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Post by marlon101 on Apr 25, 2013 18:46:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 20:10:10 GMT
Of course, this is just fantasy and unlikely to ever happen, but I'd quite like to see a 343/443 arrangement like those on the 36, 53, 63 - running between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham via the 343 routing. Would provide an alternative to the 484 as well as covering most of the 343 and providing an alternative bus for the unique areas on the 343. That would sort the overcrowding issues. As for the performance issues, that seems to just be a result of Peckham traffic etc. Only solution to that is probably a better padded timetable. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 25, 2013 20:37:17 GMT
Of course, this is just fantasy and unlikely to ever happen, but I'd quite like to see a 343/443 arrangement like those on the 36, 53, 63 - running between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham via the 343 routing. Would provide an alternative to the 484 as well as covering most of the 343 and providing an alternative bus for the unique areas on the 343. That would sort the overcrowding issues. As for the performance issues, that seems to just be a result of Peckham traffic etc. Only solution to that is probably a better padded timetable. Or........could we not just nuke Peckham ;D On a serious note, how bad are the problems on the 343? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 22:24:30 GMT
Of course, this is just fantasy and unlikely to ever happen, but I'd quite like to see a 343/443 arrangement like those on the 36, 53, 63 - running between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham via the 343 routing. Would provide an alternative to the 484 as well as covering most of the 343 and providing an alternative bus for the unique areas on the 343. That would sort the overcrowding issues. As for the performance issues, that seems to just be a result of Peckham traffic etc. Only solution to that is probably a better padded timetable. Or........could we not just nuke Peckham ;D On a serious note, how bad are the problems on the 343? The route was meant to be one of the worst/most complained about under London General. Seems it's still pretty bad - it's a lone route covering large residential areas that gets stuck in Peckham and London Bridge. I can understand why people probably aren't happy with it. |
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Post by moz on Apr 25, 2013 22:35:54 GMT
I've already said on here that the 343 suffers from two standalone sections that then feed into the traffic chaos around Borough and London Bridge to serve City Hall. The best thing to do would probably be the least popular and that would be to cut it back from City Hall to Elephant & Castle (363 stand) with the 363 being extended up to City Hall via the 343. This would allow the 343 to concentrate on the standalone bits but without causing too much hardship as the 363 follows or has nearby parallels with the 343 between Peckham Rye and Elephant. It would also introduce a new round the corner link from Old Kent Road into Newington Causeway. Might not seem like much but there are plenty of people who make that long walk every day to change buses.
On this subject, something that turned right from the Tabernacle (Southern Roundabout) into Old Kent Road would probably also be useful. I know the 415 is already slated for an extension to Surrey Canal Road Station 'when' it is built, but a short extension to Bricklayers Arms or Tesco's in the meantime could help things here.
Moz
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Post by snoggle on Apr 25, 2013 22:38:19 GMT
On a serious note, how bad are the problems on the 343? I do not know but there has been a never ending succession of Mayor's Questions about bus routes serving North Peckham including the 343. There is the famous Youtube video of 63s and 363s driving past stops in North Peckham or else stopping only to allow one or two people on board during the AM peak. My guess is that TfL have felt that they could tweak the peak hour frequency / schedule very slightly and the issue would go away. I don't know if the 343 is chronically unreliable or if demand is simply way in excess of capacity but there has been a misjudgement as to the strength of feeling. You can guarantee that Val Shawcross will not stop until there is a substantive change in service level. Depending on the demand I would be tempted to do a tidal flow service with a lower frequency from City Hall to Peckham in the AM peak allowing some buses to run empty back to Peckham to bolster the frequency from Peckham to City Hall. The fundamental question, though, is where will the money come from and what bit of London is going to have their buses cut or proposed improvement abandoned to find the money for improving the 343? This sort of problem is why it is so wrong for there to be no money, for what will be 7 years by the time we reach 2015, for substantive bus service improvements. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2013 23:07:00 GMT
