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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 17, 2021 0:58:36 GMT
If you think an electric bus advert is going to attract passengers you are displaying just how naive you are. Telling a passenger how shiny and new a bus is doesn’t offer them much if their service runs less frequently than it did a year ago. How would you expect TfL or any other operator to react to falling passenger numbers and income. You really expect organisations to pay to provide bus services that are not being used. The old saying use it or lose it comes to mind. If Londoners choose not to use their bus services, they have to face the consequences of their inaction. They have let the rot set in and done nothing about it. They seem more intrested in Brain Kearney, ISA, etc. thinking that would attract passengers when it has done the opposite. Uber have come in London and ripped the carpet underneath their feet. Even now since a lot of people left the mini cab trade during the pandemic. London buses has no capitalised on that with any sensible advertising whatsoever. 30 years ago they were pressing hard with advertising the nightbus network, even saying how it was cheaper than a cab etc. They think it is all about technology and that everyone is on their phone to use their services. The same way the got rid of maps etc. which were direct adverts for many surrounding services and cash fares, they shot themselves in the foot and deserve it imo.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 17, 2021 1:01:32 GMT
How would you expect TfL or any other operator to react to falling passenger numbers and income. By not shooting itself in the foot with road schemes, bus lane closures, 20mph zones and general bus time slowdowns. The fall in passenger numbers falls solely at TfLs door. They need to address all of these things by working with local councils, getting more passenger focused and by asking their passengers why they take the bus and what they would like to see. This assumption that every journey matters is BS when you don’t consider the average passenger in decisions made. I’d like to see more local transport groups aiding TfL or more involvement from MPs, councillors etc to make bus networks better. TfL should be the model for every major bus network in the UK, it should be a “trendsetter” in the transport world not a follower. We shouldn’t be looking at the provinces and saying well it works in Birmingham it will work in East London. I agree apart from local councillors. they are the biggest problem and many have their head stuck in their rear end and have contributed massively to the decline of services in London.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 17, 2021 1:07:07 GMT
Supposedly, it’s new order will be to higher spec buses along with infrastructure on route being upgraded There won't be a bench seat at the back of either deck. No centre seat as somebody might be thrown forward if the bus stops suddenly. Just 2 seats either side. One centre seat at the back, FFS. This is one of the reason why buses in London are in decline, been managed by imbeciles.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 17, 2021 1:52:45 GMT
I don't think he is being negative, what he said regarding people usually saying things of that sort any time a brand new bus enters service is correct IMO as I've experienced it many times. More investment in the bus network is needed beyond some new vehicles before we really begin attracting people back but TfL do not want or seemingly care about attracting people onto their network. We have to consider the environmental aspect here as well, which younger people are far more attuned to. So an electric bus , or hydrogen bus, in the future will be a positive feature involving getting more people onto buses. like you, I’ve witnessed loads of new buses into service, and I’ve never heard positive comments a plenty as I did today. That is credit to the design and interior of the BCE plus the fact it is electric and looks very different with the stand out blind display ( something not in use by Stagecoach) As as an enthusiast I’m enthused by these comments I heard today. I cannot see how it would get people onto buses being electric. After all the concept is not new and we have had many outings of electric buses in London over the years and even hydrogen. This has not seen people heaving to bus stops to have a ride. I have seen many new buses enter service over the years and to be honest have not really seen much fanfare about the electrics as the first near full route was the 312 in London. We have also had hybrids with the 360 years ago. When many hybrid deckers were being spread, people got surprised with the bus moving with the engine off, or thought the bus had cut out. Now that is second nature, no one is phased by it. When we had hoppa buses gracing the streets of London over 30 years ago, it drew people back to buses, as it had a different feel, was fast and the interiors were more coach like compared to standard buses of the time. People did notice and make comments, and people wanted some of their local routes converted to them. Downside was they also put them on heavy trunk routes and they got over subscribed with passengers. When low floor buses came along, that was a different feat due to the flat floor and many could not grasp the concept of getting on board with no central grabrail in the doorway or a step to go up onto. Stagecoach really jazzed things up when they introduced the corporate turning ball interior back in late 2000. I remember many passengers made so much comments about it, the floor was one that wowed them, the interior was like no other. 