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Post by dashing0ne on Jul 31, 2021 20:14:59 GMT
If I was betting man, I'd reckon the 49s buses will be swapped with the 125 batch, the order of which is further down the line and could potentially be modified to shorter versions. Just a hunch. But there lies the question of what covers in the interim Although it would be easy to change the length of a later batch, there is a disadvantage that the 10.3m versions have about 15% less range, would that cause problems ? 10.3m has 339 kWh battery vs 382 kWh in the 10.85m version The 49 isn't too long of a route (6 miles) so I think it would be feasible to have the 10.3m versions in action.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 31, 2021 21:02:06 GMT
Although it would be easy to change the length of a later batch, there is a disadvantage that the 10.3m versions have about 15% less range, would that cause problems ? 10.3m has 339 kWh battery vs 382 kWh in the 10.85m version The 49 isn't too long of a route (6 miles) so I think it would be feasible to have the 10.3m versions in action. It's not the length of route that is the issue.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 31, 2021 21:21:06 GMT
Although it would be easy to change the length of a later batch, there is a disadvantage that the 10.3m versions have about 15% less range, would that cause problems ? 10.3m has 339 kWh battery vs 382 kWh in the 10.85m version The 49 isn't too long of a route (6 miles) so I think it would be feasible to have the 10.3m versions in action. Do we even know yet thou what the capacity of the 10.3m one will be. By the time you add the battery at the rear and take off 60cm it may not even meet TfLs minimum requirement. Already the back row of seat and the seats in front have very low headroom (I'm 5'7" and forget and bang my head every time).
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Post by redexpress on Jul 31, 2021 21:24:58 GMT
The 49 isn't too long of a route (6 miles) so I think it would be feasible to have the 10.3m versions in action. Do we even know yet thou what the capacity of the 10.3m one will be. By the time you add the battery at the rear and take off 60cm it may not even meet TfLs minimum requirement. Already the back row of seat and the seats in front have very low headroom (I'm 5'7" and forget and bang my head every time). The 10.3m version was developed primarily for the London market - ADL said as much when the version was announced. So I assume they will have designed it to meet TfL's requirements.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 31, 2021 21:28:08 GMT
Although it would be easy to change the length of a later batch, there is a disadvantage that the 10.3m versions have about 15% less range, would that cause problems ? 10.3m has 339 kWh battery vs 382 kWh in the 10.85m version The 49 isn't too long of a route (6 miles) so I think it would be feasible to have the 10.3m versions in action. Can you please explain the logic behind that statement.
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 31, 2021 21:40:14 GMT
I'm not surprised, the left turn from Gloucester Road onto Stanhope Gardens, the already mentioned left onto Sydney Place from Fulham Road and the right turn from Sydney Street onto Fulham Road have been tight for all sizes on the 49 with it being common for a bus to mount the kerb on these turns. There's a case for the left turn onto Beaufort Street from King's Road although the LTs on the 19 seem to manage. I can relate to that as it was tight enough at times with the Metros, even more so with the VCs. Adding to those areas there's also the left turn from Battersea Rise into Saint Johns Road during heavy traffic, although moving the stop line back can help ease that situation if need be for the BCEs. Even in more recent years they didn't use TLAs on the route because of an issue somewhere, although I have no idea where it was. SPs had a shorter wheelbase (even if the overall length was similar), so those were fine. Having said that, it did have DPs for 5 years and their wheelbase was long too 🤔 Edit: Just remembered that BCEs have an absolutely massive wheelbase for a bus of that length, so that may by the problem.
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Post by YX10FFN on Jul 31, 2021 22:00:30 GMT
Been so much speculation mixed in with confirmed information over the last few pages so I'm rather confused. Can someone confirm as to if the 49 will actually receive its ordered buses on first day?
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Post by Busboy105 on Jul 31, 2021 22:10:28 GMT
Been so much speculation mixed in with confirmed information over the last few pages so I'm rather confused. Can someone confirm as to if the 49 will actually receive its ordered buses on first day? Haven't some BCEs arrived already?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 31, 2021 22:24:35 GMT
If I was betting man, I'd reckon the 49s buses will be swapped with the 125 batch, the order of which is further down the line and could potentially be modified to shorter versions. Just a hunch. But there lies the question of what covers in the interim Although it would be easy to change the length of a later batch, there is a disadvantage that the 10.3m versions have about 15% less range, would that cause problems ? 10.3m has 339 kWh battery vs 382 kWh in the 10.85m version Wouldn't the 10.3m bus be lighter and therefore less power would be needed to move the bus, meaning the decrease won't directly correlate to a decrease in battery size.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 31, 2021 23:06:50 GMT
I can relate to that as it was tight enough at times with the Metros, even more so with the VCs. Adding to those areas there's also the left turn from Battersea Rise into Saint Johns Road during heavy traffic, although moving the stop line back can help ease that situation if need be for the BCEs. Even in more recent years they didn't use TLAs on the route because of an issue somewhere, although I have no idea where it was. SPs had a shorter wheelbase (even if the overall length was similar), so those were fine. Having said that, it did have DPs for 5 years and their wheelbase was long too 🤔 Edit: Just remembered that BCEs have an absolutely massive wheelbase for a bus of that length, so that may by the problem. Don't forget in regards to Omnicity DD's, the overhang was usually the reason a route would fail such as the 99 so presumably, the Omnicity literally just passed it's route test whilst the shorter TLA probably didn't have as good steering or something as that shouldn't be an issue otherwise.
