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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 3, 2024 17:31:22 GMT
Makes you wonder if TfL can do this to a small operator what about a big operator. Maybe lets try that with Stagecoach specifically RM  |
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Post by adl on Aug 3, 2024 17:36:24 GMT
Makes you wonder if TfL can do this to a small operator what about a big operator. Maybe lets try that with Stagecoach specifically RM You always bash Rainham, but I really don’t see your issue their services are run really well apart from the 174 which is largely down to the nature of the route and even that is not diabolical Your 365 bashing I certainly don’t agree with considering I use the route daily and I live on line of route! There are much worse garages out there. i hate to break it to you but Stagecoach have a firm hold on Romford and surrounding area. |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 3, 2024 17:47:38 GMT
You always bash Rainham, but I really don’t see your issue their services are run really well apart from the 174 which is largely down to the nature of the route and even that is not diabolical Your 365 bashing I certainly don’t agree with considering I use the route daily and I live on line of route! There are much worse garages out there. i hate to break it to you but Stagecoach have a firm hold on Romford and surrounding area. Live on the Clockhouse Lane End of the 365, which happens to be the only section that is solely 365 (in both direction) and the service we get is horrendous, our buses are almost always terminated short of Havering Park, I've regularly experienced long 30-40 mins gaps in service on my section of route. Maintenance is in my opinion terrible compared to other garages like NS, BK, DX or RR, the buses are just terrible, refurb or not. I can only hope that someone else grabs up the 365, as the route deserves better. The only 'Decent' section of service on the 365 seems to be between Romford and Orchard Village or whatever they call it. And personally I don't think when I see 3 or 4 365's running together, with all of them or most of them curtailed, is an example of a service run 'really well'. But alas TFL are blind to the fact that the 365 is one of the worst performing routes in Romford, behind the 5 and 86 Anyways, back to the Sullivan's thing |
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 3, 2024 17:52:16 GMT
Unfortunately staff weren't made aware until yesterday. Some drivers spotted that their TfL driving duties were taken off the system, a text message was sent to staff directly employed by Sullivans that read "Please note as of Saturday 03rd August sullivan buses are no longer driving tfl routes so please do not come to work" (this is copied letter by letter, including the capitalisation and grammar), no thank you or any further details or anything. A staff letter was later sent out with more information. Agency staff (myself included) received zero information whatsoever (and still haven't today), we only found out from a screenshot of a message from Dean in "Sullivan Buses fan club" on Facebook. (No official information on website or socials for ages, seems the fan club group was the most important to update rather than customers!). Not to mention they haven't paid the agency wages for some months now... Regarding the whole press release, Sullivans have made it sound like TfL are entirely to blame. However there was a reason TfL weren't paying the money, and most of the issues were caused by themselves. They have underfunded maintenance, it's a toxic environment due to certain managers so staff retention is awful (and they have a reputatuon with certain driving agencies so drivers won't even take the work at a decent rate due to condition of the buses and managers), and the general management and operation of the business is not good. Surprised VOSA haven't been around, especially with the amount of issues reported that staff are told "are fine" and to "carry on". They've really got an issue when they have 0 available Euro 6 buses (commercial or TfL single or double deckers) for a small PVR rail job on a Sunday at 10am Not paying the agency is a red flag wouldn't be surprised if Sullivan's disappeared and a new company popped up with a different name . They've not paid the wages before, but usually got sorted after around a month. This time we've been waiting for a few months now |
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Post by adl on Aug 3, 2024 17:56:37 GMT
