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Post by paulsw2 on Aug 19, 2017 2:04:05 GMT
It is gonna go on for quite a while as NEW night T/Ops have got to be trained (12-14 weeks) plus they need to have I/Ops free to train these people plus deal with other operational needs I can't believe that management didn't see fit to start training the new night drivers in advance of letting the original drivers go full time as management know that this was on the horizon. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2017 6:52:20 GMT
It is gonna go on for quite a while as NEW night T/Ops have got to be trained (12-14 weeks) plus they need to have I/Ops free to train these people plus deal with other operational needs I can't believe that management didn't see fit to start training the new night drivers in advance of letting the original drivers go full time as management know that this was on the horizon. So we're looking at almost Christmas ? And TfL on the ground cut the parallel Piccadilly Line night bus routes , wonderful stuff. |
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Post by snoggle on Aug 19, 2017 10:17:35 GMT
It is gonna go on for quite a while as NEW night T/Ops have got to be trained (12-14 weeks) plus they need to have I/Ops free to train these people plus deal with other operational needs I can't believe that management didn't see fit to start training the new night drivers in advance of letting the original drivers go full time as management know that this was on the horizon. So we're looking at almost Christmas ? And TfL on the ground cut the parallel Piccadilly Line night bus routes , wonderful stuff. "Left hand can I introduce to Right hand? I know you've never met before but I felt now was a good time for you to get acquainted with each other."  You couldn't make it up. I'll be astonished if anything is fixed by Christmas. I've just read on the District Dave forum that there are people who've been selected to be Night Tube drivers who haven't even been given a training start date never mind actually being trained. It'll be Spring before this is sorted unless they persuade people to go back on night turns in the short term. Once we get towards the Festive season night tube demand will rise and the service will be inoperable if there are large crowds on platforms and huge gaps between trains. They can't allow more than a 45 min gap between trains at present *but* it is the holiday season and the students are away. Demand levels will rise again once we are in to September. The danger with the Picc Line being off is that the Northern and Victoria have to pick up the strain from Zone 1 northwards. West London, as you say, is reliant on buses but most of those haven't been cut yet where they parallel the Picc. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 2, 2017 18:49:46 GMT
Another massive set of cuts due to Metroline operated Night routes in the next few weeks (seen on another forum).
30 Sept sees the 43, 134, 214, N5 and N20 all cut to x30 *nightly*. These are hefty cuts - especially for those routes serving the City / Hoxton / Old Street which has no night tube service on the Northern Line and more generally on weeknights.
28 Oct sees the 24 cut to x30 *nightly*.
If this scale of cuts carries on we will see a vastly reduced night bus network. I have asked for clarification that the poster on the other group does mean *nightly* rather than weekend frequencies equaling weeknight frequencies. Until I get confirmation obviously there is a need for some caution with these reductions as many, if on weeknights, have not been subject to any consultation and represent a significant change.
I assume further operator based cuts will follow in due course - plenty of scope for Arriva, Abellio, Go Ahead, RATP and Stagecoach run routes to be further massacred at weekends.
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Post by ian on Sept 2, 2017 19:20:49 GMT
If it is a reduction on Sun - Thursday that is very disappointing for some of those routes. E.g. I use N5 a fair bit; the weekday service will now compare atrociously with weekends when the tube is every 15 mins and obviously much faster.
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Post by redwave on Sept 2, 2017 22:34:23 GMT
The 28/10 changes are provisional and might be delayed and/or amended. Several other night routes are likely to have changes by the end of the year but again there's no definite dates.
There are several possible reductions to a number daytime services over the coming months, from every 6 to every 7/8 mins, every 10 to every 12. Also temporary frequency widening for roadworks on some routes may become permanent.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 10:09:40 GMT
How many bus drivers are going to lose their jobs ? This from the fabled son of a bus driver.
Its no wonder people use Uber, there's fewer and fewer buses. Times are changing.
