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Post by DW221 on Nov 25, 2024 18:23:01 GMT
Overall these “cowboy operator” comments tend to make me laugh because yes while we are all allowed to have preferences for different operators, if an operator was truly “cowboy” enough then surely they wouldn’t be operating in London? I just find it a bit silly to be honest. I dont buy any of the sort at all Like I said we all have preferences. In fact I’m not a massive fan of GAL / TUK nowdays for example but I can recognise they operate lots of routes well and can provide quality service for millions per year. I’m defintely no RATP fan ethier but in general I think praticular operators get bashed all the time like its a game, the 2 prime examples being RATP & Arriva which just becomes silly sometimes especially as it just can feel like whatever RATP or Arriva do is bad but when other operators do the same thing theres almost silence… I also remember the countless comments of the past and they probably still happen of RATP selling off.. yeah right.. Considering they still won a big route this year and retained their 3 year contracted routes on better terms we can all agree they arent going anywhere regardless of if we like them or not… Isn't this what people said about TT winning the 135 just for them to sell up within a week when they took it over? To be honest I’m not sure how many people were calling TT a cowboy operator but I’m sure it was less than RATP. TT operated their routes generally OK imo but were definitely better presentation wise Tbh for TT they were a small operator than compared to RATP so their losses over the the last couple years of them operating probably had a massive long term impact on them that wasn’t properly apparent until they sold up completely. I think many people were surprised they gained the 135 and 678 though lol |
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Post by TB123 on Nov 25, 2024 18:24:38 GMT
And TUK....... well according to one of their own staff. It's just a phrase that has no definitive meaning. It will be interesting to see what happens to TUK if the current government choose to renationalise rail lines. Although most aren’t highly profitable it must still make a key and significant part of their profit/loss sheet. Choose to nationalise? It’s awaiting Royal Assent. It has passed the commons and Lords. It is - very much - when, not if and happening. TUK are paid a basic management fee for their TOCs and indeed I believe all three of theirs are making a profit and in the case of Anglia a premium to the DfT. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get into buses in a much bigger way - I know they are very interested in Merseyside franchising |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 25, 2024 18:37:37 GMT
It will be interesting to see what happens to TUK if the current government choose to renationalise rail lines. Although most aren’t highly profitable it must still make a key and significant part of their profit/loss sheet. Choose to nationalise? It’s awaiting Royal Assent. It has passed the commons and Lords. It is - very much - when, not if and happening. TUK are paid a basic management fee for their TOCs and indeed I believe all three of theirs are making a profit and in the case of Anglia a premium to the DfT. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get into buses in a much bigger way - I know they are very interested in Merseyside franchising Renationalise as in operate themselves or choose to go for a TfL style Elizabeth Line contract, which is still a possibility. There is also the RRP contracts they hold, will the DfT decide to take the management of those in house as well or will the contracts remain in place? Who knows at this stage. |
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Post by TB123 on Nov 25, 2024 18:39:50 GMT
Choose to nationalise? It’s awaiting Royal Assent. It has passed the commons and Lords. It is - very much - when, not if and happening. TUK are paid a basic management fee for their TOCs and indeed I believe all three of theirs are making a profit and in the case of Anglia a premium to the DfT. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get into buses in a much bigger way - I know they are very interested in Merseyside franchising Renationalise as in operate themselves or choose to go for a TfL style Elizabeth Line contract, which is still a possibility. There is also the RRP contracts they hold, will the DfT decide to take the management of those in house as well or will the contracts remain in place? Who knows at this stage. Read the legislation. Private operators will not be permitted to operate GBR services, they will be owned and operated directly by GBR/DfT/Govt - there was much lobbying by private operators for Elizabeth Line style contracts, but to no avail. Personally, I think it’s disappointing TfL have not bought operation of the Lizzie Line in-house. No obvious mention of rail replacement services but I can’t help but wonder if they’d get better economies of scale procuring a national contract with sub-contracting as appropriate. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 25, 2024 18:51:51 GMT
