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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 3, 2024 13:47:14 GMT
I did enjoy doing work for Sullivans, and quite a few of the regular staff were great to work with, however unfortunately this wasn't enough to keep the operation going I always found many of the drivers at smaller companies to be absolutely brilliant to work with. Working with a number of subcontractors across London, there was always a family atmosphere amongst all the smaller operators and amongst the regular drivers from different companies- you would often see the regular drivers from Blue Triangle, Trustline, Redroute etc having breaks together and catching up with each other during stand time. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 3, 2024 13:55:10 GMT
I do wonder if the shut down was planned for yesterday in advance even if drivers were not told? Is it sheer coincident that services finished on a Friday and new tenders / change of operators happen on a Saturday? The reason I say this is the press release made mention of agreeing a date back in June.
Can I ask what the 718 and 720 routes are? I assume long term rail replacement but not sure where they run?
I'm not sure about it being planned in advance of Friday by Sullivans, but the whole debacle feels more like someone throwing their toys out of the pram. if the cessation of TfL work had been planned a more structured handing back could have been set up, rather then schedulers and planners getting phone calls on Friday evening to cobble together what they can for the next day. Whilst TfL doesn't exactly come up smelling of roses with all of this, the actions of Sullivans is poor at best. Similar to how when RAPT/Quality Line decided to close Epsom garage. There was a good few weeks notice that the 413/463/S1 were moving to Go Ahead and a decision was made on what vehicles (OM/WS) were going and what was staying. |
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Post by VMH2537 on Aug 3, 2024 14:32:32 GMT
There are some TfL staff wearing high pink vests informing users of the disruption. One was seen at Southgate.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 3, 2024 14:39:01 GMT
Do we have an early picture of what vehicles are being used on each route (minus 327 & 389/399 which aren't running currently)? Noticed HA15 has been spotted on the 217, a few 61 reg SE's on the 299 but what else is being used on those routes currently as well as the 298, 549 & W9?
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Post by RM1_Enthusiast on Aug 3, 2024 14:45:25 GMT
Do we have an early picture of what vehicles are being used on each route (minus 327 & 389/399 which aren't running currently)? Noticed HA15 has been spotted on the 217, a few 61 reg SE's on the 299 but what else is being used on those routes currently as well as the 298, 549 & W9? 1501, 605, 1478 and 1486 are spotted on the 298, 37757 is spotted on W9 and HV329 is also spotted on 217 |
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Post by RM1_Enthusiast on Aug 3, 2024 14:46:58 GMT
It’s sad to see Sullivans go off the TfL network, last independent operator in the TfL network gone!
I have never gotten the chance to ride their buses but I do wish them further success in their commercial routes in Hertfordshire!
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Post by busoccultation on Aug 3, 2024 14:54:58 GMT
Do we have an early picture of what vehicles are being used on each route (minus 327 & 389/399 which aren't running currently)? Noticed HA15 has been spotted on the 217, a few 61 reg SE's on the 299 but what else is being used on those routes currently as well as the 298, 549 & W9? In terms of the allocations used today on the 217, 298, 299, 327 & W9. 217 is using a mix of HA's and HV's today with HA15, HA18, HV167, HV329, HV356 & HV357 seen on the route so far. 298 has a varied run out with a E400 1486 (Ex RATP ADE40457), Scania 1501 (Ex RATP SP40192), E400 MMC 1478 (Ex TT DH38501) and a 383 branded short E200 605. 299 is fully 10.2m YX61 SE's transferred from South London in form of SE148/149/167/169/172. 327 using a DEM from PB which DEM1353 is the bus used on the route today. W9 is using a 9.7m E200/MMC fleet from HK & AW with 37721, 37744 & 37757 being the first few buses out on the route. |
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Post by LK65EBO on Aug 3, 2024 15:06:48 GMT
Do we have an early picture of what vehicles are being used on each route (minus 327 & 389/399 which aren't running currently)? Noticed HA15 has been spotted on the 217, a few 61 reg SE's on the 299 but what else is being used on those routes currently as well as the 298, 549 & W9? There's a DE currently on route learning journeys on the 327. |
