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Post by ServerKing on May 13, 2013 15:31:26 GMT
GA suburban routes will change over to TfL on the Lea Valley lines this year. That was confirmed by ticket machine staff at Tottenham Hale (I look after the ticket machines there  ) They will be TUPE'd across from June and will come under TFL. I was being facetious, hopefully TfL will rid us of the awful Class 317's and get us 378's for the line  Sorry to be argumentative but I find this somewhat unbelieveable. If the devolution decision had been taken the Mayor and TfL would have been broadcasting it from the rooftops. Sir Peter Hendy denied any decision had been taken when he sat in front of the Transport Committee a few weeks ago. I do not think he would lie to the Committee because he would be severely criticised when the truth eventually emerged. TUPE requires a 90 day consultation period which implies this was all done and dusted back in March and the news would have leaked by now. I think this is canteen gossip and wishful thinking *unless* some other odd thing is being done purely about staffing at Tottenham Hale but I don't see why LU would wish to take responsibility for the NR platforms and buildings especially as it is up for redevelopment *and* the bus station is going to smashed to bits in a few months time. I doubt the lady on the ticket desk pulled that out of a hat  It may be more in line with the re-modelling at Tottenham Hale, and the current shared ticket desk between GA and TFL will be merged, but there was definite talk about the Metro services transferring shortly  It is a weird setup at Tottenham Hale, it is actually a TFL station that Greater Anglia use (you have to sign in at LUL before doing any work for GA  ), it's been like that for years, where other stations on the line come under Greater Anglia, not TFL. The current bus station is awful at Tottenham Hale, the way the 192's park is tight for any 123/230/W4 passing thru heading East  The conversion of the roads to become bi-directional is well underway, which is good |
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Post by snowman on May 13, 2013 16:14:55 GMT
GA suburban routes will change over to TfL on the Lea Valley lines this year. That was confirmed by ticket machine staff at Tottenham Hale (I look after the ticket machines there ) They will be TUPE'd across from June and will come under TFL. I was being facetious, hopefully TfL will rid us of the awful Class 317's and get us 378's for the line Sorry to be argumentative but I find this somewhat unbelieveable. If the devolution decision had been taken the Mayor and TfL would have been broadcasting it from the rooftops. Sir Peter Hendy denied any decision had been taken when he sat in front of the Transport Committee a few weeks ago. I do not think he would lie to the Committee because he would be severely criticised when the truth eventually emerged. TUPE requires a 90 day consultation period which implies this was all done and dusted back in March and the news would have leaked by now. Wrong. TUPE consultation periods vary depending upon number of people affected. If it just a handful, at one location, isn't 90 days |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 16:36:23 GMT
Why not unify Watford into a TFL area as everywhere inside the M25 should have a TFL service. The M25 isn't the London border though |
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Post by Paul on May 13, 2013 19:16:38 GMT
Provide some supplemental funding for evening and Sunday jnys on the 402 from Bromley to Sevenoaks. I've often wondered about the merits of this idea. The 402 usually has a pretty good load whenever I see it going to and from Bromley and I very much doubt they are all coming or going to/from Tunbridge Wells. The route passes through a fair chunk of residential areas between Bromley and Sevenoaks and these people would probably welcome extra journies on the 402 Or maybe I'm just being a little selfish because I'd quite like a crack at the route myself! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 19:50:48 GMT
Why not unify Watford into a TFL area as everywhere inside the M25 should have a TFL service. The M25 isn't the London border though if i had my way, i will make it a border. |
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Post by Late Again on May 13, 2013 22:37:58 GMT
I don't think those comments are particularly fair. TfL only do what the Mayor wants. The Mayor has an area of "extended responsibility" where he can influence service provision - primarily for rail services but not exclusively. The rail network has natural turning points for services and it would be ludicrous for TfL controlled services to stop at an artificial county boundary when there are long established service patterns to points over the boundary. Also the funding of rail services is different to buses. Routes are either profitable and operators pay to run them, or make a loss and are subsidised by central government. TfL receive specific grants towards the Overground routes they have already taken over, and this will be the same for West Anglia or any other routes they may operate. So the cost burden of cross-border services will not be on TfL or London tax payers. As for such an idea coming rom the mayor, it is also worth noting that this was also a desire of Livingstone when he was in office, so it is a policy supported by both major parties. And it is not like TfL do not already operate cross-border rail services to Hertfordshire (Watford Junction on the Overground) as well as Central and Metropolitan line tube services in to Essex and Buckinghamshire. Running into Hertford East would not be that different to those. But it should be a benefit to the almost 30 stations in north London who services will have TfL's direct attention, unlike with Greater Anglia whose priority are the more lucrative Stansted Express and longer distance commuters from Cambridge and Chelmsford and beyond. This may be surprising but Kent county council actually don't want tfl taking over the southeastern services in there area. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22218388 |
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Post by Late Again on May 13, 2013 22:42:06 GMT
