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Post by vjaska on Oct 29, 2013 11:13:00 GMT
The 172? I'm surprised by that one. I've used it on all days of the week peak, and off-peak. I'd say it was busy but not crowded - surely the crowding on the 171 is worse. Surprised the 35's not mentioned ahead of the 172. Makes one wonder who and how these figures were accumulated. It does make me wonder - particularly when a earlier report correctly mentioned the 109 has an overcrowding issue but the latest report doesn't mention it at all despite the problem not disappearing. I really do feel that bus improvements should be more concentrated to South London giving the fact they have less back up options to the bus.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2013 11:14:50 GMT
There a link of the report in this site here... www.london.gov.uk/mayor-assembly/london-assembly/publications/bus-services-in-londonIt also mentions 10 of the most crowded routes in accordance to the committee survey of bus passengers which are the 185, 208, 96, 38, 176, 172, 484, 336, 162 and 358 There also a case study of the 343 and the problems in Roehampton, a selection of passengers complaints regarding some routes including the 133 and 251. And im sure its been mentioned before but they want 1,700 hybrid vehicles (which includes 600 nbfl) by 2016. Therws currently 352 double deck hybrids and 28 single deck hybrids. The 172? I'm surprised by that one. I've used it on all days of the week peak, and off-peak. I'd say it was busy but not crowded - surely the crowding on the 171 is worse. The other suggestions don't surprise me at all - the 185 has been incredibly busy for a while, the 208 has huge Saturday crowding, the 96 gets flooded around school times, the 176 supports the 185 and provides a Central London link from an area with fairly few bus services (Forest Hill), the 484 uses tiny buses on a very busy route thanks to restrictions in Brockley, the 336 and 162 likewise, especially because of the low frequency on the 336. The 358 has the ongoing problem of using single-deckers due to a low bridge. Not sure about the 38. I was a bit surprised by the "self nominated" list of busy routes. I did wonder if all the group members here who live in South East London had submitted multiple entries to "influence" the result. I suspect the busy midibus routes will never be easy to solve. The roads served constrain the vehicle size and the ability to increase frequencies (risk of buses meeting and not being able to pass safely). Also although busy the vehicle capacity constrains the revenue take as well. Increasing route capacity therefore needs more buses and drivers if that is actually practical given the constraints. I'd therefore guess that improvements would need a fair old slug of extra subsidy. I'd also question whether such routes would ever get far enough up the priority list to warrant expenditure although outer area routes have done better under the current Mayor to be fair.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2013 11:38:50 GMT
Surprised the 35's not mentioned ahead of the 172. Makes one wonder who and how these figures were accumulated. The list is not statistically robust - it's just from what people who responded to the on line survey said. It is therefore going to be biased because there was no attempt to ensure a full representative sample across all of Greater London and from a range of bus users. It would only take some residents groups, local transport campaign or pensioner groups to decide to co-ordinate responses to push particular routes up the list. To be fair the report does say that the list we're discussing is not statistically reliable.
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Post by M1104 on Oct 29, 2013 11:45:56 GMT
The 172? I'm surprised by that one. I've used it on all days of the week peak, and off-peak. I'd say it was busy but not crowded - surely the crowding on the 171 is worse. The other suggestions don't surprise me at all - the 185 has been incredibly busy for a while, the 208 has huge Saturday crowding, the 96 gets flooded around school times, the 176 supports the 185 and provides a Central London link from an area with fairly few bus services (Forest Hill), the 484 uses tiny buses on a very busy route thanks to restrictions in Brockley, the 336 and 162 likewise, especially because of the low frequency on the 336. The 358 has the ongoing problem of using single-deckers due to a low bridge. Not sure about the 38. I was a bit surprised by the "self nominated" list of busy routes. I did wonder if all the group members here who live in South East London had submitted multiple entries to "influence" the result. I suspect the busy midibus routes will never be easy to solve. The roads served constrain the vehicle size and the ability to increase frequencies (risk of buses meeting and not being able to pass safely). Some midibus routes do have the ability to increase capacity, even if slightly. The 201, 322 and P13 have all used bigger buses in the past, not saying without difficulty in some cases. With GAL now withdrawing some VPs from the 185, perhaps the same will be with the short DWs on the 201 once better capacity buses are available.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 18:55:15 GMT
Some of the routes mentioned 162 176 185 208 336 could do with a frequency increase during most of the day to ease capacity issues. The 96 is very busy between Bluewater and Bexleyheath the other route operating between Bluewater and Bexleyheath is the 492 which operates every 30 minutes during the day and every 60 minutes in the evenings so not really offering an alternative for the 96. Many people from the 96 change on to the 269 at Bexleyheath to continue their journeys to Sidcup rather than wait for the 492.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 7, 2013 0:51:05 GMT
I have just found a fascinating bit of data that was supplied to the London Assembly Transport Committee by TfL. It sets out the annual patronage of TfL bus services over the last decade or so. It is contained with this pdf document. Data linkHours of fun looking for the busiest and quietest routes. A very quick glance suggests some caution is needed with bits of the data as all the lower level TfL route coding is evident so routes like NEL1 or 20(D) are listed. Also data for the 395 clearly refers to both iterations of that number - Rotherhithe Tunnel route and more recently Harrow to Greenford.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 7, 2013 0:57:19 GMT
I have just found a fascinating bit of data that was supplied to the London Assembly Transport Committee by TfL. It sets out the annual patronage of TfL bus services over the last decade or so. It is contained with this pdf document. Data linkHours of fun looking for the busiest and quietest routes. A very quick glance suggests some caution is needed with bits of the data as all the lower level TfL route coding is evident so routes like NEL1 or 20(D) are listed. Also data for the 395 clearly refers to both iterations of that number - Rotherhithe Tunnel route and more recently Harrow to Greenford. Only had a quick glance but looks very interesting - I've noticed that South London's 3 busiest routes (from 1st to 3rd) are the 12, 53 and then the 109.
