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Post by greenboy on Oct 17, 2021 23:08:12 GMT
You can brand a taxi however much you like, as long as they continue charging those extortionate prices they'll continue losing out. I rarely use taxis, but if I ever need one I would still choose a local taxi over Uburp even if it was twice the price. I hate them with a vengeance. Parasites. Bit harsh? I don't often use taxis either but on the odd occasions I've used uber I've never had any problems.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 18, 2021 0:01:18 GMT
I cannot see how it would get people onto buses being electric. After all the concept is not new and we have had many outings of electric buses in London over the years and even hydrogen. This has not seen people heaving to bus stops to have a ride. I have seen many new buses enter service over the years and to be honest have not really seen much fanfare about the electrics as the first near full route was the 312 in London. We have also had hybrids with the 360 years ago. When many hybrid deckers were being spread, people got surprised with the bus moving with the engine off, or thought the bus had cut out. Now that is second nature, no one is phased by it. When we had hoppa buses gracing the streets of London over 30 years ago, it drew people back to buses, as it had a different feel, was fast and the interiors were more coach like compared to standard buses of the time. People did notice and make comments, and people wanted some of their local routes converted to them. Downside was they also put them on heavy trunk routes and they got over subscribed with passengers. When low floor buses came along, that was a different feat due to the flat floor and many could not grasp the concept of getting on board with no central grabrail in the doorway or a step to go up onto. Stagecoach really jazzed things up when they introduced the corporate turning ball interior back in late 2000. I remember many passengers made so much comments about it, the floor was one that wowed them, the interior was like no other. 20 years later it still does not look dated. However this did not attract people to buses in droves. Some people did not even care. I drove brand new buses on their first day in service and people dumped rubbish etc and treated the bus like it was a piece of crap sadly. The BYD buses may be good, but they still lack a great deal. On the deckers the lack of a lower deck rear window is a step backwards of the first ALX400 and Optare Spectra LFDD's with no lower deck rear window. Even worse they could have easily fitted a TV screen at the lower deck rear and use the reverse cctv camera to show on this. But they are a new concept for many people, there are hardly any all electric buses in South East London at the moment. I think most people would agree that all electric buses have a far better ride quality so why would you not want to draw peoples attention to the fact that they are electric buses instead of disguising them as bog standard buses? A bit of branding on the side costs virtually nothing. Obviously there are other areas where things can be improved and nobody is suggesting that this is a silver bullet solution but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Or maybe TfL don't want to get people back onto buses in which case leave things as they are now and let the spiral of falling passenger numbers and cuts in services continue. Anyway let's see what the new 63 contract brings. And I agree that the lack of a lower deck rear window on the BYD is a retrograde step and that's something else that needs to be looked at. I disagree about ride quality, it is not all that fantastic. It has that jerky chicken head movement when you go on and off the gas with the BYD E400, the same with the E400 city. The B5TLH hybrid is much better at the 0-5 mph on and off throttle. You have missed the plot, most people couldn't care if it was powered by electric or cyanide. It is down to the experience of getting from A-B within a set amount of time and cost, along with the environment inside the interior of the bus.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 18, 2021 0:13:00 GMT
I rarely use taxis, but if I ever need one I would still choose a local taxi over Uburp even if it was twice the price. I hate them with a vengeance. Parasites. Bit harsh? I don't often use taxis either but on the odd occasions I've used uber I've never had any problems. Whilst on the subject of minicabs.... London minicab drought: Poor pay rates or spike in demand?A minicab drought is afflicting passengers, with scores of social media complaints of rides being unavailable or cancelled at the last minute.www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58903138
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Post by greenboy on Oct 18, 2021 6:10:42 GMT
But they are a new concept for many people, there are hardly any all electric buses in South East London at the moment. I think most people would agree that all electric buses have a far better ride quality so why would you not want to draw peoples attention to the fact that they are electric buses instead of disguising them as bog standard buses? A bit of branding on the side costs virtually nothing. Obviously there are other areas where things can be improved and nobody is suggesting that this is a silver bullet solution but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Or maybe TfL don't want to get people back onto buses in which case leave things as they are now and let the spiral of falling passenger numbers and cuts in services continue. Anyway let's see what the new 63 contract brings. And I agree that the lack of a lower deck rear window on the BYD is a retrograde step and that's something else that needs to be looked at. I disagree about ride quality, it is not all that fantastic. It has that jerky chicken head movement when you go on and off the gas with the BYD E400, the same with the E400 city. The B5TLH hybrid is much better at the 0-5 mph on and off throttle. You have missed the plot, most people couldn't care if it was powered by electric or cyanide. It is down to the experience of getting from A-B within a set amount of time and cost, along with the environment inside the interior of the bus. So operators like Lothian who actually try and promote bus travel are wasting their time? I think it's you that's missing the point. youtu.be/wW7j1WIt7UU
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 18, 2021 8:10:28 GMT
The buses are a trial batch to assess the proposed features. Therefore, the seating is a difference. (Not sure how you know what he was talking about unless you're a mind reader.) It's not a trial batch for that feature as all of the RATP DD EVs and the 69s EVs downstairs have this feature. If it was a trial they wouldn't already be rolled out. I thought the removal of the centre rear seat was actually a safety feature and part of the 2021 TFL Bus Safety Standard?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 18, 2021 12:02:18 GMT
I disagree about ride quality, it is not all that fantastic. It has that jerky chicken head movement when you go on and off the gas with the BYD E400, the same with the E400 city. The B5TLH hybrid is much better at the 0-5 mph on and off throttle. You have missed the plot, most people couldn't care if it was powered by electric or cyanide. It is down to the experience of getting from A-B within a set amount of time and cost, along with the environment inside the interior of the bus. So operators like Lothian who actually try and promote bus travel are wasting their time? I think it's you that's missing the point. youtu.be/wW7j1WIt7UUYes they are wasting their time if it is on the basis you believe that would encourage people to go onto the bus. If it was something that was gaining masses of new customers to use the bus, then I am sure virtually every operator up and down the land would be doing it.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 18, 2021 12:08:54 GMT
So operators like Lothian who actually try and promote bus travel are wasting their time? I think it's you that's missing the point. youtu.be/wW7j1WIt7UUYes they are wasting their time if it is on the basis you believe that would encourage people to go onto the bus. If it was something that was gaining masses of new customers to use the bus, then I am sure virtually every operator up and down the land would be doing it. Well that's just it, every operator outside of TfL land has advertised the fact that they are all electric buses.