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Post by VWH1419 on Aug 3, 2024 15:12:48 GMT
Do we have an early picture of what vehicles are being used on each route (minus 327 & 389/399 which aren't running currently)? Noticed HA15 has been spotted on the 217, a few 61 reg SE's on the 299 but what else is being used on those routes currently as well as the 298, 549 & W9? In terms of the allocations used today on the 217, 298, 299, 327 & W9. 217 is using a mix of HA's and HV's today with HA15, HA18, HV167, HV329, HV356 & HV357 seen on the route so far. 298 has a varied run out with a E400 1486 (Ex RATP ADE40457), Scania 1501 (Ex RATP SP40192), E400 MMC 1478 (Ex TT DH38501) and a 383 branded short E200 605. 299 is fully 10.2m YX61 SE's transferred from South London in form of SE148/149/167/169/172. 327 using a DEM from PB as far as I'm aware. W9 is using a 9.7m E200/MMC fleet from HK & AW with 37721, 37744 & 37757 being the first few buses out on the route. Sounds like most of observations already done. Will be visiting Barnet today (only one of few good cinemas in area of North London 😉) and seeing those routes not run by Sullivan will feel weird for sure. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 3, 2024 16:14:14 GMT
I did enjoy doing work for Sullivans, and quite a few of the regular staff were great to work with, however unfortunately this wasn't enough to keep the operation going I always found many of the drivers at smaller companies to be absolutely brilliant to work with. Working with a number of subcontractors across London, there was always a family atmosphere amongst all the smaller operators and amongst the regular drivers from different companies- you would often see the regular drivers from Blue Triangle, Trustline, Redroute etc having breaks together and catching up with each other during stand time. Some of the staff were absolutely brilliant. There was a driver who I would chat with over a Spoons breakfast whenever we were on the same job and our meal breaks aligned for example. You could have a laugh with many of the regulars, and they never had an issue when asked for a favour etc. |
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 3, 2024 16:14:54 GMT
There are some TfL staff wearing high pink vests informing users of the disruption. One was seen at Southgate. Would those not be the TIL customer assistants for the Piccadilly Line rail replacement? |
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 3, 2024 16:19:20 GMT
Do we have an early picture of what vehicles are being used on each route (minus 327 & 389/399 which aren't running currently)? Noticed HA15 has been spotted on the 217, a few 61 reg SE's on the 299 but what else is being used on those routes currently as well as the 298, 549 & W9? In terms of the allocations used today on the 217, 298, 299, 327 & W9. 217 is using a mix of HA's and HV's today with HA15, HA18, HV167, HV329, HV356 & HV357 seen on the route so far. 298 has a varied run out with a E400 1486 (Ex RATP ADE40457), Scania 1501 (Ex RATP SP40192), E400 MMC 1478 (Ex TT DH38501) and a 383 branded short E200 605. 299 is fully 10.2m YX61 SE's transferred from South London in form of SE148/149/167/169/172. 327 using a DEM from PB as far as I'm aware. W9 is using a 9.7m E200/MMC fleet from HK & AW with 37721, 37744 & 37757 being the first few buses out on the route. Nearly other London operator has now ended up involved, with the only exception being Transport UK. While they would be too far to consider helping with any of Sullivan's regular routes, Abellio have previously run Bakerloo line rail replacement (which I don't think has been covered today?) Interestingly, the buses that have been used on most routes won't be that different to those under Sullivan. The W9's MMCs are very similar to the ex-HCT examples, both having the gold/red TFL interior. And the 217 has been using some HAs, which also have a very similar interior to the MMCs it had been allocated before. The SEs on the 299 won't seem that different to the 61reg AEs that largely covered the allocation recently. While the 298 has seen a mix of E200s, E400s and Scanias, no different from usual. Also the 327 had previously been allocated the ex-Metroline Streetlite demonstrator, and Sullivan often used the Thorpe Park E200s on the 720 (which are ex-RATP). |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 3, 2024 16:38:26 GMT