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Post by Steve80 on Nov 7, 2013 2:39:21 GMT
Got some time on my hands In numerical order, here are... 20 busiest single deck routes... W15, 235, 170, 316, C11, 276, 214, 236, 72, 507, 285, D6, 200, H98, 521, 355, 358, 33, H37, 202 10 busiest low frequency routes... 407, 127, 258, 107, 289, 117, 314, 444, 469, 292 10 busiest night routes... N29, N25, N15, N38, N207, N8, N18, N155, N73, N279 Abellio 10 busiest routes 35, 188, 343, 3, 211, 344, 40, 414, 156, 235 Any more stats are welcome, and please feel free to correct.
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Post by snowman on Nov 7, 2013 7:14:19 GMT
Got some time on my hands In numerical order, here are... 20 busiest single deck routes... W5, 235, 170, 316, C11, 276, 214, 236, 72, 507, 285, D6, 200, H98, 521, 355, 358, 33, 202, C10 10 busiest low frequency routes... 407, 127, 258, 107, 289, 117, 314, 444, 469, 292 10 busiest night routes... N29, N25, N15, N38, N207, N8, N18, N155, N73, N279 Abellio 10 busiest routes 35, 188, 343, 3, 211, 344, 40, 414, 156, 235 Any more stats are welcome, and please feel free to correct. I'm stunned the H37 doesn'take it onto the busiest single deck routes. Needs 12m buses and has the highest frequency if I remember correctly of any LU route at 6 min intervals at times.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 7, 2013 9:39:52 GMT
The thing I find a tad surprising is that the 123 (my local route) is busier than some radial services into Zone 1. Given the disparity in resource and frequency it's time for a campaign for better frequencies. Does anyone have a good way of getting the data off the pdf file and into a spreadsheet? I've done the usual cut and paste routine but end up with a massive long column of data instead of a table.
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Post by westhamgeezer on Nov 7, 2013 10:19:25 GMT
FOI request to TfL? (FreeBBC's probably already on it! ;-) ) No seriously, I am trying to do this myself but the usual method I use gets it in a table but the figures are jumbled so any suggestions would be appreciated :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 11:02:56 GMT
Got some time on my hands In numerical order, here are... 20 busiest single deck routes... W5, 235, 170, 316, C11, 276, 214, 236, 72, 507, 285, D6, 200, H98, 521, 355, 358, 33, 202, C10 10 busiest low frequency routes... 407, 127, 258, 107, 289, 117, 314, 444, 469, 292 10 busiest night routes... N29, N25, N15, N38, N207, N8, N18, N155, N73, N279 Abellio 10 busiest routes 35, 188, 343, 3, 211, 344, 40, 414, 156, 235 Any more stats are welcome, and please feel free to correct. I'm stunned the H37 doesn'take it onto the busiest single deck routes. Needs 12m buses and has the highest frequency if I remember correctly of any LU route at 6 min intervals at times. I know and the H37 is always busy even at a 6 minute fequency, I think I'd take these stats with a pinch of salt quite honestly.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 7, 2013 11:09:23 GMT
I'm stunned the H37 doesn'take it onto the busiest single deck routes. Needs 12m buses and has the highest frequency if I remember correctly of any LU route at 6 min intervals at times. I know and the H37 is always busy even at a 6 minute fequency, I think I'd take these stats with a pinch of salt quite honestly. So let me get this right - TfL provide data to elected representatives for a well publicised offical investigation into bus services and you think TfL's data is somehow wrong? Can you set out the basis on which you think the data "needs to be taken with a pinch of salt"? Quoting the H37 as being "wrong" is NOT an acceptable answer. In all seriousness do you think TfL would be so stupid as to send a load of incorrect data to London politicians?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 11:10:49 GMT
I know and the H37 is always busy even at a 6 minute fequency, I think I'd take these stats with a pinch of salt quite honestly. So let me get this right - TfL provide data to elected representatives for a well publicised offical investigation into bus services and you think TfL's data is somehow wrong? Can you set out the basis on which you think the data "needs to be taken with a pinch of salt"? Quoting the H37 as being "wrong" is NOT an acceptable answer. In all seriousness do you think TfL would be so stupid as to send a load of incorrect data to London politicians? Do you really need me to answer that?
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Post by snowman on Nov 7, 2013 11:13:17 GMT
The thing I find a tad surprising is that the 123 (my local route) is busier than some radial services into Zone 1. Given the disparity in resource and frequency it's time for a campaign for better frequencies. Does anyone have a good way of getting the data off the pdf file and into a spreadsheet? I've done the usual cut and paste routine but end up with a massive long column of data instead of a table. Seen this problem before copying from PDFs. Sometimes if you paste into word then copy and paste the table word creates into excel it then does cells correctly
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