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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2013 23:45:11 GMT
There would have more in north London had loughton not closed.
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Post by vjaska on May 12, 2013 23:52:44 GMT
405 Extended non stop Redhill to Gatwick Airport A stop at East Surrey Hospital would be useful as well You already have the excellent 100 running from Redhill to beyond Crawley & it serves East Surrey Hospital as well. Extending the 405 to Crawley would just make the London end unreliable. |
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Post by vjaska on May 12, 2013 23:57:13 GMT
Extending the 466 to Caterham Station is a good idea though stand space could be an issue. The current terminus of Caterham-On-The-Hill is in the middle of nowhere and the extension would have little effect to the route.
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Post by Steve80 on May 13, 2013 2:38:23 GMT
Extending the 466 to Caterham Station is a good idea though stand space could be an issue. The current terminus of Caterham-On-The-Hill is in the middle of nowhere and the extension would have little effect to the route. Considering the shops in and aroudn caterham, im suprised that the 466 doesn't run to caterham station, but there is already the 409 and 509 that does a similar trip from caterham on the hill to the station. I regularly see the 466 running light via the 407 route towards south croydon garage. I remember reading somewhere about some passengers wishing that the N68 was extended to caterham on the hill. I don't know too much about the 403 but an extension to westerham sounds like a good idea. I remember the old 23 from kentish bus used to do a similar trip from croydon to westerham |
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Post by ServerKing on May 13, 2013 6:45:03 GMT
Great ideas but if you look at the bigger picture. No county council out of London would subsidise a tfl route in there area so is it left to TFL ( no spare money there) or the council tax payer to subsidise in a route which is out of there control. Yes boris wants more out of greater london rail routes. But by operating out of london you are creating competition with the outer area commercial company's. I believe the current cross boundary routes are in the right places. If you disagree then lobby for the boundarys to moved further back. If someone could let the dreamers at TfL know this it'd be great... TfL are taking control of Greater Anglia services to Hertford next year - and I heard that one Southern route might be taken over - it will be strange seeing a Roundel out in Hertford East next year  so it seems TfL have (our) money at their disposal if they chose to fund services across county boundaries  |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 7:44:06 GMT
A stop at East Surrey Hospital would be useful as well You already have the excellent 100 running from Redhill to beyond Crawley & it serves East Surrey Hospital as well. Extending the 405 to Crawley would just make the London end unreliable. I'm open minded about an extension to Gatwick but if its gonna go there it may as well serve ESH on the way, a lot of people from Croydon end go to the hospital. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 7:48:53 GMT
Extending the 466 to Caterham Station is a good idea though stand space could be an issue. The current terminus of Caterham-On-The-Hill is in the middle of nowhere and the extension would have little effect to the route. Considering the shops in and aroudn caterham, im suprised that the 466 doesn't run to caterham station, but there is already the 409 and 509 that does a similar trip from caterham on the hill to the station. I regularly see the 466 running light via the 407 route towards south croydon garage. I remember reading somewhere about some passengers wishing that the N68 was extended to caterham on the hill. I don't know too much about the 403 but an extension to westerham sounds like a good idea. I remember the old 23 from kentish bus used to do a similar trip from croydon to westerham The old 23 (previously numbered 483) used to go to on to Sevenoaks. I'd certainly agree about the 466 and N68 ideas. |
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Post by vjaska on May 13, 2013 9:08:36 GMT
You already have the excellent 100 running from Redhill to beyond Crawley & it serves East Surrey Hospital as well. Extending the 405 to Crawley would just make the London end unreliable. I'm open minded about an extension to Gatwick but if its gonna go there it may as well serve ESH on the way, a lot of people from Croydon end go to the hospital. If that's the case, why not just terminate it at the East Surrey Hospital as its not far outside of Redhill. |
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Post by snoggle on May 13, 2013 10:10:38 GMT
Great ideas but if you look at the bigger picture. No county council out of London would subsidise a tfl route in there area so is it left to TFL ( no spare money there) or the council tax payer to subsidise in a route which is out of there control. Yes boris wants more out of greater london rail routes. But by operating out of london you are creating competition with the outer area commercial company's. I believe the current cross boundary routes are in the right places. If you disagree then lobby for the boundarys to moved further back. If someone could let the dreamers at TfL know this it'd be great... TfL are taking control of Greater Anglia services to Hertford next year - and I heard that one Southern route might be taken over - it will be strange seeing a Roundel out in Hertford East next year so it seems TfL have (our) money at their disposal if they chose to fund services across county boundaries I don't think those comments are particularly fair. TfL only do what the Mayor wants. The Mayor has an area of "extended responsibility" where he can influence service provision - primarily for rail services but not exclusively. The rail network has natural turning points for services and it would be ludicrous for