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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 11, 2020 20:20:58 GMT
I don't think the 23 would work at Lancaster Gate purely due to the lack of links it would create. I'd much rather it started on Marble Arch, North Row where the proposed 94 stands were to give a remote link to the West End. The 332 would be a better candidate to go to Lancaster Gate because of the links created, and I'd send it through St Mary's Hospital in both directions instead of via Bishops Bridge. Adding onto the 23, the 440 should be withdrew between Wembley Stadium and Stonebridge Park, with the 23 going via route 18 to Wembley Stadium, 182 to Wembley Arena and then down Fulton Road and stand on Rutherford Way with the return towards Marble Arch using Engineers Way. The 206 would be sent away from Rutherford Way, and routed via Fulton Road instead of Rutherford Way & Engineers Way in both directions. If you wanted the 218 to go to Wembley Stadium or wherever, I would first swap the 218 & 440 routings in Acton. Then I'd send it up the 266 to Harlesden and then the 206 to the junction with First Way in Wembley Stadium, send it down South Way, then route 83 to Wembley Central with the route gaining the 23s DNHs. I proposed rerouting the 23 via Lancaster Gate was to reduce the amount of routes on Edgware Road. There would be significantly more demand for the route to terminate at the end of Oxford Street, where routes like the 94, 98 & 159 are in reachable distance with 139 at Selfridges so that people can get into Central London and the West End.
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Post by greg on Apr 11, 2020 21:08:32 GMT
Hi, uhm fantasy things I would or think would be good to happen. 68: Withdrawn (replaced by route 168) 168: Rerouted from Elephant & Castle and extended fo West Norwood via route 68. 188: Extended from Russel Square to King’s Cross My reasons for this, a connection from Russel Square to Kings Cross is heavily needed, and with the 59 cut to Euston doesn’t help things but I also think the 188 would of been the best route to send, with the 68 at Euston and the 59 at Russel Square, however 59 also has alot of good links and the 68 at Russel Square would also be bad so how about save money and withdraw the 68 and extend the 168 a little further. Also, it may seem the 168 will become too long which idk could be. If it is, they can withdraw north of the route between Chalk Farm and Hampstead Heath. Recently shortened route 27 can extend to Hampstead Heath via the 168 (not 24) and be nicer. The 27 route also is known to serve the nicer/expensive areas of London anyways. Please share your thoughts
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 11, 2020 21:23:00 GMT
I did once think about the 168 going to Camberwell Green to partially replace the 68 and leave the 468 along at a higher freq to Herne Hill and West Norwood but stand space was non existent and also there would probably need to be 2 routes to Herne Hill atleast. However I think the 68 should remain.
I stand by thou that something could be removed between Elephant/Waterloo/Aldwych and Russell Square/Euston. Reasons being apart from outside the absolute rush hour there is plenty of capacity along that stretch (remember before 1986 the 1, 59, 168 and 243 were not running along there. The 59 was meant to replace the 188 but didn't). I did think about the 68 maybe going to TCR and the 1 pulled out and maybe then replaced by the 199 from Waterloo/Elephant and withdrawn. Also with planned works and Aldwych, Holborn and Euston I think it's is certain tfl will remove something.
The question is what would cause the least damage?
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Post by greg on Apr 11, 2020 21:27:46 GMT
I did once think about the 168 going to Camberwell Green to partially replace the 68 and leave the 468 along at a higher freq to Herne Hill and West Norwood but stand space was non existent and also there would probably need to be 2 routes to Herne Hill atleast. However I think the 68 should remain. I stand by thou that something could be removed between Elephant/Waterloo/Aldwych and Russell Square/Euston. Reasons being apart from outside the absolute rush hour there is plenty of capacity along that stretch (remember before 1986 the 1, 59, 168 and 243 were not running along there. The 59 was meant to replace the 188 but didn't). I did think about the 68 maybe going to TCR and the 1 pulled out and maybe then replaced by the 199 from Waterloo/Elephant and withdrawn. Also with planned works and Aldwych, Holborn and Euston I think it's is certain tfl will remove something. The question is what would cause the least damage? I agree, I didnt think of this. The 1 and 199 merged between Waterloo and Catford? Space from route 4 rerouting as far as I know on Waterloo Road. Saves money, 68 can be rerouted to Tottenham Court Road and then leaves the 59, 91 and 168 along Russel Square. I still think it would be good for the 188 at Euston and if needed then the 59 at Russel Square.