20 years later it still does not look dated. However this did not attract people to buses in droves. Some people did not even care. I drove brand new buses on their first day in service and people dumped rubbish etc and treated the bus like it was a piece of crap sadly. The BYD buses may be good, but they still lack a great deal. On the deckers the lack of a lower deck rear window is a step backwards of the first ALX400 and Optare Spectra LFDD's with no lower deck rear window. Even worse they could have easily fitted a TV screen at the lower deck rear and use the reverse cctv camera to show on this.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 17, 2021 1:53:53 GMT
It’s a shame you feel so negative. Perhaps people in West London appreciate their buses better. Repeating what others have said but when I use the 69 and 323 passengers haven't been phased by the fact the buses are electric. New buses soon those their new feeling and blend in just like any other bus. I'm sure passengers would notice more that the bus is constantly being held to help even out the service! Now if only things like this could be tackled. O and a nice sticker on the side of the saying I'm electric won't do a thing! I agree, the I'm electric just sounds daft. Like the advert for IAMS cat food saying "I am an IAMS cat"
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Post by snowman on Oct 17, 2021 6:52:53 GMT
We have to consider the environmental aspect here as well, which younger people are far more attuned to. So an electric bus , or hydrogen bus, in the future will be a positive feature involving getting more people onto buses. like you, I’ve witnessed loads of new buses into service, and I’ve never heard positive comments a plenty as I did today. That is credit to the design and interior of the BCE plus the fact it is electric and looks very different with the stand out blind display ( something not in use by Stagecoach) As as an enthusiast I’m enthused by these comments I heard today. I cannot see how it would get people onto buses being electric. After all the concept is not new and we have had many outings of electric buses in London over the years and even hydrogen. This has not seen people heaving to bus stops to have a ride. I have seen many new buses enter service over the years and to be honest have not really seen much fanfare about the electrics as the first near full route was the 312 in London. We have also had hybrids with the 360 years ago. When many hybrid deckers were being spread, people got surprised with the bus moving with the engine off, or thought the bus had cut out. Now that is second nature, no one is phased by it. When we had hoppa buses gracing the streets of London over 30 years ago, it drew people back to buses, as it had a different feel, was fast and the interiors were more coach like compared to standard buses of the time. People did notice and make comments, and people wanted some of their local routes converted to them. Downside was they also put them on heavy trunk routes and they got over subscribed with passengers. When low floor buses came along, that was a different feat due to the flat floor and many could not grasp the concept of getting on board with no central grabrail in the doorway or a step to go up onto. Stagecoach really jazzed things up when they introduced the corporate turning ball interior back in late 2000. I remember many passengers made so much comments about it, the floor was one that wowed them, the interior was like no other. 20 years later it still does not look dated. However this did not attract people to buses in droves. Some people did not even care. I drove brand new buses on their first day in service and people dumped rubbish etc and treated the bus like it was a piece of crap sadly. The BYD buses may be good, but they still lack a great deal. On the deckers the lack of a lower deck rear window is a step backwards of the first ALX400 and Optare Spectra LFDD's with no lower deck rear window. Even worse they could have easily fitted a TV screen at the lower deck rear and use the reverse cctv camera to show on this. Totally agree, it’s not some fairground novelty ride, that people want to have a go on. Inside the bus is much like any other, maybe a tad quieter (but when the windows are open going to still hear other traffic, so even that improvement is lost). Really if want to attract people back, got to improve the journey experience. 1) Start at the bus stop for those who haven’t yet got on, far to many have no info, no seat, no shelter if it rains. 