TfL controlled services to stop at an artificial county boundary when there are long established service patterns to points over the boundary. I don't see the people of Brentwood or Waltham Cross demanding the removal of PAYG on their rail services?! There would rightly be loud complaints if TfL terminated Greater Anglia services somewhere between Brimsdown and Waltham Cross or beside the M25 on the Shenfield route. The decision on whether to devolve rail services to TfL has not yet been taken but might happen by June this year. It will probably take 15-18 months for any change of control to happen so we're talking about 2015 before anything obvious happens on the Lea Valley route. Liv St - Shenfield services transfer to Crossrail in 2015 and that is definite. Heathrow Connect transfers at a later date but before any tunnel opens under London. I don't see TfL taking on responsibility for more bus services outside Greater London as there is no policy for it, no money and I expect existing operators would complain if a TfL subsidised route turned up. However I rather expect passengers might like to have a comprehensive 7 day a week service which is what TfL usually provides. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 10:15:22 GMT
I'm open minded about an extension to Gatwick but if its gonna go there it may as well serve ESH on the way, a lot of people from Croydon end go to the hospital. If that's the case, why not just terminate it at the East Surrey Hospital as its not far outside of Redhill. Yes that would be another option. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 10:49:21 GMT
If someone could let the dreamers at TfL know this it'd be great... TfL are taking control of Greater Anglia services to Hertford next year - and I heard that one Southern route might be taken over - it will be strange seeing a Roundel out in Hertford East next year so it seems TfL have (our) money at their disposal if they chose to fund services across county boundaries I don't think those comments are particularly fair. TfL only do what the Mayor wants. The Mayor has an area of "extended responsibility" where he can influence service provision - primarily for rail services but not exclusively. The rail network has natural turning points for services and it would be ludicrous for TfL controlled services to stop at an artificial county boundary when there are long established service patterns to points over the boundary. I don't see the people of Brentwood or Waltham Cross demanding the removal of PAYG on their rail services?! There would rightly be loud complaints if TfL terminated Greater Anglia services somewhere between Brimsdown and Waltham Cross or beside the M25 on the Shenfield route. The decision on whether to devolve rail services to TfL has not yet been taken but might happen by June this year. It will probably take 15-18 months for any change of control to happen so we're talking about 2015 before anything obvious happens on the Lea Valley route. Liv St - Shenfield services transfer to Crossrail in 2015 and that is definite. Heathrow Connect transfers at a later date but before any tunnel opens under London. I don't see TfL taking on responsibility for more bus services outside Greater London as there is no policy for it, no money and I expect existing operators would complain if a TfL subsidised route turned up. However I rather expect passengers might like to have a comprehensive 7 day a week service which is what TfL usually provides. I don't particularly reckon TFL are interested in more cross-border services either. I made an effort to compile a spreadsheet of cross-border services in London the other week, and including schools and night routes (and all services that go just about over the border) there are around 60. A lot of the TFL-funded cross-border routes do provide reasonable interchange with services further outwards, and I've regularly travelled all the way to Oxted only using three or four bus routes from my house, nowhere near the border. There are options there and I personally don't feel there's a need to expand the cross-border network though I agree there are some areas where it's a bit patchy (and others like Waltham Cross and Staines where there's a good amount of meeting up between TFL services and commercial services) |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 12:44:56 GMT
I don't think those comments are particularly fair. TfL only do what the Mayor wants. The Mayor has an area of "extended responsibility" where he can influence service provision - primarily for rail services but not exclusively. The rail network has natural turning points for services and it would be ludicrous for TfL controlled services to stop at an artificial county boundary when there are long established service patterns to points over the boundary. Also the funding of rail services is different to buses. Routes are either profitable and operators pay to run them, or make a loss and are subsidised by central government. TfL receive specific grants towards the Overground routes they have already taken over, and this will be the same for West Anglia or any other routes they may operate. So the cost burden of cross-border services will not be on TfL or London tax payers. As for such an idea coming rom the mayor, it is also worth noting that this was also a desire of Livingstone when he was in office, so it is a policy supported by both major parties. And it is not like TfL do not already operate cross-border rail services to Hertfordshire (Watford Junction on the Overground) as well as Central and Metropolitan line tube services in to Essex and Buckinghamshire. Running into Hertford East would not be that different to those. But it should be a benefit to the almost 30 stations in north London who services will have TfL's direct attention, unlike with Greater Anglia whose priority are the more lucrative Stansted Express and longer distance commuters from Cambridge and Chelmsford and beyond. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 13:47:53 GMT
Why not unify Watford into a TFL area as everywhere inside the M25 should have a TFL service.