The M25 isn't the London border though if i had my way, i will make it a border. On what basis would you change it. The Greater London boundarys have been set long before the M25 came. Also maybe the residents outside of London boundarys don't want to be part of London. For example council tax and insurance premiums would be made higher. |
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 23:41:53 GMT
Also the funding of rail services is different to buses. Routes are either profitable and operators pay to run them, or make a loss and are subsidised by central government. TfL receive specific grants towards the Overground routes they have already taken over, and this will be the same for West Anglia or any other routes they may operate. So the cost burden of cross-border services will not be on TfL or London tax payers. As for such an idea coming rom the mayor, it is also worth noting that this was also a desire of Livingstone when he was in office, so it is a policy supported by both major parties. And it is not like TfL do not already operate cross-border rail services to Hertfordshire (Watford Junction on the Overground) as well as Central and Metropolitan line tube services in to Essex and Buckinghamshire. Running into Hertford East would not be that different to those. But it should be a benefit to the almost 30 stations in north London who services will have TfL's direct attention, unlike with Greater Anglia whose priority are the more lucrative Stansted Express and longer distance commuters from Cambridge and Chelmsford and beyond. This may be surprising but Kent county council actually don't want tfl taking over the southeastern services in there area. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22218388The main concern seems to be that long distance services will suffer  |
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Post by John tuthill on May 14, 2013 10:03:20 GMT
if i had my way, i will make it a border. On what basis would you change it. The Greater London boundarys have been set long before the M25 came. Also maybe the residents outside of London boundarys don't want to be part of London. For example council tax and insurance premiums would be made higher. One of the ancient quirks of boundaries is this little gem. If you leave the M25 at junction 9, heading towards Chessington, you pass a PH called "The Star." Long before the old GLC, the boundary between Surrey & London literally passed thru' the pub! On Fridays & Saturdays, London licensing closed at 11:00pm, but Surrey still closed at 10:30(Told you it was a long time ago) So on Fridays & Saturdays the drinkers trooped out of one bar into the other. Now the whole pub comes under the Borough of Kingston |
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Post by snoggle on May 14, 2013 12:22:00 GMT
Also the funding of rail services is different to buses. Routes are either profitable and operators pay to run them, or make a loss and are subsidised by central government. TfL receive specific grants towards the Overground routes they have already taken over, and this will be the same for West Anglia or any other routes they may operate. So the cost burden of cross-border services will not be on TfL or London tax payers. As for such an idea coming rom the mayor, it is also worth noting that this was also a desire of Livingstone when he was in office, so it is a policy supported by both major parties. And it is not like TfL do not already operate cross-border rail services to Hertfordshire (Watford Junction on the Overground) as well as Central and Metropolitan line tube services in to Essex and Buckinghamshire. Running into Hertford East would not be that different to those. But it should be a benefit to the almost 30 stations in north London who services will have TfL's direct attention, unlike with Greater Anglia whose priority are the more lucrative Stansted Express and longer distance commuters from Cambridge and Chelmsford and beyond. This may be surprising but Kent county council actually don't want tfl taking over the southeastern services in there area. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-22218388On one level it is not a surprise. There have been "rumblings" from various Kent politicians about the proposals. I think they imagine that their trains are going to be managed by North Korea rather than a small subset of them being controlled by TfL. Something has gone badly wrong with the consultation and lobbying because I have watched several sessions where TfL have talked very openly about the plans. There are *no* plans to reduce peak trains or for TfL to "steal" train paths. The Office of Rail Regulation decide on such issues and they would not allow TfL to prejudice the rights of South Eastern's remaining services nor those of freight operators. The only proposals, other than station upgrades and Oyster extension, are to add some off peak services where paths are readily available and to lengthen trains to add capacity. I would have thought the residents of Kent and Medway would be relatively happy about this. To be honest the rebuilding of London Bridge is going to have by far the greater impact on Kent services for several years than anything TfL is able to do if it gains the inner suburban services. In similar vein the London Bridge project constrains what TfL could do for many years as does the timescale for procuring extra rolling stock. I personally think the Kent politicians are wrong in their belief that "their" (hah!) trains will be damaged by TfL's plans. However it is TfL's role to get the right facts across to the people with doubts. |
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Post by snoggle on May 14, 2013 13:55:41 GMT