2) Doesn’t matter how much money you have, can’t buy a ticket to ride, either need a card or take a detour to somewhere (oyster outlet) shop. Big deterrent to casual traveller (does your local bus stop have a sign explaining how to pay) 3) The actual bus, we all know TfL spec is functional, and usually lot worse spec than average car (uncomfortable seats, no climate control etc) will work in poor areas where people don’t have cars, but not going to incentivise others to switch to buses 4) The double decker conundrum, surveys have shown that 30% can’t or won’t go upstairs, so why is TfL so obsessed with double decks, it needs to reappraise what will fit on routes, the stairs take out lots of seats near the front 5) The journey, for most people want to get there efficiently, so regulating service and time wasting are a deterrent. TfL and council policy with blocking side roads to force traffic onto bus routes, slow speed limits all makes buses less attractive. 6) Alighting, what do people remember to make them want to travel by bus again, probably not a lot unless the bus was held one stop before they wanted to alight, in which case likely to have very negative view TfL have to get back to basics, not slap a few stickers on buses (alongside dozens on other stickers) and assume they are a magic bullet to fix the bus passenger numbers
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Post by greenboy on Oct 17, 2021 8:02:29 GMT
We have to consider the environmental aspect here as well, which younger people are far more attuned to. So an electric bus , or hydrogen bus, in the future will be a positive feature involving getting more people onto buses. like you, I’ve witnessed loads of new buses into service, and I’ve never heard positive comments a plenty as I did today. That is credit to the design and interior of the BCE plus the fact it is electric and looks very different with the stand out blind display ( something not in use by Stagecoach) As as an enthusiast I’m enthused by these comments I heard today. I cannot see how it would get people onto buses being electric. After all the concept is not new and we have had many outings of electric buses in London over the years and even hydrogen. This has not seen people heaving to bus stops to have a ride. I have seen many new buses enter service over the years and to be honest have not really seen much fanfare about the electrics as the first near full route was the 312 in London. We have also had hybrids with the 360 years ago. When many hybrid deckers were being spread, people got surprised with the bus moving with the engine off, or thought the bus had cut out. Now that is second nature, no one is phased by it. When we had hoppa buses gracing the streets of London over 30 years ago, it drew people back to buses, as it had a different feel, was fast and the interiors were more coach like compared to standard buses of the time. People did notice and make comments, and people wanted some of their local routes converted to them. Downside was they also put them on heavy trunk routes and they got over subscribed with passengers. When low floor buses came along, that was a different feat due to the flat floor and many could not grasp the concept of getting on board with no central grabrail in the doorway or a step to go up onto. Stagecoach really jazzed things up when they introduced the corporate turning ball interior back in late 2000. I remember many passengers made so much comments about it, the floor was one that wowed them, the interior was like no other. 20 years later it still does not look dated. However this did not attract people to buses in droves. Some people did not even care. I drove brand new buses on their first day in service and people dumped rubbish etc and treated the bus like it was a piece of crap sadly. The BYD buses may be good, but they still lack a great deal. On the deckers the lack of a lower deck rear window is a step backwards of the first ALX400 and Optare Spectra LFDD's with no lower deck rear window. Even worse they could have easily fitted a TV screen at the lower deck rear and use the reverse cctv camera to show on this. But they are a new concept for many people, there are hardly any all electric buses in South East London at the moment. I think most people would agree that all electric buses have a far better ride quality so why would you not want to draw peoples attention to the fact that they are electric buses instead of disguising them as bog standard buses? A bit of branding on the side costs virtually nothing. Obviously there are other areas where things can be improved and nobody is suggesting that this is a silver bullet solution but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Or maybe TfL don't want to get people back onto buses in which case leave things as they are now and let the spiral of falling passenger numbers and cuts in services continue. Anyway let's see what the new 63 contract brings. And I agree that the lack of a lower deck rear window on the BYD is a retrograde step and that's something else that needs to be looked at.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 17, 2021 11:05:56 GMT
It's funny the need is felt to brand buses about the fact they are electric but traditional black cabs have carried on as before with no new branding.
