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Post by VPL630 on May 5, 2015 8:37:19 GMT
I know of those ... just none like the DLAs being thrashed to an inch of their lives... I think the DB300's are decent, it's a shame there was no Euro6 version (though there is the Eu6 Cummins in the MMC) B&H would have done better to put a fast single decker like SB200's on that route, I'm sure the torque issue can be adjusted What do you mean by with in an inch of their lives There are a few things that bugs me about the DB300's The gearbox set up, the 2nd to first kickdown is utterly pointless because they are short so it's almost tripping over itself screaming it's head off The brakes seem unforgiving and quite snappy They are mostly limited to 42 From DW428 upwards they don't have kickdown There is a vast range of performance between each bus EG DW313 is a pig but 314 goes like S*** of a shovel Back to B&H stuff If you have any done the 12 no matter what time of day or night you would know that single deckers are no option, The route is almost as busy as the 25 at times and this runs every 10 mins, B&H should have stayed loyal to Scania and ordered some Scania/MMC's or even just got some ADL MMC's, There had been talks about the 12 receiving new buses for quite some time and it was always talked about that it was getting B9TL/Gem2's which would be adequate for the route, The current omnidekkers did their job well and used to fly up the hills with ease, it just seems like with the streetdeck order, the order was influenced not by drivers/engineers or anyone that knows what the route is like but more with how much fuel can they save and then it was a second thought afterwards "oh can they climb hills?" Yes they can get up them but they are without doubt not suited to it, This comes on to another point, B&H have a large batch of B9TL's and N270UD's which aren't the most fuel efficient buses around yet all of a sudden fuel efficiently comes into it ?
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Post by snoggle on May 5, 2015 9:57:24 GMT
This comes on to another point, B&H have a large batch of B9TL's and N270UD's which aren't the most fuel efficient buses around yet all of a sudden fuel efficiently comes into it ? As is often the case the impact of individual managers can have a bearing on vehicle choices. B&H have lost several senior people and we've had a transfer of people from elsewhere within Go Ahead. I suspect Roger French was a bit of a fan of Scanias given they've been a long term choice with the privatised B&H business. He's gone and Scania haven't really kept up with the UK market developments. They've been lucky that Stagecoach have taken something of a shine to them for interurban double deck services. Without that business Scania's bus sales would be negligible in the UK now. It is also worth bearing in mind that there is a lot of pressure to get fuel costs down. With the economy growing the bus companies will face wage pressure as people move away from bus driving to other jobs. To reduce staff turnover wages will have to rise. With cuts to concessionary funding from local authorities the bus companies face pressures on their networks and cost bases so, to misquote Tesco, "every little helps" in keeping costs under control.
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2015 10:26:43 GMT
B&H would have done better to put a fast single decker like SB200's on that route, I'm sure the torque issue can be adjusted On the 12 to Eastbourne? I've only done a return trip to / from Eastbourne on it but it was completely heaving. Part of that was due to a gap in the return service so I let a bus go but even then the buses I used were very busy. There's no way that single deckers could cope on that route plus you'd lose the benefit of the view from the upper deck. I've had a very zippy ride on a SB200 between Liverpool and Runcorn on Arriva's X1 - another bus service. Arriva North West 3140 Runcorn Bus Station by plcd1, on Flickr Indeed, the 12 is a very busy route. I have a mate in Eastbourne who used to meet me in Brighton for bus trips and I can remember him telling me about how busy the 12 is.