You always bash Rainham, but I really don’t see your issue their services are run really well apart from the 174 which is largely down to the nature of the route and even that is not diabolical Your 365 bashing I certainly don’t agree with considering I use the route daily and I live on line of route! There are much worse garages out there. i hate to break it to you but Stagecoach have a firm hold on Romford and surrounding area. Live on the Clockhouse Lane End of the 365, which happens to be the only section that is solely 365 (in both direction) and the service we get is horrendous, our buses are almost always terminated short of Havering Park, I've regularly experienced long 30-40 mins gaps in service on my section of route. Maintenance is in my opinion terrible compared to other garages like NS, BK, DX or RR, the buses are just terrible, refurb or not. I can only hope that someone else grabs up the 365, as the route deserves better. The only 'Decent' section of service on the 365 seems to be between Romford and Orchard Village or whatever they call it. And personally I don't think when I see 3 or 4 365's running together, with all of them or most of them curtailed, is an example of a service run 'really well'. But alas TFL are blind to the fact that the 365 is one of the worst performing routes in Romford, behind the 5 and 86 Anyways, back to the Sullivan's thing Funny enough I am also on the Collier Row end of the 365, and I don’t see your concern, there are a FEW turns to Romford, Parkside Avenue but they mainly get pulled towards Beam Park normally to South Hornchurch or Elm Park, Recently there have been numerous roadworks on line of route in the Romford area and also Elm Park area, so the service WAS affected then like all routes in the area, and as for maintenance you do crack me up, I can’t believe you live on line of route with the rubbish your spouting with all due respect. I look forward to you actually using the route  And I can gaurentee it’s staying with Stagecoach, GAL/Arriva aren’t out of the question but Stagecoach are situated well and will likely undercut the other 2 with prices. oh and as for maintenance I’d say RM are better than DX, RR and GY, NS & RM are far superior with presentation then GAL & Arriva in the area specially with blinds your lucky to see a 103 the blinds set correctly, rare. |
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Post by 365tohaveringpark on Aug 3, 2024 18:07:47 GMT
Funny enough I am also on the Collier Row end of the 365, and I don’t see your concern, there are a FEW turns to Romford, Parkside Avenue but they mainly get pulled towards Beam Park normally to South Hornchurch or Elm Park, Recently there have been numerous roadworks on line of route in the Romford area and also Elm Park area, so the service WAS affected then like all routes in the area, and as for maintenance you do crack me up, I can’t believe you live on line of route with the rubbish your spouting with all due respect. I look forward to you actually using the route And I can gaurentee it’s staying with Stagecoach, GAL/Arriva aren’t out of the question but Stagecoach are situated well and will likely undercut the other 2 with prices. oh and as for maintenance I’d say RM are better than DX, RR and GY, NS & RM are far superior with presentation then GAL & Arriva in the area. You don't ever see the 'Collier Row' curtailments as they don't show up on LVF, the countdown timers or inside the bus. I use the route almost every day, and it's always a gamble, whether I waste my time waiting for the 365 or just get whatever and walk. And I don't think having loose handrails, peeling paint, crappy overpainted handrails and the fact the MMC's at NS were recently beginning to smoke, isn't what I call 'Presentable' and neither is that God Awful Interior Stagecoach has. I don't use the 103 as it goes no where near Clockhouse Lane or anywhere that I need to go, therefore I don't care for it and any route that I don't use on a daily basis Again End of Debate, back to the original thread. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 3, 2024 18:22:15 GMT
With just 7 operators on London bus services, this is easily the fewest since 1986. It occurs to me that a similar situation has emerged in Greater Manchester, and has the potential to occur in other areas where franchising is rolled out: the virtual demise of the SME (Small to Medium-size Enterprise) operator. We have been here before, of course. The 1960s and 1970s were also a very challenging time for bus operators. With the sell-out of the BET Group to the Govenment and the subsequent creation of the National Bus Company in 1969, and the creation of Passenger Transport Executives in the new Metropolitan Counties between 1968 and 1974, many smaller independents chose simply to sell out, either to the NBC or the local PTE. And not just independents; the municipal operators in Luton and Exeter also sold out to the NBC in 1970. Going further back, the London Transport Act of 1933 allowed the newly-created London Passenger Transport Board to eliminate all competing bus operators in London (and a considerable chunk of the Home Counties) virtually overnight, by using its powers of Compulsory Purchase to buy them out (as they also did with the Metropolitan Railway and the London County Council trams). Some operators used their windfall from Compulsory Purchase to set up as private coach companies instead, such as Empress of Bethnal Green who had been competing with London General on route 8. Empress is still trading but has now moved its operations out of the London area. This bares truth with the privatisation of LBL and the subsidiaries of NBC that were operating London bus routes at the time. Although routes are put out to tender, with privatisation, blocks of garages were offered for sale together. So, with this, the successful purchasers, effective permanent garage franchisees, all had strong footholds in the London bus market. |
