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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 24, 2021 11:23:10 GMT
Its not competition when one bus is miles and miles ahead of the other, and two of the three operators that operate the type only operate them due to there being no other choice. Optare need to fix up. Time will tell but Optare produced a better no rattle bus. The new ownership may get them back on track. I'm sure operators prefer a bus that only squeaks a bit as opposed to one that often packs it up either halfway through the day or the late evening service needing to have Hybrids or Diesels subbed on. Look at it. Optare have what? 20 buses on order from London while BYD seem to have around 150. Its clear which one operators prefer.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 24, 2021 11:25:32 GMT
Its not competition when one bus is miles and miles ahead of the other, and two of the three operators that operate the type only operate them due to there being no other choice. Optare need to fix up. Time will tell but Optare produced a better no rattle bus. The new ownership may get them back on track. New Ownership? Not aware Hinduja group has disposed of any interests in Optare or Ashok Leyland
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 24, 2021 11:38:38 GMT
Time will tell but Optare produced a better no rattle bus. The new ownership may get them back on track. I'm sure operators prefer a bus that only squeaks a bit as opposed to one that often packs it up either halfway through the day or the late evening service needing to have Hybrids or Diesels subbed on. Look at it. Optare have what? 20 buses on order from London while BYD seem to have around 150. Its clear which one operators prefer. Also worth comparing how many BYD ADL EV's operating now compared to Optare's EV's, nowhere near. Optare is in no competition compared to BYD ADL, they are not getting good orders. And also its orders are always late on that rare instance. It could take them to bankrupcy.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 24, 2021 12:12:07 GMT
I'm sure operators prefer a bus that only squeaks a bit as opposed to one that often packs it up either halfway through the day or the late evening service needing to have Hybrids or Diesels subbed on. Look at it. Optare have what? 20 buses on order from London while BYD seem to have around 150. Its clear which one operators prefer. Also worth comparing how many BYD ADL EV's operating now compared to Optare's EV's, nowhere near. Optare is in no competition compared to BYD ADL, they are not getting good orders. And also its orders are always late on that rare instance. It could take them to bankrupcy. I doubt it will take them to bankruptcy, their relatively smaller profile means that they can run on less money compared to what ADL will. I'm also sure Auditors will just eventually tell them when it's time to cut their losses and cease making a poor product or they continue improving it to eventually win orders. However the clock has started ticking.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 24, 2021 12:20:30 GMT
Also worth comparing how many BYD ADL EV's operating now compared to Optare's EV's, nowhere near. Optare is in no competition compared to BYD ADL, they are not getting good orders. And also its orders are always late on that rare instance. It could take them to bankrupcy. I doubt it will take them to bankruptcy, their relatively smaller profile means that they can run on less money compared to what ADL will. I'm also sure Auditors will just eventually tell them when it's time to cut their losses and cease making a poor product or they continue improving it to eventually win orders. However the clock has started ticking. Optare was never popular in the TfL market but present. Same is happening now, ADL (Wright formerly was) is always dominant. The OPT Metrodecker EV definetley has poetential. I think the body itself is very unpopular, maybe having the electric vehicle in a Wright or ADL body, then they would get orders if cheaper compared to the BYD/ADL electric bus. So far, except for TT all orders with Optare were due to length restrictions. Now ADL will provide 10.3m buses Optare are in a big problem. GAL's order will probably be the first and last. No orders from other operators except for TT in 2020. Metroline bought both types to compare; do any Metroline staff have a clue which is more popular and liked by the company and its status? I wonder why TT have opted for Optare as no other operator did, will TT continue with Optare and switch to ADL? If that were to happen Optare would have no permanent buyer in London . But tbf Optare was always just a side-kick company in London.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 24, 2021 12:33:03 GMT
I doubt it will take them to bankruptcy, their relatively smaller profile means that they can run on less money compared to what ADL will. I'm also sure Auditors will just eventually tell them when it's time to cut their losses and cease making a poor product or they continue improving it to eventually win orders. However the clock has started ticking. Optare was never popular in the TfL market but present. Same is happening now, ADL (Wright formerly was) is always dominant. The OPT Metrodecker EV definetley has poetential. I think the body itself is very unpopular, maybe having the electric vehicle in a Wright or ADL body, then they would get orders if cheaper compared to the BYD/ADL electric bus. So far, except for TT all orders with Optare were due to length restrictions. Now ADL will provide 10.3m buses Optare are in a big problem. GAL's order will probably be the first and last. No orders from other operators except for TT in 2020. Metroline bought both types to compare; do any Metroline staff have a clue which is more popular and liked by the company and its status? I wonder why TT have opted for Optare as no other operator did, will TT continue with Optare and switch to ADL? If that were to happen Optare would have no permanent buyer in London . But tbf Optare was always just a side-kick company in London. Tower Transit have a habit of ordering the cheapest option they can which will probably explain the costs. BYD equipment is also very cumbersome and more expensive to install as opposed to Optare equipment as the Optare equipment is effectively a mainline connection while BYD connections have a separate power supply. Optare buses have the power supply built into the bus.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 24, 2021 12:56:20 GMT
