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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 6, 2011 12:35:11 GMT
I think the 27 and 267 will be existing if retained by LN like the 9 was. The 81 and part 120 still use old buses that I just dont think could be retained even if refurbed.
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Post by COBO on Jun 6, 2011 12:58:01 GMT
I think the 27 and 267 will be existing if retained by LN like the 9 was. The 81 and part 120 still use old buses that I just dont think could be retained even if refurbed. Your probably right about 27 and 267 being retained with existing buses. I predict, that if retained that the 120 and 222 will get new buses, if the 81 was retained it will gain the SPs from the 120 and if the 220 was retained it will gain partial new buses. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 6, 2011 15:20:15 GMT
another option may be that LU decide to go for a new bus altogether maybe E400's instead of the SP's and our old friend the 148 gets them and S garage get the new buses and the current 148 SP's move to AV for the 81 and part 120 with the others moving to part of the 220 (the other part may use TLA's). Just a thought if SP's are not availiable or LU have moved away from them.
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Post by COBO on Jun 6, 2011 15:42:43 GMT
another option may be that LU decide to go for a new bus altogether maybe E400's instead of the SP's and our old friend the 148 gets them and S garage get the new buses and the current 148 SP's move to AV for the 81 and part 120 with the others moving to part of the 220 (the other part may use TLA's). Just a thought if SP's are not availiable or LU have moved away from them. I have feeling that if LU are going to stop buying SP's that they may go for Volvo B9TL / Gemini 2's instead and they go to the 148 and the SPs will go to the 120 and the SPs on the 120 will go to 81. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 6, 2011 18:30:07 GMT
That is a possibility. Or with the large orders at ADL and Wright LU may decide to stick with SP's as they may manage to get some before 2012 and therefore will not have to upgrade the VA/VP's at AV aswell as making AV an all Scania garage.
Going to Wrights can be problematic as they have such large orders and are already popular with Go Ahead, First and Arrive aswell as Metroline who like to use them to standardise on all Volvo garages.
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Post by snowman on Jun 7, 2011 5:32:12 GMT
That is a possibility. Or with the large orders at ADL and Wright LU may decide to stick with SP's as they may manage to get some before 2012 and therefore will not have to upgrade the VA/VP's at AV aswell as making AV an all Scania garage. Going to Wrights can be problematic as they have such large orders and are already popular with Go Ahead, First and Arrive aswell as Metroline who like to use them to standardise on all Volvo garages. Not convinced that LU actually need new double decks before 2012. As far as I'm aware the Volvo B7TL ones are ok once upgraded particulates trap is fitted. Although some got withdrawn, LU have retained 16 of SK52xxx Volvo ALX400s, dont know details but I'm guessing leases have been extended to coincide with route 220 contract expiry in October 2012 (part of 220 now uses displaced TLAs) Think 8 of the VP Presidents have also been kept and the 3 VRs are still around. There are still loads of V and W reg VAs (VA60-104 range) at Hounslow. I think these are centre staircase so almost certain to get replaced next year. If they win the 406, I'm guessing TV wont want a new type, similarly FW isn't likely to take on B7TLs so expect TLAs or SPs to move to cover, concentrating engine types at a few garages each. My personal guess is that more SPs would only happen if it was a small top up batch, if it was replacement of VAs VPs, VRs (as above) then some new design seems likely. |
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Post by COBO on Jun 7, 2011 6:56:27 GMT
That is a possibility. Or with the large orders at ADL and Wright LU may decide to stick with SP's as they may manage to get some before 2012 and therefore will not have to upgrade the VA/VP's at AV aswell as making AV an all Scania garage. Going to Wrights can be problematic as they have such large orders and are already popular with Go Ahead, First and Arrive aswell as Metroline who like to use them to standardise on all Volvo garages. Not convinced that LU actually need new double decks before 2012. As far as I'm aware the Volvo B7TL ones are ok once upgraded particulates trap is fitted. Although some got withdrawn, LU have retained 16 of SK52xxx Volvo ALX400s, dont know details but I'm guessing leases have been extended to coincide with route 220 contract expiry in October 2012 (part of 220 now uses displaced TLAs) Think 8 of the VP Presidents have also been kept and the 3 VRs are still around. There are still loads of V and W reg VAs (VA60-104 range) at Hounslow. I think these are centre staircase so almost certain to get replaced next year. If they win the 406, I'm guessing TV wont want a new type, similarly FW isn't likely to take on B7TLs so expect TLAs or SPs to move to cover, concentrating engine types at a few garages each. My personal guess is that more SPs would only happen if it was a small top up batch, if it was replacement of VAs VPs, VRs (as above) then some new design seems likely. LU will probably get new buses to replace the V/W reg VAs / VPs because even though they are Euro 3 and can be upgraded they are middle stair case and TfL don't like them. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 7, 2011 15:42:46 GMT
plus the V/W reg VA/VPs would be too old for the contract renewals in 2012 so it may make sence to order new buses early for the contacts as opposed to upgrading them for only a cople of months use in London but the chance of getting new buses this side of 2012 when no order has been placed would be very small. Probably only Scania could manage it.