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Post by WH241 on Oct 18, 2021 12:52:17 GMT
Yes they are wasting their time if it is on the basis you believe that would encourage people to go onto the bus. If it was something that was gaining masses of new customers to use the bus, then I am sure virtually every operator up and down the land would be doing it. Well that's just it, every operator outside of TfL land has advertised the fact that they are all electric buses. London is different to the rest of the country so don't see why you keep trying to compare what other places do. Its funny places considering franchise models are looking at what we do in London! Our services are more frequent compared to other places. We only have one livery with no local branding, no special fares or promotions the list goes on. No amount of branding is going to create a massive uptake in passenger numbers! As I said the other day a bus not constantly regulated is what passengers want.
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 18, 2021 13:05:51 GMT
Well that's just it, every operator outside of TfL land has advertised the fact that they are all electric buses. London is different to the rest of the country so don't see why you keep trying to compare what other places do. Its funny places considering franchise models are looking at what we do in London! Our services are more frequent compared to other places. We only have one livery with no local branding, no special fares or promotions the list goes on. No amount of branding is going to create a massive uptake in passenger numbers! As I said the other day a bus not constantly regulated is what passengers want. It is a franchise model, but it is those with the revenue risk that are doing the promoting. They say there is no such thing as bad advertising, so publicising your green credentials in this day and age can only be a good thing. Just look at the number of eco protestors, green credentials is something the public want to hear about. TfL are the party taking the revenue risk, so why should they not promote their service making it more attractive. I do agree though TfL need to do more than just put a few logos on bus to make it even more attractive, but don't understand all this reluctance to announce positive news. I never accept the London is different to the rest of UK, Europe, World argument. There are always examples out there we can learn from unless you are the world leader, and think we all agree TfL buses are far from world leaders. If other cities want a model that is losing money hand over fist, and driving passengers away, then yes, London is a good role model .... but is not one I would look to replicate.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 18, 2021 13:22:04 GMT
London is different to the rest of the country so don't see why you keep trying to compare what other places do. Its funny places considering franchise models are looking at what we do in London! Our services are more frequent compared to other places. We only have one livery with no local branding, no special fares or promotions the list goes on. No amount of branding is going to create a massive uptake in passenger numbers! As I said the other day a bus not constantly regulated is what passengers want. It is a franchise model, but it is those with the revenue risk that are doing the promoting. They say there is no such thing as bad advertising, so publicising your green credentials in this day and age can only be a good thing. Just look at the number of eco protestors, green credentials is something the public want to hear about. TfL are the party taking the revenue risk, so why should they not promote their service making it more attractive. I do agree though TfL need to do more than just put a few logos on bus to make it even more attractive, but don't understand all this reluctance to announce positive news. I never accept the London is different to the rest of UK, Europe, World argument. There are always examples out there we can learn from unless you are the world leader, and think we all agree TfL buses are far from world leaders. Just to reiterate nobody is suggesting that a few logos on buses is all that TfL need to do but it's certainly a step in the right direction, what harm can a bit of free advertising do? This claim that London is somehow different to everywhere else is ludicrous and TfL should be doing all they can to advertise their services, obviously there is no incentive for operators to do so off their own bat, they just do what TfL specify and keep the money rolling in.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 18, 2021 13:24:39 GMT
London is different to the rest of the country so don't see why you keep trying to compare what other places do. Its funny places considering franchise models are looking at what we do in London! Our services are more frequent compared to other places. We only have one livery with no local branding, no special fares or promotions the list goes on. No amount of branding is going to create a massive uptake in passenger numbers! As I said the other day a bus not constantly regulated is what passengers want. It is a franchise model, but it is those with the revenue risk that are doing the promoting. They say there is no such thing as bad advertising, so publicising your green credentials in this day and age can only be a good thing. Just look at the number of eco protestors, green credentials is something the public want to hear about. TfL are the party taking the revenue risk, so why should they not promote their service making it more attractive. I do agree though TfL need to do more than just put a few logos on bus to make it even more attractive, but don't understand all this reluctance to announce positive news. I never accept the London is different to the rest of UK, Europe, World argument. There are always examples out there we can learn from unless you are the world leader, and think we all agree TfL buses are far from world leaders. If other cities want a model that is losing money hand over fist, and driving passengers away, then yes, London is a good role model .... but is not one I would look to replicate. No amount of promotion of green buses will change the average joes opinion of buses and bring riders back when buses are viewed as slow, unreliable and over regulated when compared to other transport modes. TfL needs to sort the fundamental problems that exist with buses rather than promote a gimmick.