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Post by greg on Apr 11, 2020 21:30:28 GMT
I did once think about the 168 going to Camberwell Green to partially replace the 68 and leave the 468 along at a higher freq to Herne Hill and West Norwood but stand space was non existent and also there would probably need to be 2 routes to Herne Hill atleast. However I think the 68 should remain. I stand by thou that something could be removed between Elephant/Waterloo/Aldwych and Russell Square/Euston. Reasons being apart from outside the absolute rush hour there is plenty of capacity along that stretch (remember before 1986 the 1, 59, 168 and 243 were not running along there. The 59 was meant to replace the 188 but didn't). I did think about the 68 maybe going to TCR and the 1 pulled out and maybe then replaced by the 199 from Waterloo/Elephant and withdrawn. Also with planned works and Aldwych, Holborn and Euston I think it's is certain tfl will remove something. The question is what would cause the least damage? I agree, I didnt think of this. The 1 and 199 merged between Waterloo and Catford? Space from route 4 rerouting as far as I know on Waterloo Road. Saves money, 68 can be rerouted to Tottenham Court Road and then leaves the 59, 91 and 168 along Russel Square. I still think it would be good for the 188 at Euston and if needed then the 59 at Russel Square. Problem though, what about the N1 and N199?? The 1 and 199 do serve some different routings, so maybe the N199 becomes the N47 again and the new merged 199 becomes route 1 and N1 remains the same. Idk much about the area, so if someone is around Bermondsey, Canada Water please explain.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 11, 2020 21:39:39 GMT
Problem would be the 1 is busy along Southwark Park road which is remote from the jubilee line and has heavy loads to get to the tube at Elephant. Putting passengers who have boarded before Canada Water may overload it.
If not the 188 could divert via Southwark Park Road and replace the 1. That would remove a route again through Holborn.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2020 22:05:46 GMT
Hi, uhm fantasy things I would or think would be good to happen. 68: Withdrawn (replaced by route 168) 168: Rerouted from Elephant & Castle and extended fo West Norwood via route 68. 188: Extended from Russel Square to King’s Cross My reasons for this, a connection from Russel Square to Kings Cross is heavily needed, and with the 59 cut to Euston doesn’t help things but I also think the 188 would of been the best route to send, with the 68 at Euston and the 59 at Russel Square, however 59 also has alot of good links and the 68 at Russel Square would also be bad so how about save money and withdraw the 68 and extend the 168 a little further. Also, it may seem the 168 will become too long which idk could be. If it is, they can withdraw north of the route between Chalk Farm and Hampstead Heath. Recently shortened route 27 can extend to Hampstead Heath via the 168 (not 24) and be nicer. The 27 route also is known to serve the nicer/expensive areas of London anyways. Please share your thoughts Re-routing the 168 over the 68 would make it too long and would seriously effect reliability not to mention there is absolutely no need to remove the 68 which is very much needed on that corridor. The 188 is also runs into the same issues as the 168 in terms of length - the 59 can patch up the link your requiring without the same reliability pressures.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2020 22:09:50 GMT
I did once think about the 168 going to Camberwell Green to partially replace the 68 and leave the 468 along at a higher freq to Herne Hill and West Norwood but stand space was non existent and also there would probably need to be 2 routes to Herne Hill atleast. However I think the 68 should remain. I stand by thou that something could be removed between Elephant/Waterloo/Aldwych and Russell Square/Euston. Reasons being apart from outside the absolute rush hour there is plenty of capacity along that stretch (remember before 1986 the 1, 59, 168 and 243 were not running along there. The 59 was meant to replace the 188 but didn't). I did think about the 68 maybe going to TCR and the 1 pulled out and maybe then replaced by the 199 from Waterloo/Elephant and withdrawn. Also with planned works and Aldwych, Holborn and Euston I think it's is certain tfl will remove something. The question is what would cause the least damage? Surely, the 188 is the most at risk if something really has to go - I certainly think the 59, 68 & 168 shouldn’t be touched given the links they provide and the 1 is quite important to the Southwark Park Road corridor so maybe that leaves the 188 being hacked back as a full withdrawal wouldn’t work at all.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 11, 2020 22:22:57 GMT
I think the 188 would fall to Elephant if there was stand space. Finding space for the 45 and 171 was a challenge. They could join the 1 and 188 together with maybe some shorts during the rush hour along Southward Park road (there was or is a journey from a school there to TCR so maybe that could become 3 or 4 journeys). The reason for that is again not popular to say but the 47, 188 and 381 is quite high for a parallel with the Jubilee line (LB-Bermondsey-CW) and there if you look at other cuts (13, 48 proposed 19) tfl are often looking to drop 3 routes down to 2).