On a serious note, how bad are the problems on the 343? I do not know but there has been a never ending succession of Mayor's Questions about bus routes serving North Peckham including the 343. There is the famous Youtube video of 63s and 363s driving past stops in North Peckham or else stopping only to allow one or two people on board during the AM peak. My guess is that TfL have felt that they could tweak the peak hour frequency / schedule very slightly and the issue would go away. I don't know if the 343 is chronically unreliable or if demand is simply way in excess of capacity but there has been a misjudgement as to the strength of feeling. You can guarantee that Val Shawcross will not stop until there is a substantive change in service level. Depending on the demand I would be tempted to do a tidal flow service with a lower frequency from City Hall to Peckham in the AM peak allowing some buses to run empty back to Peckham to bolster the frequency from Peckham to City Hall. The fundamental question, though, is where will the money come from and what bit of London is going to have their buses cut or proposed improvement abandoned to find the money for improving the 343? This sort of problem is why it is so wrong for there to be no money, for what will be 7 years by the time we reach 2015, for substantive bus service improvements. What was most striking about the 63/363 is that even on fairly high frequencies (you see in the video buses turning up within minutes of each other) all the buses were full. The 63 runs a 5-min frequency in the peaks, and the 363 has a 10-min frequency. It's what I call "25 Syndrome" - a corridor so busy that even on generous frequencies it still struggles. The same sort of situation seems to apply to the 343. The frequency on the route is around 6 minutes, but because of its unique sections it still has capacity issues. The only way to solve that is probably a significant frequency/capacity increase in the peaks. TFL generally do seem to keep an eye on "service tailored to demand" - the 38's 10 bus PVR decrease represented enough buses to run a whole new route! The problem certainly is the lack of attention buses are given - I'm not convinced at all there's an overall funding problem, especially as money always seems to be found when there's the greatest will for it to be found! On another note, sister route 484 seems to suffer even more than the 343 sometimes. I'm glad I'm not a regular passenger on there... |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 25, 2013 23:42:31 GMT
I do not know but there has been a never ending succession of Mayor's Questions about bus routes serving North Peckham including the 343. There is the famous Youtube video of 63s and 363s driving past stops in North Peckham or else stopping only to allow one or two people on board during the AM peak. My guess is that TfL have felt that they could tweak the peak hour frequency / schedule very slightly and the issue would go away. I don't know if the 343 is chronically unreliable or if demand is simply way in excess of capacity but there has been a misjudgement as to the strength of feeling. You can guarantee that Val Shawcross will not stop until there is a substantive change in service level. Depending on the demand I would be tempted to do a tidal flow service with a lower frequency from City Hall to Peckham in the AM peak allowing some buses to run empty back to Peckham to bolster the frequency from Peckham to City Hall. The fundamental question, though, is where will the money come from and what bit of London is going to have their buses cut or proposed improvement abandoned to find the money for improving the 343? This sort of problem is why it is so wrong for there to be no money, for what will be 7 years by the time we reach 2015, for substantive bus service improvements. What was most striking about the 63/363 is that even on fairly high frequencies (you see in the video buses turning up within minutes of each other) all the buses were full. The 63 runs a 5-min frequency in the peaks, and the 363 has a 10-min frequency. It's what I call "25 Syndrome" - a corridor so busy that even on generous frequencies it still struggles. The same sort of situation seems to apply to the 343. The frequency on the route is around 6 minutes, but because of its unique sections it still has capacity issues. The only way to solve that is probably a significant frequency/capacity increase in the peaks. TFL generally do seem to keep an eye on "service tailored to demand" - the 38's 10 bus PVR decrease represented enough buses to run a whole new route! The problem certainly is the lack of attention buses are given - I'm not convinced at all there's an overall funding problem, especially as money always seems to be found when there's the greatest will for it to be found! On another note, sister route 484 seems to suffer even more than the 343 sometimes. I'm glad I'm not a regular passenger on there... Well there is possible a very hidden subtext to the demands which is that North Peckham was, of course, going to be served by the Cross River Tram. Peckham is not unique in having such massive transport demand - it happens across the capital but there is little or no imagination from anyone as to how you solve that problem. Running more and more diesel buses runs counter to the demands to reduction pollution. Coming back to the buses the money issue is set by policy and budget. There is a clear policy of no improvements without a trade off somewhere else. The budget and related business plan shows a *reduction* of 1 million kms per annum operated by 2015 when set against the 2012/13 budget. When you consider the extra mileage that will go into the Olympic Park changes you do have to wonder what else will give to create the slack. Any major organisation will have budget contingency to deal with unexpected events so yes money can be found - provided the spend is justified. I somehow doubt dealing with the 343 issue would warrant use of contingency - much more likely that the budget holder is told to manage within their existing forecast and trim from elsewhere. It is just ridiculous to have a forecast increase of 38 million extra passenger journeys in 1 year and no substantive increase in capacity where it is needed. While starting from a higher base the total forecast increase on the buses is higher than the total increase for all the other TfL modes. Forcing people to crush on to overloaded buses in the peak and sometimes off peak is no way to encourage people to use public transport. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 10:43:42 GMT