Renationalise as in operate themselves or choose to go for a TfL style Elizabeth Line contract, which is still a possibility. There is also the RRP contracts they hold, will the DfT decide to take the management of those in house as well or will the contracts remain in place? Who knows at this stage. Read the legislation. Private operators will not be permitted to operate GBR services, they will be owned and operated directly by GBR/DfT/Govt - there was much lobbying by private operators for Elizabeth Line style contracts, but to no avail. Personally, I think it’s disappointing TfL have not bought operation of the Lizzie Line in-house. No obvious mention of rail replacement services but I can’t help but wonder if they’d get better economies of scale procuring a national contract with sub-contracting as appropriate. Since you are clearly an expert with too much time on their hands I will leave it to you to summarise. I don’t think there is anything wrong with private companies operating rail routes providing they are held to high level of scrutiny, contract terms are airtight and there are robust financial penalties in place. Who will hold GBR properly accountable if it’s running trains late or there are no staff or strikes over inflation busting pay as it is likely to increase again steadily towards the end of the financial year and likely into next? We all know government departments, civil servants and public sector workers are held to a far lower standard of accountability than private sector ones. |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 25, 2024 19:03:40 GMT
I think the last thing everybody wants is to continue listening to your dribble and waffle Waffling? I think the waffler here is the company talks of improvements, but is yet to produced any to this day. Words don't mean anything until action is conducted. Unless the only success of they will define is an 'Arriva level' of success by abounding sections, caring little about users for the sake of performance targets. As I said before, I won't shut up until my services are up to standard. Quite frankly, the only ones who seem irritated by my comments are those who seem to form some "RATP Defence League" regardless as many times members post feedback on their routes. TFL have told operators to curtail services with 30% going the if there are severe delays on a route. The forums favourite operators however never get criticised however… |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 25, 2024 19:07:07 GMT
Waffling? I think the waffler here is the company talks of improvements, but is yet to produced any to this day. Words don't mean anything until action is conducted. Unless the only success of they will define is an 'Arriva level' of success by abounding sections, caring little about users for the sake of performance targets. As I said before, I won't shut up until my services are up to standard. Quite frankly, the only ones who seem irritated by my comments are those who seem to form some "RATP Defence League" regardless as many times members post feedback on their routes. TFL have told operators to curtail services at 30% if there are severe delays. The forums favourite operators however never get criticised however… Maybe because most people have the common sense to realise that most turns and gaps are largely beyond individual operators capabilities. Also most people just do the actual correct thing and lodge complaints with TfL rather than on a forum where so little could be done. |
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Post by PGAT on Nov 25, 2024 19:10:26 GMT
TFL have told operators to curtail services at 30% if there are severe delays. The forums favourite operators however never get criticised however… Maybe because most people have the common sense to realise that most turns and gaps are largely beyond individual operators capabilities. Also most people just do the actual correct thing and lodge complaints with TfL rather than on a forum where so little could be done. Nobody complains on the forum with the objective of that solving the issue. People do it to vent or make a point |
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Post by southlondon413 on Nov 25, 2024 19:12:36 GMT
Maybe because most people have the common sense to realise that most turns and gaps are largely beyond individual operators capabilities. Also most people just do the actual correct thing and lodge complaints with TfL rather than on a forum where so little could be done. Nobody complains on the forum with the objective of that solving the issue. People do it to vent or make a point True, either way most people hold the common sense to know they cannot change traffic conditions or incidents on route. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 25, 2024 19:17:56 GMT
In relation to these "cowboy operator" comments, maybe that is not the right way to describe RATP, but would this not be a perfect description of Sullivan Buses. I don't think that is a particularly unreasonable view to hold.... Sorry but I do. That's not to say the TfL operations of Sullivans went downhill massively but a cowboy operator is in my mind, an operator compromising safety like an operator who ignores serious safety defects (serious to the point of wheels and other parts coming off whilst in service), an operator who employed a rag tag of drivers and failed to monitor them to the point drivers were allowing children to sit on the dashboard. Now if anyone can find where Sullivan Buses compromised safety or led dangerous practices, then I'm happy to revisit but there are levels IMO especially when compared to the horror stories I've read and heard about from the provinces. |