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Post by ServerKing on May 13, 2013 14:54:23 GMT
If someone could let the dreamers at TfL know this it'd be great... TfL are taking control of Greater Anglia services to Hertford next year - and I heard that one Southern route might be taken over - it will be strange seeing a Roundel out in Hertford East next year so it seems TfL have (our) money at their disposal if they chose to fund services across county boundaries I don't think those comments are particularly fair. TfL only do what the Mayor wants. The Mayor has an area of "extended responsibility" where he can influence service provision - primarily for rail services but not exclusively. The rail network has natural turning points for services and it would be ludicrous for TfL controlled services to stop at an artificial county boundary when there are long established service patterns to points over the boundary. I don't see the people of Brentwood or Waltham Cross demanding the removal of PAYG on their rail services?! There would rightly be loud complaints if TfL terminated Greater Anglia services somewhere between Brimsdown and Waltham Cross or beside the M25 on the Shenfield route. The decision on whether to devolve rail services to TfL has not yet been taken but might happen by June this year. It will probably take 15-18 months for any change of control to happen so we're talking about 2015 before anything obvious happens on the Lea Valley route. Liv St - Shenfield services transfer to Crossrail in 2015 and that is definite. Heathrow Connect transfers at a later date but before any tunnel opens under London. I don't see TfL taking on responsibility for more bus services outside Greater London as there is no policy for it, no money and I expect existing operators would complain if a TfL subsidised route turned up. However I rather expect passengers might like to have a comprehensive 7 day a week service which is what TfL usually provides. GA suburban routes will change over to TfL on the Lea Valley lines this year. That was confirmed by ticket machine staff at Tottenham Hale (I look after the ticket machines there  ) They will be TUPE'd across from June and will come under TFL. I was being facetious, hopefully TfL will rid us of the awful Class 317's and get us 378's for the line  |
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Post by snoggle on May 13, 2013 15:24:22 GMT
GA suburban routes will change over to TfL on the Lea Valley lines this year. That was confirmed by ticket machine staff at Tottenham Hale (I look after the ticket machines there ) They will be TUPE'd across from June and will come under TFL. I was being facetious, hopefully TfL will rid us of the awful Class 317's and get us 378's for the line Sorry to be argumentative but I find this somewhat unbelieveable. If the devolution decision had been taken the Mayor and TfL would have been broadcasting it from the rooftops. Sir Peter Hendy denied any decision had been taken when he sat in front of the Transport Committee a few weeks ago. I do not think he would lie to the Committee because he would be severely criticised when the truth eventually emerged. TUPE requires a 90 day consultation period which implies this was all done and dusted back in March and the news would have leaked by now. I think this is canteen gossip and wishful thinking *unless* some other odd thing is being done purely about staffing at Tottenham Hale but I don't see why LU would wish to take responsibility for the NR platforms and buildings especially as it is up for redevelopment *and* the bus station is going to smashed to bits in a few months time. |
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so it seems TfL have (our) money at their disposal if they chose to fund services across county boundaries 
) They will be TUPE'd across from June and will come under TFL. I was being facetious, hopefully TfL will rid us of the awful Class 317's and get us 378's for the line 