I doubt it will take them to bankruptcy, their relatively smaller profile means that they can run on less money compared to what ADL will. I'm also sure Auditors will just eventually tell them when it's time to cut their losses and cease making a poor product or they continue improving it to eventually win orders. However the clock has started ticking. Optare was never popular in the TfL market but present. Same is happening now, ADL (Wright formerly was) is always dominant. The OPT Metrodecker EV definetley has poetential. I think the body itself is very unpopular, maybe having the electric vehicle in a Wright or ADL body, then they would get orders if cheaper compared to the BYD/ADL electric bus. So far, except for TT all orders with Optare were due to length restrictions. Now ADL will provide 10.3m buses Optare are in a big problem. GAL's order will probably be the first and last. No orders from other operators except for TT in 2020. Metroline bought both types to compare; do any Metroline staff have a clue which is more popular and liked by the company and its status? I wonder why TT have opted for Optare as no other operator did, will TT continue with Optare and switch to ADL? If that were to happen Optare would have no permanent buyer in London . But tbf Optare was always just a side-kick company in London. Optare buses have been ordered by London operators as far back as the 80’s so I don’t know where you get the idea they aren’t popular. The only order that was done because of length was the batch for the 200 - the orders for Metroline & Tower Transit have nothing to do with that. Go-Aheads order may not be the last because the charging equipment for each type isn’t universal so it may end up better making AL a Metrodecker garage in time.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 24, 2021 13:02:02 GMT
I'm sure operators prefer a bus that only squeaks a bit as opposed to one that often packs it up either halfway through the day or the late evening service needing to have Hybrids or Diesels subbed on. Look at it. Optare have what? 20 buses on order from London while BYD seem to have around 150. Its clear which one operators prefer. Also worth comparing how many BYD ADL EV's operating now compared to Optare's EV's, nowhere near. Optare is in no competition compared to BYD ADL, they are not getting good orders. And also its orders are always late on that rare instance. It could take them to bankrupcy. Once again, it must be reminded that the size of both companies are different - the Optare division is small compared to ADL so why people enjoy comparing the two I’ve no idea. Also, they are treated as if they’re the only company for buses to turn up late ever - ADL have had several late batches and if you go back a decade, I remember Scania buses constantly turning up late but I guess as they’re not called Optare, it’s not cool to bash them. Not to mention once again that Optare have had strikes at their factory.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 24, 2021 13:10:19 GMT
Now that there is a shorter 10.3m version of the E400EV, it would be interesting to see if the operators go the same ways as during the early 2000's of going for a multiple lengths of double deckers with some orders going for the shorter version and others still going for the longer 10.9m version for most of their routes or even all the E400EV orders at some point going to be the 10.3m version. It is not clear what the capacity of this vehicle is Remember TfL spec now includes a bigger wheelchair space, and there is a minimum passenger capacity. Will it actually be compliant for TfL tenders ? Most likely it will. I see with the electric vehicles we seem to have gone back over 25 years ago when low floor buses first came to the market. The first versions were long wheelbase 10.5m double deckers, then we got the 9.9m versions of double deckers. Initially single deckers we were lumbered with 10.2m, 10.7m, then 9.4m and finally 8.8m. I guess we may at some point gain a rear lower deck window. One disadvantage of the BYD imo which has gone the way of the first DLA's and TA's with no rear window on the lower deck. They could have at least put a tv monitor at the back showing the rear via the cctv external camera
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 24, 2021 13:10:39 GMT
Optare was never popular in the TfL market but present. Same is happening now, ADL (Wright formerly was) is always dominant. The OPT Metrodecker EV definetley has poetential. I think the body itself is very unpopular, maybe having the electric vehicle in a Wright or ADL body, then they would get orders if cheaper compared to the BYD/ADL electric bus. So far, except for TT all orders with Optare were due to length restrictions. Now ADL will provide 10.3m buses Optare are in a big problem. GAL's order will probably be the first and last. No orders from other operators except for TT in 2020. Metroline bought both types to compare; do any Metroline staff have a clue which is more popular and liked by the company and its status? I wonder why TT have opted for Optare as no other operator did, will TT continue with Optare and switch to ADL? If that were to happen Optare would have no permanent buyer in London . But tbf Optare was always just a side-kick company in London. Optare buses have been ordered by London operators as far back as the 80’s so I don’t know where you get the idea they aren’t popular. The only order that was done because of length was the batch for the 200 - the orders for Metroline & Tower Transit have nothing to do with that. Go-Aheads order may not be the last because the charging equipment for each type isn’t universal so it may end up better making AL a Metrodecker garage in time. 1. Vjaska, I actually already said on Page 66 that GAL could purchase with Optare for AL, but I doubt, may be surprised, they will order it in other garages. 