I hope drivers were made aware this morning or yesterday and are not finding out while driving. I can see some services running horribly until midnight (bunching, drivers not following schedule) Unfortunately staff weren't made aware until yesterday. Some drivers spotted that their TfL driving duties were taken off the system, a text message was sent to staff directly employed by Sullivans that read "Please note as of Saturday 03rd August sullivan buses are no longer driving tfl routes so please do not come to work" (this is copied letter by letter, including the capitalisation and grammar), no thank you or any further details or anything. A staff letter was later sent out with more information. Agency staff (myself included) received zero information whatsoever (and still haven't today), we only found out from a screenshot of a message from Dean in "Sullivan Buses fan club" on Facebook. (No official information on website or socials for ages, seems the fan club group was the most important to update rather than customers!). Not to mention they haven't paid the agency wages for some months now... Regarding the whole press release, Sullivans have made it sound like TfL are entirely to blame. However there was a reason TfL weren't paying the money, and most of the issues were caused by themselves. They have underfunded maintenance, it's a toxic environment due to certain managers so staff retention is awful (and they have a reputatuon with certain driving agencies so drivers won't even take the work at a decent rate due to condition of the buses and managers), and the general management and operation of the business is not good. Surprised VOSA haven't been around, especially with the amount of issues reported that staff are told "are fine" and to "carry on". They've really got an issue when they have 0 available Euro 6 buses (commercial or TfL single or double deckers) for a small PVR rail job on a Sunday at 10am Not paying the agency is a red flag wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan's disappeared and a new company popped up with a different name . |
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Post by joefrombow on Aug 3, 2024 16:40:50 GMT
It occurs to me that a similar situation has emerged in Greater Manchester, and has the potential to occur in other areas where franchising is rolled out: the virtual demise of the SME operator. We have been here before, of course. The 1960s and 1970s were also a very challenging time for bus operators. With the sell-out of the BET Group to the Govenment and the subsequent creation of the National Bus Company in 1969, and the creation of Passenger Transport Executives in the new Metropolitan Counties between 1968 and 1974, many smaller independents chose simply to sell out, either to the NBC or the local PTE. And not just independents; the municipal operators in Luton and Exeter also sold out to the NBC in 1970. Going further back, the London Transport Act of 1933 allowed the newly-created London Passenger Transport Board to eliminate all competing bus operators in London (and a considerable chunk of the Home Counties) virtually overnight, by using its powers of Compulsory Purchase to buy them out (as they also did with the Metropolitan Railway and the London County Council trams). Some operators used their windfall from Compulsory Purchase to set up as private coach companies instead, such as Empress of Bethnal Green who had been competing with London General on route 8. Empress is still trading but has now moved its operations out of the London area. Empress have operated from various places across London, can remember when they moved to the coach yard under the DLR viaduct between Greenwich and Deptford Bridge. I think SMEs can exist in the tendered world, many across the country survive on local authority contract services. I pretty sure Vision Bus in Greater Manchester have picked up some of the GM school contracts, which on top of rail work should keep them going. An SME could exist in London, operating some of the smaller contracted routes- in my area routes like the 362, 346 and 347 would be ideal for a smaller company. However, any company in London regardless of their size need to meet the expectation of their customer (in this instance TfL.) There's also a good proportion of drivers who would prefer to drive for a smaller, locally owned company like Blue Triangle (when it was independent,) Trustline, Red Route etc. Still possible I guess Docklands Buses/Minibus has started small built company up and sold it twice , so no reason with the right finance etc it couldn't happen again although would be a lot harder nowadays due to the costs , Wouldn't be surprised if London moved to a Manchester style model in the future instead of individual routes . |
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Post by COBO on Aug 3, 2024 17:21:00 GMT
Makes you wonder if TfL can do this to a small operator what about a big operator.
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