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Post by sid on Sept 3, 2017 10:29:11 GMT
How many bus drivers are going to lose their jobs ? This from the fabled son of a bus driver. Its no wonder people use Uber, there's fewer and fewer buses. Times are changing. In fairness despite these reductions there is very little sign of overcrowding, I saw a few packed buses going to the carnival last weekend and thought what a rarity they are in Central London nowadays. I think TfL need to be asking themselves why people are moving away from the bus network in their droves. Friday/Saturday night reductions are an inevitable consequence of the 24 hour tube service. |
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 3, 2017 12:05:21 GMT
Another massive set of cuts due to Metroline operated Night routes in the next few weeks (seen on another forum). 30 Sept sees the 43, 134, 214, N5 and N20 all cut to x30 *nightly*. These are hefty cuts - especially for those routes serving the City / Hoxton / Old Street which has no night tube service on the Northern Line and more generally on weeknights. 28 Oct sees the 24 cut to x30 *nightly*. If this scale of cuts carries on we will see a vastly reduced night bus network. I have asked for clarification that the poster on the other group does mean *nightly* rather than weekend frequencies equaling weeknight frequencies. Until I get confirmation obviously there is a need for some caution with these reductions as many, if on weeknights, have not been subject to any consultation and represent a significant change. I assume further operator based cuts will follow in due course - plenty of scope for Arriva, Abellio, Go Ahead, RATP and Stagecoach run routes to be further massacred at weekends. The 43/134 proposals especially (if this 2bph plan turns out to be 'nightly') seem to ignore the fact that the routes are a feeder into the Northern Line for a large area to the north of Highgate. 4bph would probably be ok if the spread of buses was even but Metroline/HT certainly never bothered trying to achieve that in the days when both N routes were 2bph - the routes ran through Highgate and Muswell Hill about four minutes apart. Unless TfL are clever about this I suspect this is a trip people trying to get back to Muswell Hill on the night tube will do once, find themselves stuck outside Highgate Station for 25 minutes waiting for a bus then just sack it off and get an Uber home in future, adding to the spiral of patronage decline. It isn't enough for the tube to be running - the last leg needs to be of reasonable provision too. A growing number of areas in London are sufficiently well off that the bus is a discretionary option based on convenience rather than price alone, seemingly at the same time as TfL are cutting and cutting and the alternative options are becoming more affordable. It does not bode well. I am waiting for the daytime 24 to get sliced again. The freehold sections could get by on a 10 minute headway during the day and the Tsq-Camden section is heavily duplicated, though I do think Southampton Road would struggle with a cut in the peaks. But in the broader context I'm not enormously surprised by the cut to the night service, e.g. the only area in Pimlico more than a few minutes walk from night routes on either Chelsea Bridge Road or Vauxhall Bridge Road is Churchill Gardens Estate itself. I am baffled as to why TfL don't think the economics of a night service on the City branch of the Northern Line are viable. |
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Post by sid on Sept 3, 2017 12:14:06 GMT
Another massive set of cuts due to Metroline operated Night routes in the next few weeks (seen on another forum). 30 Sept sees the 43, 134, 214, N5 and N20 all cut to x30 *nightly*. These are hefty cuts - especially for those routes serving the City / Hoxton / Old Street which has no night tube service on the Northern Line and more generally on weeknights. 28 Oct sees the 24 cut to x30 *nightly*. If this scale of cuts carries on we will see a vastly reduced night bus network. I have asked for clarification that the poster on the other group does mean *nightly* rather than weekend frequencies equaling weeknight frequencies. Until I get confirmation obviously there is a need for some caution with these reductions as many, if on weeknights, have not been subject to any consultation and represent a significant change. I assume further operator based cuts will follow in due course - plenty of scope for Arriva, Abellio, Go Ahead, RATP and Stagecoach run routes to be further massacred at weekends. The 43/134 proposals especially (if this 2bph plan turns out to be 'nightly') seem to ignore the fact that the routes are a feeder into the Northern Line for a large area to the north of Highgate. 4bph would probably be ok if the spread of buses was even but Metroline/HT certainly never bothered trying to achieve that in the days when both N routes were 2bph - the routes ran through Highgate and Muswell Hill about four minutes apart. Unless TfL are clever about this I suspect this is a trip people trying to get back to Muswell Hill on the night tube will do once, find themselves stuck outside Highgate Station for 25 minutes waiting for a bus then just sack it off and get an Uber home in future, adding to the spiral of patronage decline. It isn't enough for the tube to be running - the last leg needs to be of reasonable provision too. A growing number of areas in London are sufficiently well off that the bus is a discretionary option based on convenience rather than price alone, seemingly at the same time as TfL are cutting and cutting and the alternative options are becoming more affordable. It does not bode well. I am waiting for the daytime 24 to get sliced again. The freehold sections could get by on a 10 minute headway during the day and the Tsq-Camden section is heavily duplicated, though I do think Southampton Road would struggle with a cut in the peaks. But in the broader context I'm not enormously surprised by the cut to the night service, e.g. the only area in Pimlico more than a few minutes walk from night routes on either Chelsea Bridge Road or Vauxhall Bridge Road is Churchill Gardens Estate itself. I am baffled as to why TfL don't think the economics of a night service on the City branch of the Northern Line are viable. Apparently long term work at Bank would be seriously hampered, that's what I was told anyway. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 3, 2017 12:36:14 GMT
I am baffled as to why TfL don't think the economics of a night service on the City branch of the Northern Line are viable. No issues with your views about the Night buses. Sid is correct that the long term reconstruction at Bank is the reason why there is no night tube on the City branch. They need all the engineering hours they can get in the Northern Line part of the station. To be honest I'm surprised the Central Line actually stops there. |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 3, 2017 13:15:00 GMT
From LOTS website news.
