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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 3, 2024 9:25:30 GMT
I do wonder if the shut down was planned for yesterday in advance even if drivers were not told? Is it sheer coincident that services finished on a Friday and new tenders / change of operators happen on a Saturday? The reason I say this is the press release made mention of agreeing a date back in June.
Can I ask what the 718 and 720 routes are? I assume long term rail replacement but not sure where they run?
I'm not sure about it being planned in advance of Friday by Sullivans, but the whole debacle feels more like someone throwing their toys out of the pram. if the cessation of TfL work had been planned a more structured handing back could have been set up, rather then schedulers and planners getting phone calls on Friday evening to cobble together what they can for the next day. Whilst TfL doesn't exactly come up smelling of roses with all of this, the actions of Sullivans is poor at best. |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 3, 2024 9:40:09 GMT
I do wonder if the shut down was planned for yesterday in advance even if drivers were not told? Is it sheer coincident that services finished on a Friday and new tenders / change of operators happen on a Saturday? The reason I say this is the press release made mention of agreeing a date back in June.
Can I ask what the 718 and 720 routes are? I assume long term rail replacement but not sure where they run?
I'm not sure about it being planned in advance of Friday by Sullivans, but the whole debacle feels more like someone throwing their toys out of the pram. if the cessation of TfL work had been planned a more structured handing back could have been set up, rather then schedulers and planners getting phone calls on Friday evening to cobble together what they can for the next day. Whilst TfL doesn't exactly come up smelling of roses with all of this, the actions of Sullivans is poor at best. Poor but what are they supposed to do continue running at a loss and then bankrupt the entire company ? From a business perspective if your running at a loss with no help from tfl ( not that they have to help but they claim to be an ethical operation) then there comes a point where you say enough is enough I guess , Sullivan's aren't new to this they've operated tfl routes since 2002 so this issue and terrible operation of routes must be a recent thing I'm imagining not helped by costs rising and COVID I Just hope the employed tfl contracted drivers/staff get some sort of renumeration for loss of jobs and hopefully the agency staff get work with the new operators . |
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dace2
Driver
I like vehicles. Buses, trains, cars, all of them. I made a song out of Stagecoach too.
Posts: 287
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Post by dace2 on Aug 3, 2024 9:42:56 GMT
This photo is too funny to see and is sad to see Sullivan Buses going. |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 3, 2024 10:05:30 GMT
Can't say I'm surprised the writing was on the wall for several years now. A sad los. Surprised that a bigger operator like Metroline didn't take all Sullivan tfl bus routes and take their buses. The buses are owned by Sullivan's. You can't just take them. |
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Post by COBO on Aug 3, 2024 10:32:17 GMT
Can't say I'm surprised the writing was on the wall for several years now. A sad los. Surprised that a bigger operator like Metroline didn't take all Sullivan tfl bus routes and take their buses. The buses are owned by Sullivan's. You can't just take them. What about borrow them until Metroline can find enough spare buses they own? |
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 3, 2024 10:37:52 GMT
The buses are owned by Sullivan's. You can't just take them. What about borrow them until Metroline can find enough spare buses they own? They could maybe hire them, but would require some form of commercial agreement between Sullivan's and the operator. Sullivan's are under no obligation to do it if they want to use a more modern fleet on their commercial network. |
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Post by Lukeo on Aug 3, 2024 10:51:23 GMT
Just received the following update from TfL: |
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Post by TA1 on Aug 3, 2024 10:57:57 GMT
Just received the following update from TfL: The latest update is that a full service, provided by RATP will be from 17:00. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Aug 3, 2024 11:11:04 GMT
If you go to the TfL website and check the status of any of the affected routes, you get this message
Routes 217 298 299 327 389 399 549 W9 may be subject to journey cancellations due to an operator ceasing bus operations in London.
This is unhelpfully less informative than the two emails TfL sent me last night, which said
The operator of bus routes 217, 298, 299, 327, 549 and W9 has withdrawn from running TfL Bus services in London, and as a result there will be an impact to these services from Saturday 3 August until further notice. We are planning to run as many services as possible, but please allow more time for your journey.
The operator of bus routes 389 and 399 has withdrawn from running TfL Bus services in London, and as a result we will be unable to operate these services from Saturday 3 August until further notice.
The following service statuses subsequently added (never too late TfL!): Also -- but since disappeared -- there was a mention about a service resuming on W9 from 12 noon. |
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Post by mb171 on Aug 3, 2024 11:35:33 GMT
well, it's sad for Sullivans that they have disappeared from London operations, however this is certainly an interesting time in the London transport industry.
I'm not from North London myself, i'm from the opposite end but what I can say is that seeing Stagecoach London around the Enfield area is interesting to see.
217 to Arriva is interesting, I also predicted that 327 would shift to PB.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 3, 2024 11:53:43 GMT
With just 7 operators on London bus services, this is easily the fewest since 1986.