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Post by wirewiper on Aug 3, 2024 18:24:05 GMT
So to sum up what we think we know, at 09.00 on Saturday 3rd August we have: 217 - operated by Arriva (AR), possibly emergency timetable 298 - operated by Uno, definite emergency timetable with limted service, ceasing around 18.00 299 - operated by Go-Ahead (NP), possibkly emergency timetable 327 - suspended UFN 389 - suspended UFN 399 - suspended UFN 549 - interim operation by Stagecoach (WH) until service changes on 24th September. Possibly full timetable. W9 - operated by Stagecoach (AW), possibly emergency timetable. School routes 605, 606, 617, 629 to be retendered for the start of school term in September. 640 has already been awarded to metroline to start in September. Please feel free to update, correct, or fill in any gaps! And what i think we know now, twelve hours later: 217 has been operated by Arriva (AR), using some of its own Enviro400s and some hired in. 298 has been operated by Uno on an emegrency timetable. 299 has been operated by Go-Ahead (NP) using 61-reg SEs on a reduced timetable. 327 appears to have had some level of service operated by Metroline (PB) 389/399 have not operated today but may have a service from Monday 549 has not operated today but Stagecoach plans to operate the service from Monday. W9 did not operate this morning, but Stagecpoach had buses from HK out from around mid-day. 720 was operated by RATP (SO) from mid-day onwards, initially with a reduced timetable. As I said before - if you know better than I do, speak up! |
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Post by adl on Aug 3, 2024 18:28:03 GMT
So to sum up what we think we know, at 09.00 on Saturday 3rd August we have: 217 - operated by Arriva (AR), possibly emergency timetable 298 - operated by Uno, definite emergency timetable with limted service, ceasing around 18.00 299 - operated by Go-Ahead (NP), possibkly emergency timetable 327 - suspended UFN 389 - suspended UFN 399 - suspended UFN 549 - interim operation by Stagecoach (WH) until service changes on 24th September. Possibly full timetable. W9 - operated by Stagecoach (AW), possibly emergency timetable. School routes 605, 606, 617, 629 to be retendered for the start of school term in September. 640 has already been awarded to metroline to start in September. Please feel free to update, correct, or fill in any gaps! And what i think we know now, twelve hours later: 217 has been operated by Arriva (AR), using some of its own Enviro400s and some hired in. 298 has been operated by Uno on an emegrency timetable. 299 has been operated by Go-Ahead (NP) using 61-reg SEs on a reduced timetable. 327 appears to have had some level of service operated by Metroline (PB) 389/399 have not operated today but may have a service from Monday 549 has not operated today but Stagecoach plans to operate the service from Monday. W9 did not operate this morning, but Stagecpoach had buses from HK out from around mid-day. 720 was operated by RATP (SO) from mid-day onwards, initially with a reduced timetable. As I said before - if you know better than I do, speak up! Small error, there hasn’t been any E400s on route today just HVs/DWs are reportedly a HA, although when I saw HA15 it was working Railway Replacement for the Piccadilly line so was either out for a short time or spotted as RR and assumed to be a 217. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Aug 3, 2024 18:37:26 GMT
In terms of the allocations used today on the 217, 298, 299, 327 & W9. 217 is using a mix of HA's and HV's today with HA15, HA18, HV167, HV329, HV356 & HV357 seen on the route so far. 298 has a varied run out with a E400 1486 (Ex RATP ADE40457), Scania 1501 (Ex RATP SP40192), E400 MMC 1478 (Ex TT DH38501) and a 383 branded short E200 605. 299 is fully 10.2m YX61 SE's transferred from South London in form of SE148/149/167/169/172. 327 using a DEM from PB as far as I'm aware. W9 is using a 9.7m E200/MMC fleet from HK & AW with 37721, 37744 & 37757 being the first few buses out on the route. Sounds like most of observations already done. Will be visiting Barnet today (only one of few good cinemas in area of North London 😉) and seeing those routes not run by Sullivan will feel weird for sure. In just under a month, Barnet has lost their MP Theresa Villiers and now one of their bus companies Sullivan.  |
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Post by Busboy105 on Aug 3, 2024 19:09:39 GMT
It's a shame that Sullivans has left. I only had 3 daytime routes left to do. Are the Gemini 1's still in the commercial fleet?