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Post by jamaal on Jun 7, 2011 21:33:39 GMT
plus the V/W reg VA/VPs would be too old for the contract renewals in 2012 so it may make sence to order new buses early for the contacts as opposed to upgrading them for only a cople of months use in London but the chance of getting new buses this side of 2012 when no order has been placed would be very small. Probably only Scania could manage it. Age does not come into the picture when it comes to London Buses. So long as the vehicle complies with the Euro status at the time, then it is legible to stay in London for as long as it likes. For example by the end of the 131 contract the TA's would have been 17 years old. The only reason London United would probably remove these V/W Reg VAs and VPs is because of the expiry of warranty cover after a certain amount of time and to look good in TFL's eyes. Also what would be the point in ordering new Buses early when they are not certain to retain those contracts? |
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Post by jay38a on Jun 7, 2011 21:52:44 GMT
plus the V/W reg VA/VPs would be too old for the contract renewals in 2012 so it may make sence to order new buses early for the contacts as opposed to upgrading them for only a cople of months use in London but the chance of getting new buses this side of 2012 when no order has been placed would be very small. Probably only Scania could manage it. Age does not come into the picture when it comes to London Buses. So long as the vehicle complies with the Euro status at the time, then it is legible to stay in London for as long as it likes. For example by the end of the 131 contract the TA's would have been 17 years old. The only reason London United would probably remove these V/W Reg VAs and VPs is because of the expiry of warranty cover after a certain amount of time and to look good in TFL's eyes. Also what would be the point in ordering new Buses early when they are not certain to retain those contracts? Sorry Jamaal, there is an age limit, the bus cannot be more then 17 years old by the time the possible 7 year contract ends, which the Abellio Tridents for the 172 will be when it ends or 15 years old if its only a 5 year contract and they don't get an extension. The W reg PVLs at BE will be right on the limit when the School contracts end in 2015. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 7, 2011 21:59:14 GMT
I thought the age limit was 15 years. The buses on the 131 are 51 reg meaning they were brought end of 2001/early 2002 and the contract end max 2017 so they may need replacing of a 2 year extension is given. Arent the buses on the 172 8 years old (53 reg) meaning they will be no more than 15 years old.
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Post by jay38a on Jun 7, 2011 22:26:00 GMT
I thought the age limit was 15 years. The buses on the 131 are 51 reg meaning they were brought end of 2001/early 2002 and the contract end max 2017 so they may need replacing of a 2 year extension is given. Arent the buses on the 172 8 years old (53 reg) meaning they will be no more than 15 years old. The 172 buses are 52 reg from January 2003, so will be just over 15 years old when the contract ends if the extension is granted. I wasnt 100% sure on the age limit, i thought it was either 15 or 17 years, but on reflection i now think your correct and its 15 years. |
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Post by jamaal on Jun 7, 2011 22:32:36 GMT
Ah right I see. Thanks for that guys.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 7, 2011 22:52:08 GMT
It's a little hard to guess what London United will order at the moment. Now Yellow Buses have received some B9TL Geminis which is no surprise given that they already operate a large number of Volvo B7TL's on Gemini & Vyking bodies and did have a large number of Volvo Citybus years ago. So using this logic, future London United orders could either be B9TL Geminis - would save RATP money on ordering in bulk like Go Ahead's recent order for London & Brighton & Hove Scania Omnicity DDs - keeps fleet standardised to one main type, plus no one is ordering any Omnicity DDs at the moment so should have no delays in delivering Of course, they may go for someone completely different  |
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Post by snowman on Jun 8, 2011 5:35:39 GMT
Age does not come into the picture when it comes to London Buses. So long as the vehicle complies with the Euro status at the time, then it is legible to stay in London for as long as it likes. For example by the end of the 131 contract the TA's would have been 17 years old. The only reason London United would probably remove these V/W Reg VAs and VPs is because of the expiry of warranty cover after a certain amount of time and to look good in TFL's eyes. Also what would be the point in ordering new Buses early when they are not certain to retain those contracts? Sorry Jamaal, there is an age limit, the bus cannot be more then 17 years old by the time the possible 7 year contract ends, which the Abellio Tridents for the 172 will be when it ends or 15 years old if its only a 5 year contract and they don't get an extension. The W reg PVLs at BE will be right on the limit when the School contracts end in 2015. If there is a 15 year old max rule (and there seems to be quite a debate on this) then is it ok to use initially buses on a route that would exceed this at end of contract, providing you replace them mid contract. There will be plenty of chances in next 3 or 4 years to replace fleet on 131, 172 and those school routes. All of those companies are likely to have a couple of dozen buses that are 2-3 years younger that become available from other routes getting new buses by 2014. |
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