|
Post by 6HP502C on Jun 29, 2014 12:51:20 GMT
I much prefer the sound of the Euro 6 E400H to the Euro 5 version - much more interesting. It 's the other way around with the B5LH.
Anyway, I digress.
The MAN Evolutions with Metrobus have 240bph and are about as fast off the mark as SDs get.
Double deckers, I'd nominate the unrestricted 2 series DB300s.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jun 29, 2014 13:09:38 GMT
The best double-decker I have ever travelled on in terms of performance was B reg. Metrobus M1104 when at BN and still having the white wraparound advertisement for the Cummin L10 engine. www.na3t.org/road/photo/JLC00196-17Considering that it was the 80s at that time, it was dangerously quick off the mark, putting quite a few cars to shame. Although M1084-1103/5 had the same engine M1104's was uprated, though I don't know what the horsepower and torque specs were. Another souped up Metrobus BN had was M205 which although having the standard Gardner engine was fitted with a different turbo for a trial period.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2014 7:17:44 GMT
Like Louis Suarez' most recent biting incident, this thread could be looked at from all different angles, and still not come to the right conclusion To summarize, the best bus is the one most suitable for the route involved - for instance, you wouldn't go and put a single deck on the 267.... I take that back... I guess they learnt back in the day this wasn't ideal Generally it all depends on the route and the tasks involved, unless anyone else can provide an inexhaustive list... That photo brought back memories. The Sunday services on the 9,111,120,220,267 plus some others were converted on Sundays, totally inadequate ....
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jul 4, 2014 9:02:45 GMT
Like Louis Suarez' most recent biting incident, this thread could be looked at from all different angles, and still not come to the right conclusion To summarize, the best bus is the one most suitable for the route involved - for instance, you wouldn't go and put a single deck on the 267.... I take that back... I guess they learnt back in the day this wasn't ideal Generally it all depends on the route and the tasks involved, unless anyone else can provide an inexhaustive list... That photo brought back memories. The Sunday services on the 9,111,120,220,267 plus some others were converted on Sundays, totally inadequate .... There were also odd Dart workings on the 94.
|
|
|
Post by allentc on Jul 4, 2014 12:43:22 GMT
The early Reeve Burgess Darts (DR) went like stink. Foot flat to the floor and you could surprise many car drivers off the lights! Ahh, fond memories.
Back to the questions:
What single deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? Heavy duty single buses such as the Citaro or the OmniCity are going to excel here because of their larger, more powerful engines. Because of their weight and larger wheels they will also be more steady to drive at high speeds as opposed to midibuses. I have driven Darts against the limiter on the motorway and found them to be skittish! IIRC Darts are limited to a top speed of 53mph anyway. I would be surprised if Citaros and the Omnicity were not capable of reaching 100kph.
What single deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Again it would have to be a heavy duty bus like the Citaro or Omnicity. You've got remember a Dart has a small 3.9l 4 cylinder engine so might do ok unladen but not so with a lot of passengers on board. That little engine has a tough job! Perhaps an earlier 5.9l 6 cylinder Dart might fare better.
What double deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Not sure but Mitchley Hill (Route 412) in Purley is a very good test of this! It would be cool to be able to test a variety buses on this route. The DLAs struggle the most - probably because of the age and wear on the engine. The DWs do marginally better and the Enviro 400s (T) make it up the fastest. Again it is probably age related. I'm sure a newly rebuilt engine in a DLA would perform a lot better. Other than that perhaps a Volvo Olympian Cummins L10?
What double deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? An East Lancs/Optare Olympus Volvo B9TL would be my bet. There are a fair few coach operators that own these and I see them from time to time with school parties on the motorway. Otherwise something like an unrestricted Euro 2 or Euro 3 Trident as mentioned by someone else. Again a Volvo Olympian - I remember reading somewhere that Ensign are particularly fond of their Alexander Royales because they are more than capable of doing motorway work too (I'm not sure if theirs are Cummins L10s?)