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Post by snowman on Aug 1, 2021 5:10:20 GMT
Although it would be easy to change the length of a later batch, there is a disadvantage that the 10.3m versions have about 15% less range, would that cause problems ? 10.3m has 339 kWh battery vs 382 kWh in the 10.85m version Wouldn't the 10.3m bus be lighter and therefore less power would be needed to move the bus, meaning the decrease won't directly correlate to a decrease in battery size. Yes, but it’s quite complicated calculation It’s 11% less battery, but bit lighter, so about 9% overall But no one uses a theoretical range, as that is at a specific temperature and traffic dependant, so normal practice is to use about 75-80% of range as a real world range, so ends up something like 15 miles less in theory, 22 miles less in real world
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Post by snowman on Aug 1, 2021 5:30:56 GMT
Been so much speculation mixed in with confirmed information over the last few pages so I'm rather confused. Can someone confirm as to if the 49 will actually receive its ordered buses on first day? Haven't some BCEs arrived already? Yes, I think 4 have arrived so far (out of something like 127 BCEs) Last I heard these were going to be used for driver familarisation, with others being held back at BYD site at Iver ahead of taking over the 49 and X140 contract on 4th September. However these were ordered against Fulwell routes 65 and 281 and part 371 (which have already started their new contracts 4 weeks ago) but will only convert when sufficient buses arrive (likely to be Oct-Nov) Going back to 49, if the BCEs don’t fit, it is possible that other hybrids will be temporarily swapped in, might not be VHs (as they have long rear overhang so might not fit either), which leaves the ADHs. I am sure some form of internal RATP fleet swap around would be preferable to hiring in buses.
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Post by dashing0ne on Aug 1, 2021 6:36:21 GMT
Haven't some BCEs arrived already? Yes, I think 4 have arrived so far (out of something like 127 BCEs) Last I heard these were going to be used for driver familarisation, with others being held back at BYD site at Iver ahead of taking over the 49 and X140 contract on 4th September. However these were ordered against Fulwell routes 65 and 281 and part 371 (which have already started their new contracts 4 weeks ago) but will only convert when sufficient buses arrive (likely to be Oct-Nov) Going back to 49, if the BCEs don’t fit, it is possible that other hybrids will be temporarily swapped in, might not be VHs (as they have long rear overhang so might not fit either), which leaves the ADHs. I am sure some form of internal RATP fleet swap around would be preferable to hiring in buses. If the BCE's don't fit on the 49 they can't be in service on the 49, pretty clear. ADH's will definetly fit but VH's might not, just speculation. Hypothetically speaking, the LT's meant to go on the 111 would not come, with the contract finished by its current SP's. The LT's would go to V, which is a common type and will not require driver training or if required very little, to free ADH's from the E3, which has a nearly exact PVR (PVR:20) and the 49 has a (PVR:21), will go on the 49; I checked a reliable fleet list which states there are 22 ADH's at V, so there are enough for the 49, with a PVR of 21. When buses for the 49, that are suitable, arrive the LT's go elsewhere. Only problem here is that with the ADH's is that they are quite unreliable and there won't be enough spares to cover, so perhaps they could, if needed, snatch off, a few ADH's from AV with them being covered by spare SP's. In an emergancy, RATP can always loan or even partially loan the suitable and current buses from Abellio. Suprised this was not mentioned but I heard talk on this and other forums that if electric buses are not avalibale on new electric contracts, their incumbent contract may be extended and when electrics arrive the new contract begins, so maybe Abellio will get some extra time.
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Post by DT 11 on Aug 1, 2021 6:49:42 GMT
Seen posted in a few other places the 49 can't take 10.9m BCEs, does anyone have further information on whether this is the case? Might be worth an FOI. Surely a route test would have been done prior to order!? This is what Go Ahead London have been doing to every route before even making any orders. Hence Route 200 getting MEs. S have ran the route before so quite surprised an order was placed for 10.9m vehicles. Guess they have a plan in motion already then.
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andyc
Conductor
Posts: 119
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Post by andyc on Aug 1, 2021 8:50:15 GMT
Might be worth an FOI. Surely a route test would have been done prior to order!? This is what Go Ahead London have been doing to every route before even making any orders. Hence Route 200 getting MEs. S have ran the route before so quite surprised an order was placed for 10.9m vehicles. Guess they have a plan in motion already then. and this is what RATP do before ordering any vehicles as well - Hence the H9/H10 and 398 getting 10.2m BMEs and not 10.9m BEs.
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