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 3, 2024 12:34:43 GMT
With just 7 operators on London bus services, this is easily the fewest since 1986. It occurs to me that a similar situation has emerged in Greater Manchester, and has the potential to occur in other areas where franchising is rolled out: the virtual demise of the SME (Small to Medium-size Enterprise) operator. We have been here before, of course. The 1960s and 1970s were also a very challenging time for bus operators. With the sell-out of the BET Group to the Govenment and the subsequent creation of the National Bus Company in 1969, and the creation of Passenger Transport Executives in the new Metropolitan Counties between 1968 and 1974, many smaller independents chose simply to sell out, either to the NBC or the local PTE. And not just independents; the municipal operators in Luton and Exeter also sold out to the NBC in 1970. Going further back, the London Transport Act of 1933 allowed the newly-created London Passenger Transport Board to eliminate all competing bus operators in London (and a considerable chunk of the Home Counties) virtually overnight, by using its powers of Compulsory Purchase to buy them out (as they also did with the Metropolitan Railway and the London County Council trams). Some operators used their windfall from Compulsory Purchase to set up as private coach companies instead, such as Empress of Bethnal Green who had been competing with London General on route 8. Empress is still trading but has now moved its operations out of the London area. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 3, 2024 13:33:49 GMT
I hope drivers were made aware this morning or yesterday and are not finding out while driving. I can see some services running horribly until midnight (bunching, drivers not following schedule) Unfortunately staff weren't made aware until yesterday. Some drivers spotted that their TfL driving duties were taken off the system, a text message was sent to staff directly employed by Sullivans that read "Please note as of Saturday 03rd August sullivan buses are no longer driving tfl routes so please do not come to work" (this is copied letter by letter, including the capitalisation and grammar), no thank you or any further details or anything. A staff letter was later sent out with more information. Agency staff (myself included) received zero information whatsoever (and still haven't today), we only found out from a screenshot of a message from Dean in "Sullivan Buses fan club" on Facebook. (No official information on website or socials for ages, seems the fan club group was the most important to update rather than customers!). Not to mention they haven't paid the agency wages for some months now... Regarding the whole press release, Sullivans have made it sound like TfL are entirely to blame. However there was a reason TfL weren't paying the money, and most of the issues were caused by themselves. They have underfunded maintenance, it's a toxic environment due to certain managers so staff retention is awful (and they have a reputatuon with certain driving agencies so drivers won't even take the work at a decent rate due to condition of the buses and managers), and the general management and operation of the business is not good. Surprised VOSA haven't been around, especially with the amount of issues reported that staff are told "are fine" and to "carry on". They've really got an issue when they have 0 available Euro 6 buses (commercial or TfL single or double deckers) for a small PVR rail job on a Sunday at 10am |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 3, 2024 13:36:16 GMT
With just 7 operators on London bus services, this is easily the fewest since 1986. It occurs to me that a similar situation has emerged in Greater Manchester, and has the potential to occur in other areas where franchising is rolled out: the virtual demise of the SME operator. We have been here before, of course. The 1960s and 1970s were also a very challenging time for bus operators. With the sell-out of the BET Group to the Govenment and the subsequent creation of the National Bus Company in 1969, and the creation of Passenger Transport Executives in the new Metropolitan Counties between 1968 and 1974, many smaller independents chose simply to sell out, either to the NBC or the local PTE. And not just independents; the municipal operators in Luton and Exeter also sold out to the NBC in 1970. Going further back, the London Transport Act of 1933 allowed the newly-created London Passenger Transport Board to eliminate all competing bus operators in London (and a considerable chunk of the Home Counties) virtually overnight, by using its powers of Compulsory Purchase to buy them out (as they also did with the Metropolitan Railway and the London County Council trams). Some operators used their windfall from Compulsory Purchase to set up as private coach companies instead, such as Empress of Bethnal Green who had been competing with London General on route 8. Empress is still trading but has now moved its operations out of the London area. Empress have operated from various places across London, can remember when they moved to the coach yard under the DLR viaduct between Greenwich and Deptford Bridge. I think SMEs can exist in the tendered world, many across the country survive on local authority contract services. I pretty sure Vision Bus in Greater Manchester have picked up some of the GM school contracts, which on top of rail work should keep them going. An SME could exist in London, operating some of the smaller contracted routes- in my area routes like the 362, 346 and 347 would be ideal for a smaller company. However, any company in London regardless of their size need to meet the expectation of their customer (in this instance TfL.) There's also a good proportion of drivers who would prefer to drive for a smaller, locally owned company like Blue Triangle (when it was independent,) Trustline, Red Route etc. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 3, 2024 13:36:36 GMT
I did enjoy doing work for Sullivans, and quite a few of the regular staff were great to work with, however unfortunately this wasn't enough to keep the operation going
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