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 3, 2024 20:50:21 GMT
I did enjoy doing work for Sullivans, and quite a few of the regular staff were great to work with, however unfortunately this wasn't enough to keep the operation going Have you found something else, such as W9, 217 etc with the operators that took over? |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 3, 2024 23:02:39 GMT
Funny enough I am also on the Collier Row end of the 365, and I don’t see your concern, there are a FEW turns to Romford, Parkside Avenue but they mainly get pulled towards Beam Park normally to South Hornchurch or Elm Park, Recently there have been numerous roadworks on line of route in the Romford area and also Elm Park area, so the service WAS affected then like all routes in the area, and as for maintenance you do crack me up, I can’t believe you live on line of route with the rubbish your spouting with all due respect. I look forward to you actually using the route And I can gaurentee it’s staying with Stagecoach, GAL/Arriva aren’t out of the question but Stagecoach are situated well and will likely undercut the other 2 with prices. oh and as for maintenance I’d say RM are better than DX, RR and GY, NS & RM are far superior with presentation then GAL & Arriva in the area. You don't ever see the 'Collier Row' curtailments as they don't show up on LVF, the countdown timers or inside the bus. I use the route almost every day, and it's always a gamble, whether I waste my time waiting for the 365 or just get whatever and walk. And I don't think having loose handrails, peeling paint, crappy overpainted handrails and the fact the MMC's at NS were recently beginning to smoke, isn't what I call 'Presentable' and neither is that God Awful Interior Stagecoach has. I don't use the 103 as it goes no where near Clockhouse Lane or anywhere that I need to go, therefore I don't care for it and any route that I don't use on a daily basis Again End of Debate, back to the original thread. I live in Romford- I've not seen any MMCs "smoking." |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Aug 4, 2024 0:09:55 GMT
Funny enough I am also on the Collier Row end of the 365, and I don’t see your concern, there are a FEW turns to Romford, Parkside Avenue but they mainly get pulled towards Beam Park normally to South Hornchurch or Elm Park, Recently there have been numerous roadworks on line of route in the Romford area and also Elm Park area, so the service WAS affected then like all routes in the area, and as for maintenance you do crack me up, I can’t believe you live on line of route with the rubbish your spouting with all due respect. I look forward to you actually using the route And I can gaurentee it’s staying with Stagecoach, GAL/Arriva aren’t out of the question but Stagecoach are situated well and will likely undercut the other 2 with prices. oh and as for maintenance I’d say RM are better than DX, RR and GY, NS & RM are far superior with presentation then GAL & Arriva in the area. You don't ever see the 'Collier Row' curtailments as they don't show up on LVF, the countdown timers or inside the bus. I use the route almost every day, and it's always a gamble, whether I waste my time waiting for the 365 or just get whatever and walk. And I don't think having loose handrails, peeling paint, crappy overpainted handrails and the fact the MMC's at NS were recently beginning to smoke, isn't what I call 'Presentable' and neither is that God Awful Interior Stagecoach has. I don't use the 103 as it goes no where near Clockhouse Lane or anywhere that I need to go, therefore I don't care for it and any route that I don't use on a daily basis Again End of Debate, back to the original thread. Based on the above, I've had a look at the TfL Performance Figures for RMs routes 165- slightly above EWT and slightly below minimum mileage 174- Slightly above EWT, meets minimum mileage 252- below EWT target, higher than minimum mileage target 256- below EWT target, higher