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Post by DT 11 on Nov 25, 2024 19:20:42 GMT
Maybe because most people have the common sense to realise that most turns and gaps are largely beyond individual operators capabilities. Also most people just do the actual correct thing and lodge complaints with TfL rather than on a forum where so little could be done. Nobody complains on the forum with the objective of that solving the issue. People do it to vent or make a point Agreed. Overall not naming and shaming operators or routes but some routes are absolutely horrible wherever they end up, the 202 for example any problem that occurs on the South Circular causing any sort of delays it is game over everything is getting turned to Blackheath Village or Lee Green. I would say the 202 is the worst route for traffic I’ve driven. 157 another route I would say has gone downhill it is frequently curtailed to Anerley Station but goes unnoticed however has got better since an extra bus was added as previously it was Norwood Junction the operator removed a bus from the route so hardly shocking… There have been occasions when I’m in Catford & Seen countless 75s & 185s curtailed to Catford, Town Centre due to severe delays. The 171 however I would say has remarkably improved over the years as this was a regular route to be turned at Catford, Town Centre. |
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Post by WH241 on Nov 25, 2024 20:14:41 GMT
Overall these “cowboy operator” comments tend to make me laugh because yes while we are all allowed to have preferences for different operators, if an operator was truly “cowboy” enough then surely they wouldn’t be operating in London? I just find it a bit silly to be honest. I dont buy any of the sort at all Like I said we all have preferences. In fact I’m not a massive fan of GAL / TUK nowdays for example but I can recognise they operate lots of routes well and can provide quality service for millions per year. I’m defintely no RATP fan ethier but in general I think praticular operators get bashed all the time like its a game, the 2 prime examples being RATP & Arriva which just becomes silly sometimes especially as it just can feel like whatever RATP or Arriva do is bad but when other operators do the same thing theres almost silence… I also remember the countless comments of the past and they probably still happen of RATP selling off.. yeah right.. Considering they still won a big route this year and retained their 3 year contracted routes on better terms we can all agree they arent going anywhere regardless of if we like them or not… Isn't this what people said about TT winning the 135 just for them to sell up within a week when they took it over? Operators can and do sell up at any time. I am pretty sure Stagecoach were still bidding and winning work up to when they left London in 2006. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Nov 25, 2024 20:17:34 GMT
I don't think that is a particularly unreasonable view to hold.... Sorry but I do. That's not to say the TfL operations of Sullivans went downhill massively but a cowboy operator is in my mind, an operator compromising safety like an operator who ignores serious safety defects (serious to the point of wheels and other parts coming off whilst in service), an operator who employed a rag tag of drivers and failed to monitor them to the point drivers were allowing children to sit on the dashboard. Now if anyone can find where Sullivan Buses compromised safety or led dangerous practices, then I'm happy to revisit but there are levels IMO especially when compared to the horror stories I've read and heard about from the provinces. Even Centra I wouldn't call cowboys but more out of their depth but their intentions were good. Harrow buses sounds a bunch of cowboys but that was pre the full privatisation. |
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Post by TB123 on Nov 25, 2024 20:29:35 GMT
Isn't this what people said about TT winning the 135 just for them to sell up within a week when they took it over? Operators can and do sell up at any time. I am pretty sure Stagecoach were still bidding and winning work up to when they left London in 2006. Indeed they won the 61 and 273 from First both of which used Stagecoach-specified vehicles though were operated by ELBG |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 25, 2024 21:57:03 GMT
Isn't this what people said about TT winning the 135 just for them to sell up within a week when they took it over? Operators can and do sell up at any time. I am pretty sure Stagecoach were still bidding and winning work up to when they left London in 2006. If you read the original post I quoted, one random win does not mean a sudden resurgence of an operator. |
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