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 18, 2021 13:32:38 GMT
It is a franchise model, but it is those with the revenue risk that are doing the promoting. They say there is no such thing as bad advertising, so publicising your green credentials in this day and age can only be a good thing. Just look at the number of eco protestors, green credentials is something the public want to hear about. TfL are the party taking the revenue risk, so why should they not promote their service making it more attractive. I do agree though TfL need to do more than just put a few logos on bus to make it even more attractive, but don't understand all this reluctance to announce positive news. I never accept the London is different to the rest of UK, Europe, World argument. There are always examples out there we can learn from unless you are the world leader, and think we all agree TfL buses are far from world leaders. Just to reiterate nobody is suggesting that a few logos on buses is all that TfL need to do but it's certainly a step in the right direction, what harm can a bit of free advertising do? This claim that London is somehow different to everywhere else is ludicrous and TfL should be doing all they can to advertise their services, obviously there is no incentive for operators to do so off their own bat, they just do what TfL specify and keep the money rolling in. Not free advertising though is it, graphic designers, layout artists, graphic appliers etc all cost money. Besides it would be an electric bus advertising itself, that makes zero sense, if you’re taking the bus you’re already on it so why does it need to be advertised to you?
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Post by greenboy on Oct 18, 2021 13:39:51 GMT
Just to reiterate nobody is suggesting that a few logos on buses is all that TfL need to do but it's certainly a step in the right direction, what harm can a bit of free advertising do? This claim that London is somehow different to everywhere else is ludicrous and TfL should be doing all they can to advertise their services, obviously there is no incentive for operators to do so off their own bat, they just do what TfL specify and keep the money rolling in. Not free advertising though is it, graphic designers, layout artists, graphic appliers etc all cost money. Besides it would be an electric bus advertising itself, that makes zero sense, if you’re taking the bus you’re already on it so why does it need to be advertised to you? Do you really think bus operators apply branding just because they think it looks nice? They do it because it brings in custom, just like many tradesmen have advertising on their vans. It's you that's making "zero sense".... the advertising is aimed at all the potential customers on the street, not the person already on the bus!!
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 18, 2021 13:43:38 GMT
It is a franchise model, but it is those with the revenue risk that are doing the promoting. They say there is no such thing as bad advertising, so publicising your green credentials in this day and age can only be a good thing. Just look at the number of eco protestors, green credentials is something the public want to hear about. TfL are the party taking the revenue risk, so why should they not promote their service making it more attractive. I do agree though TfL need to do more than just put a few logos on bus to make it even more attractive, but don't understand all this reluctance to announce positive news. I never accept the London is different to the rest of UK, Europe, World argument. There are always examples out there we can learn from unless you are the world leader, and think we all agree TfL buses are far from world leaders. If other cities want a model that is losing money hand over fist, and driving passengers away, then yes, London is a good role model .... but is not one I would look to replicate. No amount of promotion of green buses will change the average joes opinion of buses and bring riders back when buses are viewed as slow, unreliable and over regulated when compared to other transport modes. TfL needs to sort the fundamental problems that exist with buses rather than promote a gimmick. As a public body, do you not think public bodies have a duty to promote their green credentials, or continue to appear this carbon producing dinosaur?
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 18, 2021 13:49:55 GMT
Just to reiterate nobody is suggesting that a few logos on buses is all that TfL need to do but it's certainly a step in the right direction, what harm can a bit of free advertising do? This claim that London is somehow different to everywhere else is ludicrous and TfL should be doing all they can to advertise their services, obviously there is no incentive for operators to do so off their own bat, they just do what TfL specify and keep the money rolling in. Not free advertising though is it, graphic designers, layout artists, graphic appliers etc all cost money. Besides it would be an electric bus advertising itself, that makes zero sense, if you’re taking the bus you’re already on it so why does it need to be advertised to you? Why do advertisers pay for all-over ads if it is such a bad medium to get your message across? If you put the requirement in a contract you only have one off cost to worry about, then your costs are negligible. The trouble is how do you measure how successful the campaign is to say that it make zero sense. If advertising them makes zero sense, why go to the extra expense of having them ... might as well stick to the diesels, if to do not want to promote your additional investment. If you are going to invest in expensive electric vehicles and not tell anyone about them, why bother? Your argument comes across as to why we are evening bothering with electric vehicles.
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