), pvr 1, 9.9m DD, London United, FW route marked ° may get 2 year extension, if so will be removed from this trancheTranche 386 (Starts July 2012) (Total pvr 14)Bids due in 25/07/11, scheduled award date October 2011613 (Worcester Park – Sutton), pvr 1, 9.9m DD, London United, TV Tranche 387 (Starts Jul-Sep 2012) (Total pvr 30 – 60°)Bids due in 01/08/11, scheduled award date October 201181 (Hounslow – Slough), pvr 13, 10m DD, London United, AV 222 (Hounslow – Uxbridge), pvr 17+3DD, 10.8m or 10m DD, London United, AV |
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Post by southlondonbus on May 14, 2011 19:52:41 GMT
according to londonbusroutes the 81 is getting a new timetable which incorporates an additional AM peak journey which would suggest peak loadings are quite heavy and the current DD schedule struggles a bit. Therefore a 34 seat SD would probably not be the best option for the 81 and I can see it staying DD.
I rode one of the Tempo's on the H37 yesterday and was surprised they only seated 34 on a 12m bus. A 10.2m SOE seats 29 with 31 standing.
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Post by Jack on May 18, 2011 6:25:32 GMT
Yesterday i saw DPS667 heading up to the west middlesex hospital stand full with people wearing High-Vis. Is it a sign the route testing has finally begun for the 110 extension to West Mid?
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Post by deppy42 on May 18, 2011 19:02:01 GMT
Yesterday i saw DPS667 heading up to the west middlesex hospital stand full with people wearing High-Vis. Is it a sign the route testing has finally begun for the 110 extension to West Mid? Yes ;D Today it was the turn of the new bus station at Slough prior to opening to test stopping arrangements & infrastructure. |
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Post by Jack on May 20, 2011 15:25:47 GMT
AV's new RATPDEV Sign has now replaced the Transdev sign on the outside of the garage. Saw the final panel being applied today. Looks very nice
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Post by snowman on Jun 4, 2011 6:35:48 GMT
If 81 was to stay double deck what would be chosen, the existing fleet would be very old for a 2012 renewal. The only double decks introduced recently by LU are E400hybrids and I can't see about 14 extra hybrids (unless used in Central London to displace something). It will also be well over 2 years since last Scania SPs were delivered so unlikely to be more SPs (not even sure if the design still manufactured ?). The route 81 was assessed with a 12m Tempo on Monday 9th as part of the tender consultation. Unfortunately I don't know the outcome of the route test. Off topic (apologies) but the other part of RATP Dev in UK (Bournemouth) has just received first double decks for 6 years, they are 93 seat Geminis. Now Bournemouth bought Tempos and then LU bought Tempos, would LU follow again ? www.bybus.co.uk/2011/06/yellow-buses-takes-delivery-of-first-new-double-deckers-for-six-years/ |
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Post by Volvo on Jun 4, 2011 10:52:47 GMT
It says 93 passengers as there is no way a 10.4m gemini can seat 93 people that is tri axle territory.
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Post by snowman on Jun 4, 2011 16:00:26 GMT
It says 93 passengers as there is no way a 10.4m gemini can seat 93 people that is tri axle territory. I think it must be an error and should be max capacity as Wrightbus site shows 93 capacity (74 seats & 21 standing), as this totals 95 presumably 2 seats are tip-ups www.wrightbus.com/site/default.asp?CATID=31Mind you, tri axle has capacity listed as 120 (80 seats +44 standees) so even that can't muster 93 seats Not sure why Wrightbus only make 10.4m and 12m versions on B9TL chassis, Optare must use different chassis versions as their B9TL buses are 11m or 12.4m www.optare.com/images/brochures/Olympus%20gen%20arrgts%20&%20seat%20plans.pdf |
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Post by Volvo on Jun 4, 2011 16:06:29 GMT
You just proved my point when I said that is tri axle territory in that second link of yours.
As you will see one of the diagrams show seating of 100 and another shows seating of 96.
BTW the big bus tri axle visionaire's seat 91.
Also the b9tl olympus does come in 10.3m aswell (for london market)
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Post by vjaska on Jun 4, 2011 18:57:43 GMT
And the Gemini is also available in 11.4m as Lothian have some.
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Post by Volvo on Jun 4, 2011 22:24:18 GMT
Yea but they do not mention that wrightbus website.
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Post by snowman on Jun 6, 2011 5:31:09 GMT
It seems strange to refurb VA63 when you consider its age and the fact the 220 is up for tender next year. Its not strange, its a Euro3 Bus and can stay in London even if London United do not retain the 220. Jamaal is correct Euro3 (with euro4 particulate traps) can stay More odd is that this is a centre staircase bus and I thought they weren't getting renewals, as TfL now specifies forward staircase buses (can anyone confirm ?) Not just the 220 up for renewal in 2012, also 27, 81, 120, 267 & school routes Maybe it is to replace one of the early VA Olympians in private hire fleet |
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