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Post by vjaska on Apr 12, 2020 1:31:39 GMT
I think the 188 would fall to Elephant if there was stand space. Finding space for the 45 and 171 was a challenge. They could join the 1 and 188 together with maybe some shorts during the rush hour along Southward Park road (there was or is a journey from a school there to TCR so maybe that could become 3 or 4 journeys). The reason for that is again not popular to say but the 47, 188 and 381 is quite high for a parallel with the Jubilee line (LB-Bermondsey-CW) and there if you look at other cuts (13, 48 proposed 19) tfl are often looking to drop 3 routes down to 2). I agree that stand space would be problematic - maybe move the 53 as desired to stand at Lambeth Palace and terminate an extended 199 at County Hall running over the 188 with an extended 1 to North Greenwich not that I advocate cutting or removing any route in the first place.
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Post by COBO on Apr 12, 2020 1:52:16 GMT
I proposed rerouting the 23 via Lancaster Gate was to reduce the amount of routes on Edgware Road. There would be significantly more demand for the route to terminate at the end of Oxford Street, where routes like the 94, 98 & 159 are in reachable distance with 139 at Selfridges so that people can get into Central London and the West End. I said diverted via Lancaster Gate the 23 will still be going through Marble Arch. I rerouted the route to cut down the amount of routes on Edgware Road. As for the 440 and 218 in my proposal I had the two routes renumbered ie the 218 would become the 440 and the 440 became the 218 so in a way I did swap the routings of the two routes between North Acton and Acton.
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Post by COBO on Apr 12, 2020 3:27:13 GMT
I've some changes:
10: New route running betweeen Hammersmith and King's Cross via route 23 to Marble Arch and route 390 to King's Cross. To maintain links lost by route 23 and create new link between Oxford Circus and Hammersmith. 23: withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury’s and Westbourne Park. Diverted to Wembley Central via Ladbroke Grove, Harrow Road, route 18 to Harlesden, route 206 to Brent Park Tesco’s and route 92 to Wembley Central. Rerouted between Paddington and Marble Arch via route 46 to Lancaster Gate and Bayswater Road. Withdrawn between Marble Arch and Hammersmith. To maintain links lost by the 92, to assist the 18 and create new links between Wembley and Central London. 92: withdrawn between Greenford Broadway and Ealing Hospital. Withdrawn between Empire Way and St Raphael’s North. Diverted to Brent Cross via route 182. To maintain links lost by the 182 and to link Greenford with Brent Cross. 182: withdrawn between Northwick Park Hospital and Brent Cross. Diverted to Willesden Junction via Watford Road, Kenton Road, route 183 to Kingsbury Circle, Honeypot Lane, route 79 to Queensbury Station, route 114 to Stag Lane, Burnt Oak Broadway, route 32 to Staples Corner, North Circular Road, Coles Green Road, Crest Road, Tanfield Avenue, Neasden, Neasden Lane, Neasden Station, High Road, route 266 to Willesden Junction and Station Approach. To assist the 183 and to link Harlesden with West Hendon, Colindale, Queensbury, Neasden, Kenton, Northwick Park Hospital, Harrow and Wealdstone. 183: rerouted between Hendon Station and Golders Green Road via route 83 to Hendon Central Station, Hendon Way, route 186 to Brent Cross Shopping Centre and route 210 to Golders Green Road. To provide a direct link between Harrow and Brent Cross. 204: Discontinued. 210: withdrawn between Golders Green Road and Brent Cross. Rerouted to Colindale Asda via route 183 to West Hendon Broadway, Edgware Road and Capitol Way. To maintain links lost by route 183 and to link Colindale with Golders Green, Archway and Finsbury Park. 218: extended from North Acton to Wembley Stadium via route 440 to Wembley Stadium. Withdrawn between Acton and Hammersmith. Diverted to Turnham Green via route 440 to Turnham Green. Renumbered 440. To link West Acton with Wembley Stadium, Stonebridge Park, Central Middlesex Hospital and Turnham Green. 223: Discontinued. 224: Withdrawn between Harlesden Station and St Rapehael's. Diverted to Maida Hill via route 228 to Shepherd's Bush, route 316 to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's and routw 228 to Maida Hill. Extended from Alperton Sainsbury's to Medway Estate via route 297 to Teignmouth Gardens and route E5 to Medway Estate. To link Perivale with Harlesden, Central Middlesex Hospital and Ladbroke Grove. 228: Discontinued. 316: Rerouted between Shepherd's Bush and Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's via route 228 to Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's. Converted to double deck. The purpose of this is so that the 316 can be converted to double deck. 390: Rerouted between Tottenham Court Road and Euston via route 14 to Russell Square and route 59 to King's Cross. To Link Oxford Street with Oxford Street. 