So there we have Metroline, RATP, Arriva and Tower Transit following on. I think I timed my recent Night Bus snapathon perfectly. Won't be worth bothering in future with such long waits between buses and it being likely buses won't stop due to no one waiting - that's why I failed to get the N8 and N55. Drove past without stopping as first stop on Oxford St was empty. You can't wait for 20-30 minutes in the vain hope a bus might stop to allow you to take a photo.
EDIT - All these cuts raise an interesting question as to the scale of this year's New Year's Eve night services. I suspect they will be vastly less than in previous years.
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Post by redexpress on Sept 3, 2017 22:16:42 GMT
Its no wonder people use Uber, there's fewer and fewer buses. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer buses, people use Uber. It's no wonder people use Uber, there are fewer and fewer buses. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer buses, people use Uber. It's no wonder people use Uber, there are fewer and fewer buses. And so on.... People going for a night out will always be able to afford an Uber. The minimum-wagers who work long hours to run this night-time economy (which runs 7 nights a week, unlike the tube) will be stuck with fewer and fewer buses to get them home. So London finally follows the rest of the UK. Buses become the absolute last resort for people who can't afford any better, and there will be no money left to provide them with a decent service. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 4:10:35 GMT
Its no wonder people use Uber, there's fewer and fewer buses. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer buses, people use Uber. It's no wonder people use Uber, there are fewer and fewer buses. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer buses, people use Uber. It's no wonder people use Uber, there are fewer and fewer buses. And so on.... People going for a night out will always be able to afford an Uber. The minimum-wagers who work long hours to run this night-time economy (which runs 7 nights a week, unlike the tube) will be stuck with fewer and fewer buses to get them home. So London finally follows the rest of the UK. Buses become the absolute last resort for people who can't afford any better, and there will be no money left to provide them with a decent service. Exactly this. I know for a fact that many workers in that category choose buses over rail/tube because their budgets don't allow them that luxury. Whatever the Mayor says, London is not "open" as he keeps banging on about. Its the most dangerous it's been for decades and now he makes it harder for people to get home at night , unless you live near a tube station, which is precisely where property prices are on a Monaco level when compared with the rest of the UK. He is also closing lots of police stations incidentally, like Bexleyheath and Feltham. Accept it may not be his fault given austerity. But he hasn't fought back at all, worse, he is making the the point for efficiency. It will all come back to bite, when crime further spirals out of control, and the transport system starts suffering, for example, crime on the transport systems has risen a fair bit as well. |
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Post by enviroPB on Sept 4, 2017 15:53:19 GMT
It's worth remembering that Boris planned to hideously slash night bus services on the day the Night Tube orignally was planned to start (for the Rugby World Cup on 12th September 2015). Had he not had a hash with the Tube trade unions for the start date & the Night Tube actually went through, the Mayor would've had a probelm with the bus driver unions had the drastic drop in bus services gone ahead. Count our blessings that we got a 2 year or so grace period of enhanced night bus services I guess.  |
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