than minimum mileage target 287 (low frequency contract) above % on time, above minimum mileage target 346 (low frequency contract) meets on time and minimum mileage target 365- Above EWT at 1.5 minutes (EWT target 1 minute), minimum mileage just below target 372- below % on time, meets minimum mileage target 496 (low frequency contract) slightly below % on time, above minimum mileage target 499 (low frequency contract) slightly below % on time, meets minimum mileage target All this suggest things aren't that bad- the amount of roadworks in Havering, particularly the works on North Street and current works on Victoria Road would have skewed many of those figures. For example, the 86 has also taken a bit of a dip recently, but has been affected by roadworks and temporary lights in various locations between Ilford and Romford, along with the diversion earlier this year around Forest Gate. The performance figures are gathered using data from iBus so it's not as if any operator can "cook the books" to make their performance appear better. |
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Post by Leccy86Hybrid on Aug 4, 2024 5:32:31 GMT
You don't ever see the 'Collier Row' curtailments as they don't show up on LVF, the countdown timers or inside the bus. I use the route almost every day, and it's always a gamble, whether I waste my time waiting for the 365 or just get whatever and walk. And I don't think having loose handrails, peeling paint, crappy overpainted handrails and the fact the MMC's at NS were recently beginning to smoke, isn't what I call 'Presentable' and neither is that God Awful Interior Stagecoach has. I don't use the 103 as it goes no where near Clockhouse Lane or anywhere that I need to go, therefore I don't care for it and any route that I don't use on a daily basis Again End of Debate, back to the original thread. Based on the above, I've had a look at the TfL Performance Figures for RMs routes 165- slightly above EWT and slightly below minimum mileage 174- Slightly above EWT, meets minimum mileage 252- below EWT target, higher than minimum mileage target 256- below EWT target, higher than minimum mileage target 287 (low frequency contract) above % on time, above minimum mileage target 346 (low frequency contract) meets on time and minimum mileage target 365- Above EWT at 1.5 minutes (EWT target 1 minute), minimum mileage just below target 372- below % on time, meets minimum mileage target 496 (low frequency contract) slightly below % on time, above minimum mileage target 499 (low frequency contract) slightly below % on time, meets minimum mileage target All this suggest things aren't that bad- the amount of roadworks in Havering, particularly the works on North Street and current works on Victoria Road would have skewed many of those figures. For example, the 86 has also taken a bit of a dip recently, but has been affected by roadworks and temporary lights in various locations between Ilford and Romford, along with the diversion earlier this year around Forest Gate. The performance figures are gathered using data from iBus so it's not as if any operator can "cook the books" to make their performance appear better. As a Romford driver, I can see that IBUS have been trying their hardest to keep a decent service. In this case, 86 and 365 are on the same ibus screen lol. The 365 can normally run itself but recently loads of roadworks and incidents as you mentioned as made it unpredictable. So adding the 86 you have 2 unpredictable routes. On a normal day, the 365 can work itself without ibus intervention as most are Ex First drivers so they know the route like the back of the hand so any diversions that may occur they can do it with no problem with less delays as possible. Back to Sullivans now lol |
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And I can gaurentee it’s staying with Stagecoach, GAL/Arriva aren’t out of the question but Stagecoach are situated well and will likely undercut the other 2 with prices.