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Post by vjaska on May 5, 2015 10:30:08 GMT
I know of those ... just none like the DLAs being thrashed to an inch of their lives... I think the DB300's are decent, it's a shame there was no Euro6 version (though there is the Eu6 Cummins in the MMC) B&H would have done better to put a fast single decker like SB200's on that route, I'm sure the torque issue can be adjusted What do you mean by with in an inch of their lives There are a few things that bugs me about the DB300's The gearbox set up, the 2nd to first kickdown is utterly pointless because they are short so it's almost tripping over itself screaming it's head off The brakes seem unforgiving and quite snappy They are mostly limited to 42 From DW428 upwards they don't have kickdown There is a vast range of performance between each bus EG DW313 is a pig but 314 goes like S*** of a shovel Back to B&H stuff If you have any done the 12 no matter what time of day or night you would know that single deckers are no option, The route is almost as busy as the 25 at times and this runs every 10 mins, B&H should have stayed loyal to Scania and ordered some Scania/MMC's or even just got some ADL MMC's, There had been talks about the 12 receiving new buses for quite some time and it was always talked about that it was getting B9TL/Gem2's which would be adequate for the route, The current omnidekkers did their job well and used to fly up the hills with ease, it just seems like with the streetdeck order, the order was influenced not by drivers/engineers or anyone that knows what the route is like but more with how much fuel can they save and then it was a second thought afterwards "oh can they climb hills?" Yes they can get up them but they are without doubt not suited to it, This comes on to another point, B&H have a large batch of B9TL's and N270UD's which aren't the most fuel efficient buses around yet all of a sudden fuel efficiently comes into it ? Brighton & Hove B9TL's aren't much better - had a few rides on the 7 with them and they were quite sluggish TBH.
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Post by Volvo on May 5, 2015 10:48:12 GMT
This comes on to another point, B&H have a large batch of B9TL's and N270UD's which aren't the most fuel efficient buses around yet all of a sudden fuel efficiently comes into it ? As is often the case the impact of individual managers can have a bearing on vehicle choices. B&H have lost several senior people and we've had a transfer of people from elsewhere within Go Ahead. I suspect Roger French was a bit of a fan of Scanias given they've been a long term choice with the privatised B&H business. He's gone and Scania haven't really kept up with the UK market developments. They've been lucky that Stagecoach have taken something of a shine to them for interurban double deck services. Without that business Scania's bus sales would be negligible in the UK now. It is also worth bearing in mind that there is a lot of pressure to get fuel costs down. With the economy growing the bus companies will face wage pressure as people move away from bus driving to other jobs. To reduce staff turnover wages will have to rise. With cuts to concessionary funding from local authorities the bus companies face pressures on their networks and cost bases so, to misquote Tesco, "every little helps" in keeping costs under control. Perhaps in that case the B5TL could have been a better choice?
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Post by Volvo on May 5, 2015 11:00:12 GMT
Back to B&H stuff the order was influenced not by drivers/engineers or anyone that knows what the route is like but more with how much fuel can they save and all of a sudden fuel efficiently comes into it ? 2 things spring to mind 1) isn't the reason most modern buses don't have manual kickdown a fuel saving measure? and also all this new monitoring systems, that include how hard a driver accelerates etc? which leads me onto point 2. 2)Yes the B9TLs and N270UDs may not be the most fuel efficient buses generally speaking but surely due to having more power that is both Bhp and torque, they will use less fuel carrying the same 18 tonne weight (as I am hearing the 12 is a very busy route) than a small engine DD with a lot less power that is going to struggle more with both hills and NSL, hence using more fuel and putting more strain on the engine. While not being a bus, I have driven a 1.6 petrol Astra 115bhp, 115lb ft torque with 4 adults (including myself) 1 child and a boot full and believe me getting it upto speed on the motorway takes a longer time and requires using lower gears for longer periods of time, especially when you want to overtake and therefore using more fuel than the same task performed with a 1.6 turbo astra with 180bhp and 177lb ft torque.
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Post by Red Dragon on May 5, 2015 17:04:03 GMT
I honestly don't think the glass staircase would be ordered by any operator in London (vandalism, pervs peeking at ladies climbing stairs in tight skirts, more windows for kids to etch), I think they just added it to the demonstrator to show it could be added if anyone was crazy enough to do it... not sure how much weight the extra glass would add either But how does that explain the glass staircase on the LTs? One word. Boris. His vanity and wanting to be able to look where he shouldn't be looking . Besides, maybe he's a graffiti artist at heart?