|
|
|
Post by VPL630 on Jul 4, 2014 12:51:06 GMT
I wanted to know what buses is the best for which type of roads. What single deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Citaro what single deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? Citaro with no speed limiter otherwise E200 What double deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Scania n270ud/Omnicity (None in London, Brighton and Hove have loads) What double deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? E400 but their not fun in the wind or Scania n270ud/Omnicity
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 4, 2014 13:13:21 GMT
The early Reeve Burgess Darts (DR) went like stink. Foot flat to the floor and you could surprise many car drivers off the lights! Ahh, fond memories. Back to the questions: What single deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? Heavy duty single buses such as the Citaro or the OmniCity are going to excel here because of their larger, more powerful engines. Because of their weight and larger wheels they will also be more steady to drive at high speeds as opposed to midibuses. I have driven Darts against the limiter on the motorway and found them to be skittish! IIRC Darts are limited to a top speed of 53mph anyway. I would be surprised if Citaros and the Omnicity were not capable of reaching 100kph. What single deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Again it would have to be a heavy duty bus like the Citaro or Omnicity. You've got remember a Dart has a small 3.9l 4 cylinder engine so might do ok unladen but not so with a lot of passengers on board. That little engine has a tough job! Perhaps an earlier 5.9l 6 cylinder Dart might fare better. What double deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Not sure but Mitchley Hill (Route 412) in Purley is a very good test of this! It would be cool to be able to test a variety buses on this route. The DLAs struggle the most - probably because of the age and wear on the engine. The DWs do marginally better and the Enviro 400s (T) make it up the fastest. Again it is probably age related. I'm sure a newly rebuilt engine in a DLA would perform a lot better. Other than that perhaps a Volvo Olympian Cummins L10? What double deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? An East Lancs/Optare Olympus Volvo B9TL would be my bet. There are a fair few coach operators that own these and I see them from time to time with school parties on the motorway. Otherwise something like an unrestricted Euro 2 or Euro 3 Trident as mentioned by someone else. Again a Volvo Olympian - I remember reading somewhere that Ensign are particularly fond of their Alexander Royales because they are more than capable of doing motorway work too (I'm not sure if theirs are Cummins L10s?) Ensignbus have Volvo engined ones from what I can remember. From my own experience, Voith buses tend to be the better hill climbers - been on DLA's & Mk 1 DW's that have held their own up Mitchley Hill before. I'd like to get a T on there as well as one of the Mk 2 DW's to see how well they are. The T's probably do better due to them being younger and the extra BHP most likely helps.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jul 4, 2014 13:14:15 GMT
The early Reeve Burgess Darts (DR) went like stink. Foot flat to the floor and you could surprise many car drivers off the lights! Ahh, fond memories. Back to the questions: What single deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? Heavy duty single buses such as the Citaro or the OmniCity are going to excel here because of their larger, more powerful engines. Because of their weight and larger wheels they will also be more steady to drive at high speeds as opposed to midibuses. I have driven Darts against the limiter on the motorway and found them to be skittish! IIRC Darts are limited to a top speed of 53mph anyway. I would be surprised if Citaros and the Omnicity were not capable of reaching 100kph. What single deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Again it would have to be a heavy duty bus like the Citaro or Omnicity. You've got remember a Dart has a small 3.9l 4 cylinder engine so might do ok unladen but not so with a lot of passengers on board. That little engine has a tough job! Perhaps an earlier 5.9l 6 cylinder Dart might fare better. What double deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Not sure but Mitchley Hill (Route 412) in Purley is a very good test of this! It would be cool to be able to test a variety buses on this route. The DLAs struggle the most - probably because of the age and wear on the engine. The DWs do marginally better and the Enviro 400s (T) make it up the fastest. Again it is probably age related. I'm sure a newly rebuilt engine in a DLA would perform a lot better. Other than that perhaps a Volvo Olympian Cummins L10? What double deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? An East Lancs/Optare Olympus Volvo B9TL would be my bet. There are a fair few coach operators that own these and I see them from time to time with school parties on the motorway. Otherwise something like an unrestricted Euro 2 or Euro 3 Trident as mentioned by someone else. Again a Volvo