Going off topic but I think more concentrated effort needs to be made to convert deliveries vans to electric in London. Things will only get worse with more and more deliveries especially with push towards deliveries in as little as 30 mins from supermarkets! What a future we will live in everyone sat at home waiting for goods to arrive. I personally find that a very depressing thought.
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 17, 2021 13:19:41 GMT
It's funny the need is felt to brand buses about the fact they are electric but traditional black cabs have carried on as before with no new branding.
Going off topic but I think more concentrated effort needs to be made to convert deliveries vans to electric in London. Things will only get worse with more and more deliveries especially with push towards deliveries in as little as 30 mins from supermarkets! What a future we will live in everyone sat at home waiting for goods to arrive. I personally find that a very depressing thought.
I'd brand the taxis too. "Not uber-low emission - zero emission!" You won't catch me sitting in waiting for deliveries, I like going out and looking at what I am going to buy. Anything I do order online because I cannot get it in my local shops and they cannot get it in for me (which isn't much), I collect where I can.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 17, 2021 15:45:23 GMT
It's funny the need is felt to brand buses about the fact they are electric but traditional black cabs have carried on as before with no new branding.
Going off topic but I think more concentrated effort needs to be made to convert deliveries vans to electric in London. Things will only get worse with more and more deliveries especially with push towards deliveries in as little as 30 mins from supermarkets! What a future we will live in everyone sat at home waiting for goods to arrive. I personally find that a very depressing thought.
I'd brand the taxis too. "Not uber-low emission - zero emission!" You won't catch me sitting in waiting for deliveries, I like going out and looking at what I am going to buy. Anything I do order online because I cannot get it in my local shops and they cannot get it in for me (which isn't much), I collect where I can. You can brand a taxi however much you like, as long as they continue charging those extortionate prices they'll continue losing out.
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 17, 2021 16:17:31 GMT
I'd brand the taxis too. "Not uber-low emission - zero emission!" You won't catch me sitting in waiting for deliveries, I like going out and looking at what I am going to buy. Anything I do order online because I cannot get it in my local shops and they cannot get it in for me (which isn't much), I collect where I can. You can brand a taxi however much you like, as long as they continue charging those extortionate prices they'll continue losing out. I rarely use taxis, but if I ever need one I would still choose a local taxi over Uburp even if it was twice the price. I hate them with a vengeance. Parasites.
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Post by Busboy105 on Oct 17, 2021 17:16:48 GMT
When will the Volvo demonstrator enter service?
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Post by cl54 on Oct 17, 2021 18:27:50 GMT
There won't be a bench seat at the back of either deck. No centre seat as somebody might be thrown forward if the bus stops suddenly. Just 2 seats either side. That's not what he was talking about, this is now the case with every bus I believe. The buses are a trial batch to assess the proposed features. Therefore, the seating is a difference. (Not sure how you know what he was talking about unless you're a mind reader.)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 17, 2021 18:39:31 GMT
That's not what he was talking about, this is now the case with every bus I believe. The buses are a trial batch to assess the proposed features. Therefore, the seating is a difference. (Not sure how you know what he was talking about unless you're a mind reader.) It's not a trial batch for that feature as all of the RATP DD EVs and the 69s EVs downstairs have this feature. If it was a trial they wouldn't already be rolled out.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 17, 2021 19:10:29 GMT
That's not what he was talking about, this is now the case with every bus I believe. The buses are a trial batch to assess the proposed features. Therefore, the seating is a difference. (Not sure how you know what he was talking about unless you're a mind reader.) I don't know the actual details beyond just 'an enhanced interior' just to clear things up but the seating aspect is already a thing on BYD deliveries since the Ee's for the 69 so don't think that's part of the trial.
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