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Post by ServerKing on May 5, 2015 17:56:41 GMT
I know of those ... just none like the DLAs being thrashed to an inch of their lives... I think the DB300's are decent, it's a shame there was no Euro6 version (though there is the Eu6 Cummins in the MMC) B&H would have done better to put a fast single decker like SB200's on that route, I'm sure the torque issue can be adjusted What do you mean by with in an inch of their lives There are a few things that bugs me about the DB300's The gearbox set up, the 2nd to first kickdown is utterly pointless because they are short so it's almost tripping over itself screaming it's head off The brakes seem unforgiving and quite snappy They are mostly limited to 42 From DW428 upwards they don't have kickdown There is a vast range of performance between each bus EG DW313 is a pig but 314 goes like S*** of a shovel Back to B&H stuff If you have any done the 12 no matter what time of day or night you would know that single deckers are no option, The route is almost as busy as the 25 at times and this runs every 10 mins, B&H should have stayed loyal to Scania and ordered some Scania/MMC's or even just got some ADL MMC's, There had been talks about the 12 receiving new buses for quite some time and it was always talked about that it was getting B9TL/Gem2's which would be adequate for the route, The current omnidekkers did their job well and used to fly up the hills with ease, it just seems like with the streetdeck order, the order was influenced not by drivers/engineers or anyone that knows what the route is like but more with how much fuel can they save and then it was a second thought afterwards "oh can they climb hills?" Yes they can get up them but they are without doubt not suited to it, This comes on to another point, B&H have a large batch of B9TL's and N270UD's which aren't the most fuel efficient buses around yet all of a sudden fuel efficiently comes into it ? Just energetic driving like they get once they leave London, like ex-DLA228 now in the Shires (on YouTube) Unsurprisingly the media have pounced on this latest Streetdeck issue
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Post by wivenswold on May 5, 2015 18:15:59 GMT
Tsk, typical. Brian Souter, major shareholder in ADL and SNP backer must have a hand in this.
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Post by rmz19 on May 5, 2015 22:06:02 GMT
But how does that explain the glass staircase on the LTs? One word. Boris. His vanity and wanting to be able to look where he shouldn't be looking . Besides, maybe he's a graffiti artist at heart? If this is the case then it's kind of unfair that LTs can get away with the glass staircase just because of Boris, and the StreetDeck can't, especially as it's designed by Wright. I'm quite fond of the glass staircase, and before anyone asks...NOT for those reasons it's purely an aesthetic appeal
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Post by VPL630 on May 5, 2015 22:11:22 GMT
To be fair the 12 route is quite a route, I don't know that many routes that have mostly NSL sections up 16% grads in at least 2 places, The route is one that will test the bus beyond belief and it really shows every weakness of the puny little Daimler engine, while it may not perform great on this route, I can see it being quite popular in London, it really is good on fuel and that's all any big company cares about, it's got Wright bodywork so it won't just fall to bits and it is quite light for a bus of it's size.
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Post by snoggle on May 5, 2015 22:17:24 GMT
But how does that explain the glass staircase on the LTs? I think the phrase you are hunting for is "Thomas Heatherwick inspired style over substance". He has something of a reputation for designing irrelevant, unworkable nonsense. Blue Carpet in Newcastle
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Post by snoggle on May 7, 2015 14:48:55 GMT
Just been browsing the latest Route One mag in my lunch break Seems Wright will deal with the performance issue shortly That looks suspiciously like one of my photos from my Flickr collection. That'll be the collection where "all rights are reserved".
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Post by ServerKing on Jun 19, 2015 15:44:19 GMT
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but Buses Mag gave a thumbs down to Brighton's quirky collection of StreetDecks... the Brighton ones have TABLES fitted at the back (both decks?) I'm sure that won't help the acceleration if it already struggles
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