Olympian - I remember reading somewhere that Ensign are particularly fond of their Alexander Royales because they are more than capable of doing motorway work too (I'm not sure if theirs are Cummins L10s?) I believe the Volvo Olympians stopped using the L10 engine from around N reg based on the examples Q had, their M reg single door Docklands buses having the Cummin engines whereas their N reg dual doored variants for the 35/40 having Volvo engines. The Reeves bodied Dennis Darts (DR/DRLs) did indeed move like 'the dogs b*****ks' on the road against the average cars. I don't know what the torque/horsepower specs were, but they would have given the MAN single Deckers a good run for their money, bearing in mind the DRL's were shorter in length. I believe Arriva South's latest Darts (before their E200s) have euro4 spec'd 4.5L engines as opposed to the 3.9L units in their euro3 examples. Another dangerously fast bus where the VC class Volvo city buses Stockwell had for the 133 and 196, until they were eventually governed. They were excellent shifters up the hills along the 196, Knights Hill in particular.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 4, 2014 13:20:59 GMT
The early Reeve Burgess Darts (DR) went like stink. Foot flat to the floor and you could surprise many car drivers off the lights! Ahh, fond memories. Back to the questions: What single deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? Heavy duty single buses such as the Citaro or the OmniCity are going to excel here because of their larger, more powerful engines. Because of their weight and larger wheels they will also be more steady to drive at high speeds as opposed to midibuses. I have driven Darts against the limiter on the motorway and found them to be skittish! IIRC Darts are limited to a top speed of 53mph anyway. I would be surprised if Citaros and the Omnicity were not capable of reaching 100kph. What single deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Again it would have to be a heavy duty bus like the Citaro or Omnicity. You've got remember a Dart has a small 3.9l 4 cylinder engine so might do ok unladen but not so with a lot of passengers on board. That little engine has a tough job! Perhaps an earlier 5.9l 6 cylinder Dart might fare better. What double deckers is the best at climbing Hills? Not sure but Mitchley Hill (Route 412) in Purley is a very good test of this! It would be cool to be able to test a variety buses on this route. The DLAs struggle the most - probably because of the age and wear on the engine. The DWs do marginally better and the Enviro 400s (T) make it up the fastest. Again it is probably age related. I'm sure a newly rebuilt engine in a DLA would perform a lot better. Other than that perhaps a Volvo Olympian Cummins L10? What double deckers is the fastest on dual carriageways/motorways? An East Lancs/Optare Olympus Volvo B9TL would be my bet. There are a fair few coach operators that own these and I see them from time to time with school parties on the motorway. Otherwise something like an unrestricted Euro 2 or Euro 3 Trident as mentioned by someone else. Again a Volvo Olympian - I remember reading somewhere that Ensign are particularly fond of their Alexander Royales because they are more than capable of doing motorway work too (I'm not sure if theirs are Cummins L10s?) I believe the Volvo Olympians stopped using the L10 engine from around N reg based on the examples Q had, their M reg single door Docklands buses having the Cummin engines whereas their N reg dual doored variants for the 35/40 having Volvo engines. The Reeves bodied Dennis Darts (DR/DRLs) did indeed move like 'the dogs b*****ks' on the road against the average cars. I don't know what the torque/horsepower specs were, but they would have given the MAN single Deckers a good run for their money, bearing in mind the DRL's were shorter in length. I believe Arriva South's latest Darts (before their E200s) have euro4 spec'd 4.5L engines as opposed to the 3.9L units in their euro3 examples. Another dangerously fast bus where the VC class Volvo city buses Stockwell had for the 133 and 196, until they were eventually governed. They were excellent shifters up the hills along the 196, Knights Hill in particular. P reg were the last Volvo Olympians to have a Cummins engine as new.
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Jul 4, 2014 14:16:12 GMT
Has everyone forgotten the Euro 6 Hybrid e400s! Climbing Hills most buses provided they are unrestricted - be it single or dd dual carriageway/motorway same again - single or dd provided they are not restricted. As for the euro 6 E400Hs, I like all E400 Hybrids some of my favourite buses right now.
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Jul 4, 2014 14:19:20 GMT
I much prefer the sound of the Euro 6 E400H to the Euro 5 version - much more interesting. It 's the other way around with the B5LH. This 100%, I have always liked the E400 Hybrid however the euro 6 versions take me back to the 58regs (Metroline/LU/Go Ahead) which sound excellent. The euro 6 B5LH is much faster than the euro 5 which is great stuff but it doesn't sound as good sounds too tame. So this time around I prefer the B5TL to the B5LH sound wise anyway.