2. TT bought it just as an order. GAL ordered it due to length restrictions. Metroline bought one batch of each to compare, so the company can set their preferences (was in 2019 so new with not much information how the buses will operate.) I wonder what will Metroline order later in the end. 3. What you said was very true but not many companies ordered a lot with Optare, only Epsom Coaches purely monopolised with Optare. Only one or two batches. Nothing like compared to Wright or ADL.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 13:42:28 GMT
Optare buses have been ordered by London operators as far back as the 80’s so I don’t know where you get the idea they aren’t popular. The only order that was done because of length was the batch for the 200 - the orders for Metroline & Tower Transit have nothing to do with that. Go-Aheads order may not be the last because the charging equipment for each type isn’t universal so it may end up better making AL a Metrodecker garage in time. 1. Vjaska, I actually already said on Page 66 that GAL could purchase with Optare for AL, but I doubt, may be surprised, they will order it in other garages. 2. TT bought it just as an order. GAL ordered it due to length restrictions. Metroline bought one batch of each to compare, so the company can set their preferences (was in 2019 so new with not much information how the buses will operate.) I wonder what will Metroline order later in the end. 3. What you said was very true but not many companies ordered a lot with Optare, only Epsom Coaches purely monopolised with Optare. Only one or two batches. Nothing like compared to Wright or ADL.
You are stating things as fact without any source. Think too many assumptions are being made about Optare. One thing to consider is ADL have a huge amout of orders to complete which means operators might be forced to look elsewhere so companies like Optare and Wright might stand more of a chance of getting orders.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 24, 2021 14:34:12 GMT
Optare buses have been ordered by London operators as far back as the 80’s so I don’t know where you get the idea they aren’t popular. The only order that was done because of length was the batch for the 200 - the orders for Metroline & Tower Transit have nothing to do with that. Go-Aheads order may not be the last because the charging equipment for each type isn’t universal so it may end up better making AL a Metrodecker garage in time. 1. Vjaska, I actually already said on Page 66 that GAL could purchase with Optare for AL, but I doubt, may be surprised, they will order it in other garages. 2. TT bought it just as an order. GAL ordered it due to length restrictions. Metroline bought one batch of each to compare, so the company can set their preferences (was in 2019 so new with not much information how the buses will operate.) I wonder what will Metroline order later in the end. 3. What you said was very true but not many companies ordered a lot with Optare, only Epsom Coaches purely monopolised with Optare. Only one or two batches. Nothing like compared to Wright or ADL.
2. I'm very aware how each batch has been produced, it was yourself who said that only the Tower batch wasn't brought due to length issues which is incorrect as the Metroline batch wasn't brought due to any length issues. 3. You still don't seem to understand that Optare is much smaller than Wrightbus or ADL so it's useless comparing them. Epsom Coaches didn't purely monopolise with Optare - Epsom Coaches had a number of Darts with Plaxton bodies both step and low floor examples as well as a couple of batches with ALX200 & ELC bodies. They also brought several Enviro 400's and operated minibuses not built by Optare. Couple that with the fact that their coach fleet during the 00's was practically excluively Setras and this notion of monopolisation with Optare is false. They had a good relationship with Optare which is what led to a number of orders from them.
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Post by bmck on Feb 24, 2021 17:26:34 GMT
The BYD electrics at HT are much loved by drivers, both the single & double decks. No reliability issues either. Optare... oh dear. Forever in trouble. Usually having to swap vehicles around due to charging issues. 134's use the 125 hybrids in the evening by means of a vehicle swap at Tally Ho Corner when a 125 runs empty from Colindale to PB.
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Post by dashing0ne on Feb 24, 2021 18:08:06 GMT
The BYD electrics at HT are much loved by drivers, both the single & double decks. No reliability issues either. Optare... oh dear. Forever in trouble. Usually having to swap vehicles around due to charging issues. 134's use the 125 hybrids in the evening by means of a vehicle swap at Tally Ho Corner when a 125 runs empty from Colindale to PB. I think that gives the answer to what electric vehicle Metroline will choose in the future...
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Post by cc2005 on Feb 24, 2021 18:36:35 GMT
Other major things I’ve noticed is the ADL/BYD ones have upper deck air cooling as is normal on all DD deliveries in London these days..And the Optare ones don’t...I thought that was also a TfL requirement? Unless they got an exemption..
The Optare ones also have the lower deck backward facing seats when the ADL ones are all forward facing...
Thirdly, it might just be me, but I feel that the upper deck on the Optare is really low - is it a low height Bus or does it just seem that way?
And finally, I still hate that huge space between the upper deck nearside front seat and the front window..
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