Sorry to be argumentative but I find this somewhat unbelieveable. If the devolution decision had been taken the Mayor and TfL would have been broadcasting it from the rooftops. Sir Peter Hendy denied any decision had been taken when he sat in front of the Transport Committee a few weeks ago. I do not think he would lie to the Committee because he would be severely criticised when the truth eventually emerged. TUPE requires a 90 day consultation period which implies this was all done and dusted back in March and the news would have leaked by now. I think this is canteen gossip and wishful thinking *unless* some other odd thing is being done purely about staffing at Tottenham Hale but I don't see why LU would wish to take responsibility for the NR platforms and buildings especially as it is up for redevelopment *and* the bus station is going to smashed to bits in a few months time. I doubt the lady on the ticket desk pulled that out of a hat It may be more in line with the re-modelling at Tottenham Hale, and the current shared ticket desk between GA and TFL will be merged, but there was definite talk about the Metro services transferring shortly It is a weird setup at Tottenham Hale, it is actually a TFL station that Greater Anglia use (you have to sign in at LUL before doing any work for GA ), it's been like that for years, where other stations on the line come under Greater Anglia, not TFL. The current bus station is awful at Tottenham Hale, the way the 192's park is tight for any 123/230/W4 passing thru heading East The conversion of the roads to become bi-directional is well underway, which is good Well there are plans to rebuild the station - some of Boris's regeneration money for Tottenham is going on that. *If* that also means the entire station's operations move to TfL then that might explain the things you've heard. However that is NOT the same as the rail devolution process. I didn't know about the signing in issue at TOM. Strikes me as odd given LU does not own the NR platforms or bridge / escalator / stairs or the buildings on the n/b platform. There are certainly separate staff facilities as you will know. The new bus station plan is a mess and I've told TfL that on 3 separate occasions. Forcing everything in and out from Ferry Lane is stupid as is forcing the buses round the revised gyratory at T Hale itself. There should be an entrance and exit at both ends allowing buses to run through or use short routes to get in and out. They could easily have designed in a liight controlled turn facility from Watermead Way or even an entry / exit into the side road that will exist. Sending buses "round and round" (cue the Sugarbabes ;D ) just extends journey times. www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Tottenham_Hale_bus_station_area.pdfSo many TfL bus stations have weird layouts and twists and turns that create jams and congestion. T Hale only needs a couple of stops towards Tottenham / Wood Green, 1 towards Ilford / Walthamstow and 1 for the 192 to Enfield plus stand space. The plan shows 8 stops plus 4 traffic lanes! |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 19:44:19 GMT
I'd be interested to know how cross-border TfL routes perform financially. Routes like the 81 and 370 seem to take very good loadings and these generally have short journey times relative to route lengths due to favourable traffic conditions compared with inner London, meaning a modest PVR can provide a pretty good frequency. I wouldn't be surprised if these routes actually generate a net profit for TfL.
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Post by VPL630 on May 23, 2013 23:02:30 GMT
On your latter idea I wonder if there is some potential to play with the 347 and extend it to Grays at one end and to, say, Scratton Farm from Romford. Just run it hourly from say 0700 to 1900 M-S initially. I appreciate that's a big step up from current levels and is not direct to Dagenham but creates several links. I'd play it different from that myself. I would look at extending the 347 via Belhus towards Lakeside. Would provide North Havering a link to Lakeside in areas such as Harold Hill etc, rather than using a bus to Romford and then the 370. Based on that, I would then extend the 370 back to Grays IF a cross boundary service was to serve it. Of course there is already the 22 for local Ockendon residents so the 370 would be providing London residents. A possible extension of the 498, maybe to the Brentwood Centre, might also be a worthwhile extension, especially on big events there. One BIG extension that I would look at would be the 375 past Passingford Bridge. The first option would be for Ongar for me. No links between there and Romford and would then at least offer a link to Harlow from there. As for the Dagenham to Grays link......the 287 would be an idea option. Divert it from Rainham along the A1306 into Purfleet and onto Lakeside. Terminate that there and use the 370 from there OR alternatively extend the 372 to Grays also, allowing for a change at Rainham Tesco from the 287 to the 372. For the 498 you might as well just stick it Shenfield Station, Brentwood Centre almost no ones would want to go to that dump lol |
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Post by ServerKing on May 24, 2013 6:09:34 GMT
The new bus station plan is a mess and I've told TfL that www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/Tottenham_Hale_bus_station_area.pdfSo many TfL bus stations have weird layouts and twists and turns that create jams and congestion. T Hale only needs a couple of stops towards Tottenham / Wood Green, 1 towards Ilford / Walthamstow and 1 for the 192 to Enfield plus stand space. The plan shows 8 stops plus 4 traffic lanes! I've just been a little bit sick in my mouth That is a mess As for the ticket hall, LU own it, you have to sign in at the LU desk, then go to the Greater Anglia sign in point on the platform, then go back to the fishbowl opposite the ticket desk where you sign in, and they call the ticket desk to let you in to fix Greater Anglia's kit as they rent a desk within the LU ticket hall my head hurts If TfL takes over, at least that's one less lot of autographs needed just to fix a computer |
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Post by Swadbus on May 24, 2013 6:46:27 GMT
Guys,
TFL have no plans in place at this current time to take over the running of any national rail services at TOM. Fact.
How do I know? My partner is station supervisor at TOM for GA.
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) They will be TUPE'd across from June and will come under TFL. I was being facetious, hopefully TfL will rid us of the awful Class 317's and get us 378's for the line 
It may be more in line with the re-modelling at Tottenham Hale, and the current shared ticket desk between GA and TFL will be merged, but there was definite talk about the Metro services transferring shortly 
), it's been like that for years, where other stations on the line come under Greater Anglia, not TFL.
The conversion of the roads to become bi-directional is well underway, which is good 