Of course, this is just fantasy and unlikely to ever happen, but I'd quite like to see a 343/443 arrangement like those on the 36, 53, 63 - running between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham via the 343 routing. Would provide an alternative to the 484 as well as covering most of the 343 and providing an alternative bus for the unique areas on the 343. That would sort the overcrowding issues. As for the performance issues, that seems to just be a result of Peckham traffic etc. Only solution to that is probably a better padded timetable. Yes that idea makes a lot of sense. Instead of the 343 turning left out of Southampton Way to Peckham it could turn right to Camberwell Green and maybe KC Hospital, if stand space can be found, giving a useful link to that area. The 443 could be E&C to Lewisham, provides a link between the two although obviously not by a very direct route. I've always thought 453 should go to Lewisham to provide that link and the 21 to Deptford Bridge. Maybe I'm a bit cynical but I can't help thinking that performance issues are down to Abellio, other routes through Peckham seem to be generally ok. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2013 18:49:11 GMT
Of course, this is just fantasy and unlikely to ever happen, but I'd quite like to see a 343/443 arrangement like those on the 36, 53, 63 - running between Elephant and Castle and Lewisham via the 343 routing. Would provide an alternative to the 484 as well as covering most of the 343 and providing an alternative bus for the unique areas on the 343. That would sort the overcrowding issues. As for the performance issues, that seems to just be a result of Peckham traffic etc. Only solution to that is probably a better padded timetable. Yes that idea makes a lot of sense. Instead of the 343 turning left out of Southampton Way to Peckham it could turn right to Camberwell Green and maybe KC Hospital, if stand space can be found, giving a useful link to that area. The 443 could be E&C to Lewisham, provides a link between the two although obviously not by a very direct route. I've always thought 453 should go to Lewisham to provide that link and the 21 to Deptford Bridge. Maybe I'm a bit cynical but I can't help thinking that performance issues are down to Abellio, other routes through Peckham seem to be generally ok. I'm sure the same problems were around under London Central - it was one of the worst-performing routes under them if I remember rightly. I had always thought the 453 should go to Lewisham. The 453 provides far more useful links than the 21 - Elephant, Waterloo and Oxford Circus in particular. Meanwhile London Bridge and Monument are already covered by the 47. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 26, 2013 19:38:17 GMT
Yes that idea makes a lot of sense. Instead of the 343 turning left out of Southampton Way to Peckham it could turn right to Camberwell Green and maybe KC Hospital, if stand space can be found, giving a useful link to that area. The 443 could be E&C to Lewisham, provides a link between the two although obviously not by a very direct route. I've always thought 453 should go to Lewisham to provide that link and the 21 to Deptford Bridge. Maybe I'm a bit cynical but I can't help thinking that performance issues are down to Abellio, other routes through Peckham seem to be generally ok. I'm sure the same problems were around under London Central - it was one of the worst-performing routes under them if I remember rightly. I had always thought the 453 should go to Lewisham. The 453 provides far more useful links than the 21 - Elephant, Waterloo and Oxford Circus in particular. Meanwhile London Bridge and Monument are already covered by the 47. I think when it was the P3 running from New Cross to London Bridge under Stagecoach Selkent, it ran ok - certainly from my own observations. I can only guess that route traffic grew since then. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2013 13:31:03 GMT
Divert the 148 via the 343 to Peckham Rye , divert 211 at county hall to camberwell green via the 12 and extend the C1 back to Waterloo.
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Post by guybowden on Apr 27, 2013 14:15:10 GMT
A possible solution could be to create a new route that starts at Waterloo go along Stamford Street to Borough and serve London Bridge bus station then run the same route as the 343 and finish off at Peckham bus station.
The first bus for the route could start at Peckham at 06:00, run every 10 minutes until about 09:30 then run every 20 to 25 minutes until 15:00, goes back to 10 minute frequencies until 20:00, at that time the route could finish or go back to 20 to 25 minutes frequencies until 22:00 when the route finishes.
The main problems could be stand space at Waterloo, congestion around Borough/London Bridge, Southampton Way junction with Peckham Road and of course funding for it, although I would of thought the route would pay for itself.
The route wouldn't need to go to New Cross because Peckham- New Cross are well served with other routes. Also the current 343 could terminate/stand at the Sainsbury's similar to the 321 and P13.
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Post by M1104 on Apr 27, 2013 17:03:18 GMT
From Camberwell Green, reroute the 40 right into Peckham Road, left into Southampton Way and via the 343 routing to the Elephant....thus creating at least four extra buses an hour along that corridor.
Reroute 35 to Aldgate then via 42 to terminate at Liverpool Street (35 becoming a 24 hour route Liverpool Street to Clapham Junction, N35 withdrawn)
Extend 344 to Shoreditch with N344 introduced Clapham Junction to Tottenham Court Road.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2013 17:12:30 GMT
Introduce new route 343A Peckham Bus Station to Waterloo. Every 12 minutes during the day until 20.00 hours. Every 20 minutes evenings and Sundays with double deckers.
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