|
|
|
Post by paulsw2 on Jul 4, 2014 14:29:17 GMT
The best double-decker I have ever travelled on in terms of performance was B reg. Metrobus M1104 when at BN and still having the white wraparound advertisement for the Cummin L10 engine. www.na3t.org/road/photo/JLC00196-17Considering that it was the 80s at that time, it was dangerously quick off the mark, putting quite a few cars to shame. Although M1084-1103/5 had the same engine M1104's was uprated, though I don't know what the horsepower and torque specs were. Another souped up Metrobus BN had was M205 which although having the standard Gardner engine was fitted with a different turbo for a trial period. M1104 was the Cummins sponsored bus M1105 was also quick off the mark (both were fitted with tachographs for private hire) these buses had a different fuel pump I believe and when they worked on the N78 to New Addington they could go up Mitchley Hill in Top gear. I have also been up Gravel Hill on both these buses and again top gear.The crazy thing is these buses tended not to get involved in accidents as the drivers could pull away into a gap with no problems.I believe that the fuel pumps had a dual mode i.e. local/journey fuel economy dropped in journey but performance improved no end.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jul 4, 2014 14:43:46 GMT
I much prefer the sound of the Euro 6 E400H to the Euro 5 version - much more interesting. It 's the other way around with the B5LH. This 100%, I have always liked the E400 Hybrid however the euro 6 versions take me back to the 58regs (Metroline/LU/Go Ahead) which sound excellent. The euro 6 B5LH is much faster than the euro 5 which is great stuff but it doesn't sound as good. Sounds too tame, so this time around I prefer the B5TL to the B5LH sound wise anyway. Completely agree with all this - I still need to ride a Euro VI B5LH but I've heard one and they don't sound great. I like the very early E400H's (EH1-5/TEH915-919/ADH1-2) and the Euro VI ones but dislike the Euro V ones.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jul 4, 2014 15:31:50 GMT
The best double-decker I have ever travelled on in terms of performance was B reg. Metrobus M1104 when at BN and still having the white wraparound advertisement for the Cummin L10 engine. www.na3t.org/road/photo/JLC00196-17Considering that it was the 80s at that time, it was dangerously quick off the mark, putting quite a few cars to shame. Although M1084-1103/5 had the same engine M1104's was uprated, though I don't know what the horsepower and torque specs were. Another souped up Metrobus BN had was M205 which although having the standard Gardner engine was fitted with a different turbo for a trial period. M1104 was the Cummins sponsored bus M1105 was also quick off the mark (both were fitted with tachographs for private hire) these buses had a different fuel pump I believe and when they worked on the N78 to New Addington they could go up Mitchley Hill in Top gear. I have also been up Gravel Hill on both these buses and again top gear.The crazy thing is these buses tended not to get involved in accidents as the drivers could pull away into a gap with no problems.I believe that the fuel pumps had a dual mode i.e. local/journey fuel economy dropped in journey but performance improved no end. Yes I was told about the dual economy in the last years was switched down, particularly, when based at TC. I used to travel on the 137 on Sundays when the breed were used, but sadly never experienced M1104 going up Central Hill to Crystal Palace.
|
|
|
Post by Volvo on Jul 5, 2014 14:55:11 GMT
This 100%, I have always liked the E400 Hybrid however the euro 6 versions take me back to the 58regs (Metroline/LU/Go Ahead) which sound excellent. The euro 6 B5LH is much faster than the euro 5 which is great stuff but it doesn't sound as good. Sounds too tame, so this time around I prefer the B5TL to the B5LH sound wise anyway. Completely agree with all this - I still need to ride a Euro VI B5LH but I've heard one and they don't sound great. I like the very early E400H's (EH1-5/TEH915-919/ADH1-2) and the Euro VI ones but dislike the Euro V ones. SB200/DB300s aside I am not a overall fan of the euro 5 cummins unit in DD or SD(nor the euro 6 diesel which pretty much sounds the same as euro 5). The diesel is drab but the hybrids are alright, I am not a fan of the start stop examples on the 27 though. Euro 4 is my favourite for the 'modern' era of the cummins unit in double deckers. Euro 4/5 voith 6.7ltr in the SB200 is excellent, DB300 is decent, I don't understand why E400s are so boring compared. The 4.5 ltr euro4/5 in E200/Streetlites is dull as ditch water too, especially on voith. The 4.5 ltr euro 5 in the metrocity sounds good though.
|
|