392: new route running between Ealing Broadway and Harrow via The Broadway, route 483 to Ealing Hospital, route 92 to Sudbury Hill, Greenford Road, Harrow Road, Sudbury Court Drive, Watford Road and route 483 to Harrow. To maintain links lost by the 92 and to link North Greenford with Ealing Broadway. 395: Discontinued. 398: withdrawn between South Harrow and Wood End. 440: withdrawn between Acton and Turnham Green. Diverted to Hammersmith via route 218 to Hammersmith. Rerouted between North Acton and Central Middlesex Hospital via route 266 to Willesden Junction and route 228 to Central Middlesex Hospital. Withdrawn between Harrow Road and Wembley Stadium. Diverted to Harrow via route 18 to Sudbury and route 182 to Harrow. Renumbered 218 and converted to double deck. To link Harrow and Wembley with Acton and Hammersmith. 452: withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's and Kensal Rise. Diverted to Westbourne Park via route 23. To maintain links lost by route 23. 487: Withdrawn between Harlesden and Willesden Junction. Diverted to Brent Park Tesco's via Brentfield Road, Drury Way, double run via Besant Way and Pitfield Way for St Raphael's Estate, Drury Way and route 206 to Brent Park Tesco's. To link Brent Park with South Harrow. H9/H10: Dicontinued. H12: Extended from South Harrow to Northwick Park Hospital via route H9. To maintain links lost by the H9/H12. H14: extended from Northwick Park Hospital to Neasden via route 483 to North Wembley and 245 to Neasden. To maintain links lost by 182. H15: New route running between Harrow and Wood End via route 223 to Wembley, Wembley High Road, Ranelagh Road, Chaplin Road, Harrow Road, Sudbury Hill, Clementine Churchill Hospital, London Road, Roxeth Hill, route 258 to South Harrow and route 398 to Wood End. To link South Harrow with Wembley. H16: New route running between Northwick Park Hospital and Westway Cross via route H9 to South Harrow, route 398 to Northolt Road and route 395 to Westway Cross. To link Northolt with Rayners and Northwick Park Hospital. H17: Extended from Wembley Central to Edgware via route 204 to Edgware. To link Sudbury Hill with Edgware and Kingsbury. Converted to double deck. N33: Extended from Hammersmith to King's Cross via route 23 to Marble Arch, Oxford Street and route 390 to Oxford Circus. Converted to double deck. To link Fulwell with King's Cross at night.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 12, 2020 6:11:26 GMT
Hi, uhm fantasy things I would or think would be good to happen. 68: Withdrawn (replaced by route 168) 168: Rerouted from Elephant & Castle and extended fo West Norwood via route 68. 188: Extended from Russel Square to King’s Cross My reasons for this, a connection from Russel Square to Kings Cross is heavily needed, and with the 59 cut to Euston doesn’t help things but I also think the 188 would of been the best route to send, with the 68 at Euston and the 59 at Russel Square, however 59 also has alot of good links and the 68 at Russel Square would also be bad so how about save money and withdraw the 68 and extend the 168 a little further. Also, it may seem the 168 will become too long which idk could be. If it is, they can withdraw north of the route between Chalk Farm and Hampstead Heath. Recently shortened route 27 can extend to Hampstead Heath via the 168 (not 24) and be nicer. The 27 route also is known to serve the nicer/expensive areas of London anyways. Please share your thoughts I could quite conceivably see the 1 and 168 merged into one route and maybe curtailed at Camden Town with the 27 extended to Hampstead Heath as you suggested and maybe the 172 extended to Tottenham Court Road.
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Post by greenboy on Apr 12, 2020 6:28:54 GMT
Route 436: Withdrawn between Battersea Park & Vauxhall and rerouted to Whitehall, Horse Guards via Route 77 to County Hall and route 453 to Whitehall. New links created: Giving Lewisham a link to the west end. Connects New Cross to Trafalgar Square, Westminster and Lambeth Bridge. Gives Lambeth Palace a link to near Trafalgar Square. I think this would be a better option than Battersea Park and could bring patronage. Thoughts? I've often wondered about swapping the southern termini of the 21 and 453 to give Lewisham a direct link to Westminster and the West End.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 12, 2020 6:45:46 GMT
I don't think it's impossible to have a route from Hampstead Heath to Canada water. Both are in zone 2 and journey time would be shorter then the 88 plus others. The 47 alone is given as 85 mins and the 55 as 97 mins.
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